Match psychology

ICEMAN

Hey everyone,
Last night I was watching the Ric Flair DVD, more specifically his match with Steamboat from WrestleWar '89. One thing struck me in particular that I would like to see WWE adopt to how they plan out a match:

In the first 15 minutes of the match, there was ONE pinfall attempt. Steamboat and Flair didn't insult the fans' intelligence by going for a pin after every offensive move. Steamboat spent a good 6-8 minutes working on Flair's arm, and JR did a good job of selling that Steamboat was doing this to soften Flair up for his chicken-wing submission. They wrestled and the fans were into it. It seems silly to me that in a main event match in today's WWE, there is always a pinfall attempt within the first 5 minutes. Everyone knows there is no way the match is going to end, so why bother? That's why the "2" chants have started up, because no one takes a near fall seriously anymore. But, in the Steamboat-Flair match, you were into each near fall because there was a chance the match could end, since the two had wrestled for a decent amount of time.

WWE would be wise to incorporate this into their bigger matches, and I feel the fans would be into the action more. Let the guys wear each other down for a time, then after you have established a good flow and story to the match, throw in a near fall. I guarantee the fans will be along for the ride by then.

It seems WWE booking these days is all about false-finishes. That worked great from 1998-2001, but it's 2004 and they still do basically the same type of ending for each big match.

I'd like to hear what you guys think about this.
-Djwlfpack

Boz

Always thought the same thing. I think it makes for a much more exciting match.

Dr. Giganto

I think Tazz gives a good cover-up explanation as to why there would be a cover after simple offensive moves. He mentions a lot of times that it takes a lot of energy to push a 250 pound man off of you, and that its part of wearing down your opponent. I dont think thats actually a part of the psychology of the match, i just thought it was interesting how Tazz worked it into the match pyschology

The thing is, we as fans know we're not gonna see a pin until we see at least one finisher, so the early pinfalls are pretty useless. Its got to the point where the finisher replaced the pin as the most important part of the wrestling match. Whereas previously it was a big deal to kick out of a pin attempt, its now a big deal to counter a finisher. the actual pin-count is merely academic

Steveo

Match pshychology has all but dissapeared out of the business these days. You couldn't have a match like Steamboat/Flair anymore cause it has to be fast paced and exciting. If you had the same match today the crowd would be chanting boring 10 minutes into the match. It really is not fair. There is also no one today who could keep a match like that watchable. The days of good long epic 45 minute bouts are over. HHH and HBK proved that last Sunday in biggest snorefest ever on PPV.

Miakal

That's simply because Vince destroyed the image of mainstream wrestling.


Go to Japan or an indy show and the image remains the same as it once was.

Steveo

Vince did a lot of bad things to wrestling. I wonder if the good he has done outwieghs the bad?

Dr. Giganto

this would be an interesting topic for a new thread. but i'm too lazy to start a new one, so i'll just answer here

I think Vince has done much more good than harm. Here are some of the reasons:

Money: Vince has made so much money over the years, he's obviously putting out a product that people want to see. He wouldnt have been able to survive so long and be so prosperous if he "ruined" wrestling. Plus, he's made it possible for guys like the Rock, Foley, Austin, and HHH to bring in a million dollars a year, something that wrestlers could only dream about before the WWF. so, he's made wrestling more prosperous for "the boys"

Mainstream acceptance: Hulk Hogan was an icon. He appeared in movies, hosted SNL and was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. The Rock is a bonafide Hollywood celebrity. HHH and Kevin Nash have appeared or will appear in blockbuster movies. Mick Foley has written several successful books, including a childrens book. Jesse Ventura was Governor of Minnesota. None of this would be possible without Vince changing the perception of wrestlers from big jacked up circus freaks to more "human" people.

Adapted with the times: In the past 20 years, our society has changed a lot. Vince changed his product to adapt. A major reason for this was the fact that Bischoff and Heyman were even more ahead of their times, and Vince was forced to adapt to stay alive. but without changing to a more intense (for lack of a better word) atmosphere, I could see wrestling falling to the wayside. He provided a product that his evolving fanbase wanted to see, and purists still have Japan and the indies (like Miakal mentioned) to see "old-school" professional wrestling

Blitzkrieg

I watched that match from Wreslewar '89 recently, and it was a damn good match. I'm not a big fan of a ton of rest holds, but Flair and Steamboat were awesome. There was a lot of action for those days and I would love to see a lot more matches nowadays that make as much sense as that match did from beginning to end. That's why I was a big fan of Bret Hart and am a big fan of Angle and Benoit today. I'm sick of these so-called monsters (Tyson Tomko) , who can't do sh*t in the ring.

ICEMAN

The number of quality workers is low in WWE right now. You have Eddy, Benoit, Angle (when he wrestles), Michaels, Triple H (when he's motivated) and that's about it. Jericho is good, but not great. Edge and Orton are OK, they still need more seasoning, and the rest of the guys aren't capable of pulling off a great match unless they wrestle someone mentioned above. I didn't list the cruiserweights b/c most of us know they can work, they just aren't given the opportunity to do so.
-Djwlfpack