Return of kayfabe ? - Wrestling Forums : WWE, TNA, ECW, E-Fed, Wrestlemania, Live Wrestling Streams

kindred · 05-13-2004, 12:21 PM

the wwe is supposedly trying to edge its way back into another era of kayfabe. is this going to work ? can they double bluff and create a type of POST POST modernistic wrestling ? lets hear it

Drunksader · 05-13-2004, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindred

the wwe is supposedly trying to edge its way back into another era of kayfabe. is this going to work ? can they double bluff and create a type of POST POST modernistic wrestling ? lets hear it

What the hell does kayfabe exactly mean, anyway?

Creature of the Night · 05-13-2004, 01:49 PM

Kayfabe is keeping to the character of your wrestling persona, at least thats my interpretation of it :$

3D · 05-13-2004, 04:10 PM

Essentially, yes.

It's just acting like your character constantly, as if wrestling is real. The idea is to act as if wrestling is real. "Breaking kayfabe" is just letting on that wrestling is fake, so "Kayfabe" is portraying the illusion as truth.

The Foxman · 05-13-2004, 05:25 PM

Kayfabe is basically "pretending it's real in front of the marks." A wrestler keeping kayfabe will act like his character around outsiders, even the press. Workers will sell storyline injuries in public (in theory, Kurt Angle will have to use his wheelchair in public.) Heels will act like creeps in interviews and articles, on-screen couples will travel together, and suchforth.

Will it work? In some ways, it already is. Internet marks are already accustomed to associating their like/dislike for the person behind the character with their like/dislike for the character (ie, Bob Holly is a mean mean man, so I don't like Hardcore Holly.) For all their carping, they'll watch the shows, often to see their hated "real-life jerk" lose a match to one of their pet midcarders who, in their eyes, the "real-life jerk" has actually held down. When a man like Bradshaw cuts a heel promo in his article, or Booker T acts like an arrogant jerk on Byte This, he is creating a negative image in the smark's mind.

It'll work on those internet marks who mix (why, I cannot say) their perception of a character with the wrestler who plays him. If you hate John Layfield the man, you'll hate JBL the character, right?

But the practice isn't as effective on fans who remain objective and just enjoy seeing their favorite characters do what they do.

It doesn't, and you'll excuse my hubris, work on me. :-)

Now, I can only speak for myself, but I see wrestling as just another form of entertainment, where I don't so much "root" for anyone as I just want to see compelling characters involved in a compelling story, very preferrably with good wrestling to back it up. It's just like when I watch a show like Deadwood. Ian McShane's character Al Swaringen, is a villain, but he's my favorite part of the show because he's so entertaining, such a good bad guy. Likewise, an actor's personality doesn't affect my opinion of his character. I can safely say Vin Diesel is an arrogant shithead, but I still liked his protagonists in Pitch Black and the Fast and the Furious.

Another problem with the back-to-kayfabe thing is it's like that Looney Tunes episode where the guy blows himself up for a laugh. "It's a neat trick, but I can only do it once." Pandora's box is open and has been for some time. WWE can't just shut the lid and expect people to pretend what they see on TV is real, when they know it isn't. People appreciate wrestling for different reasons now than they did when WWE started up.

Now perhaps what WWE is trying to do is raise a new generation of wrestling fans. That may be why they're starting their Sunday morning show up again. Perhaps they expect children to be fooled by kayfabe, and for adults once again to not tell them it's all fake, just as any adults who first introduced the current generation to wrestling knew wrestling was staged, but didn't "kill Santa Clause." In theory, these kids will grow up the same way we did, and then WWE will stop the kayfabe thing.

But Kayfabe is also very difficult to maintain. It's stressful to always be "on" when you're in public, and not everyone has that kind of performer's stamina. Do you really think Kurt Angle would want to be wheeled around everywhere he goes? (Not that I think WWE will take it that far.) I can't imagine it's fun for a nice guy like Booker T to act like a creep ALL the time. And it's just a negative, cheesy thing to do to trick people into disliking the actor so they'll dislike the character. It's "cheating."

And those people who can keep it up? Well, folks, Kayfabe is the reason behind the Bret Harts, Shawn Michaelses (of old) and Hulk Hogans and... shudder... Ultimate Warriors. When a guy has to play his character 24/7, the line begins to blur between the man and the part. And then you have actors taking it as a personal insult when their character loses or is booed and developing all sorts of nasty, Bret Hart-ish complexes. Can you imagine this: "Mr. Jackson? Sean Bean is referring to himself as 'Boromir' and refuses to let his character fall prey to the Ring and die. He's no-selling the ork arrows!" Because that's what Kayfabe leads to.

It also leads to a need to "protect" kayfabe. Like Ric Flair being rude to the interviewer who DARED to use the word face. That's obnoxious behavior. Or maybe we'll go back to the old days, when wrestling trainers would main new recruits to show people wrestling was "real." That'd be a GAS, huh?

Where is this essay going, Foxman? you may ask. Well the Foxman might answer Kayfabe is not the solution to any problems WWE may be facing. People just don't think wrestling's real any more, and they probably won't ever think it again. What people want from wrestling is a GOOD SHOW, the same thing they want from a movie, play or comic book or any other form of narrative media. Maybe a new generation of kids will grow up thinking it's real. But that's condescending. Children should be taught to appreciate good stories, not believe everything they see on TV. If wrestling starts pretending to be for-realsies again, it'll just help marginalize the medium as a silly "side-show" instead of making progress toward being accepted as a legitimate form of entertainment and American pop culture.

Going back to Kayfabe is a reactionary measure. I'm a liberal. Skroo the past! Give me my better tomorrow!

(And vote John Bradshaw Layfield for President!)

DLman91 · 05-17-2004, 07:19 PM

Foxman, good post. You covered basically everything I wanted to say.

Kayfabe worked in the 80s because it was mainly just WRESTLING that the people saw. Sure there would be backstage attacks and such, but it all looked as real as it could. Once wrestling got into the "Russofixtions" and Kane shooting lightning bolts at cameramen, it became a TV show instead of a sports show.

You're not going to be able to recapture the "believeabilty" of the audience by convincing them something is real. I think the only way to do anything is to book "realistic" angles. Example, don't make Booker T go to voodoo women for help with the Undertaker. People got into the Mick Foley-Randy Orton angle because it was realistic. An arrogant newcomer thinks he can take on the legends we love....kick his ass Foley!! Markout value.

I think it's all about "marking out" now, no more kayfabe. You knew it was fake sure...but when Austin drove that zamboni to the ring and jumped over the cops to get to McMahon, everyone went crazy. They can get there, it's just a matter of when they "get it"

Danny Diamond · 05-17-2004, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Foxman

Now perhaps what WWE is trying to do is raise a new generation of wrestling fans. That may be why they're starting their Sunday morning show up again. Perhaps they expect children to be fooled by kayfabe, and for adults once again to not tell them it's all fake, just as any adults who first introduced the current generation to wrestling knew wrestling was staged, but didn't "kill Santa Clause." In theory, these kids will grow up the same way we did, and then WWE will stop the kayfabe thing.

EXCELLENT post Foxman !!! Wow !

I think this was the best point about kayfabe right here. This new Sunday show certainly looks like they are trying to appeal to kids again. Its been forever since they geared it towards them.

I remember the days when WWE had the saturday morning show. Man, they had all the superstars squashing jobbers EVERY week. But we watched it and loved it. The WWE could NEVER get away with that ever again. But the return of kayfabe could work for kids.

For example if Triple H was on Nickelodeon he would act like the serious badass heel. But if he were on say, Howard Stern he could act however he wanted. Because kids shouldn't be listening to Stern.

I realize that this was a complete ramble but there it is.

kindred · 05-17-2004, 08:23 PM

Nice post foxman

I think if you look at what the wwe is selling now it works on different levels. The people who are never going to believe its not a work have characters like eddie guerrero benoit and angle to appreciate. Good solid technical wrestlers who can piece a fantastic technical match together and have characters that a re so close to the bone it makes you wince. Eddie did have drug trouble but now he is clean and we as possibly the harshest fans and critics cannot argue with that character or his performance in the ring , hence he has the belt.

New and younger fans who still want to see the entertainment in sports entertainment have got mordecai and rico and all the rest so the wrestlers who catch their eyes are a little more colourful than your average ones. they will only get a belt once they have toned down their acts because the diehard fans will not stand for a character title.

Vince gave his wrestlers gimmicks so that instead of a lonly single man buying a ticket and a beer he got a family buying four tickets beer for dad t shirts for the kids etc..
That is what i feel he wantshis product to resemble again somthing for everyone. Even the amount of t and a has been toned so that a previously untapped vein can be exploited. I think the female division is the srtongest its been in years. Attitude died when ecw did the public urge for realism is dead and i think vince has sussed this and is going to angle wwe to family again.

Dr. Giganto · 05-17-2004, 09:47 PM

good post, kindred, i agree totally. you have to diversify your product, like a stock portfolio...you cant have just great technical wrestlers with no character, or just over the top characters, or just cruiserweights, or just brawlers. its good to have a eclectic mix of characters, which i think WWE is moving towards