Brock Lesnar

Spinoff360

Dusk HHH had the title for one month and then lost it to the has been Hulk Hogan. Well IMO never was been because he has always sucked but whatever. I really don't see how you get your facts since I have not seen any reports that HHH and Hogan are best friends ::sleepy::



Edited By Spinoff90 on May 25 2003 at 21:44

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3D

ECS - First things first, I never said it was fact that HHH is in these meetings. My point was that more circumstancial evidence points to HHH being in these meetings. If you read what I wrote properly...

[quote:post_uid0]Again, I can't be sure to say if either have or have not been in meetings[/quote:post_uid0]

Secondly, I can take your viewpoint on HHH losing a lot may damage him. However, I think what annoys people most is the fact he used to lose to anyone he was asked to lose to. Now it seems as if his losses are as rare as Brock's. Not only that, but Brock has been in the WWE for about a year. HHH is a veteran, a completely established superstar. Losses here and there wouldn't damage him at all really. Losing the IC title to Jeff Hardy ages ago didn't damage him, neither did a loss to The Brawler or Funaki or Taka Michinoku or whoever it was.

[quote:post_uid0]Dusk HHH had the title for one month and then lost it to the has been Hulk Hogan. Well IMO never was been because he has always sucked but whatever. I really don't see how you get your facts since I have not seen any reports that HHH and Hogan are best friends [/quote:post_uid0]

Spinoff, this happened at a time when both brands were non-exclusive, and there was only one World Title. People accuse HHH of almost running Raw (Which he almost seems to touch upon in promos) to his own gains so he can keep the title and stay on top.

Since September, Triple H has only dropped the title to HBK before getting it back a month later. Why bother dropping it? Some may argue that this was to make HHH seem penetrable, and not always working his politics, a "smoke-screen", if you will. But then why not let HBK lose it to Jericho / Booker T/ RVD / Kane or another contender? Some think Triple H is trying to hold down the new talent so he can stay on top.

This friendship thing also seems to be obvious as HHH has only had two really high profile feuds since being handled the title - Shawn Michaels (Friend) and Kevin Nash (Friend). It also seems inevitable that HHH will lose the title to Nash at Bad Blood. This would only seem to prove further HHH's friendship title droppings. If he were to get the title back off of Nash if he loses to him, then that would incriminate HHH further. Once again, this isn't the gospel truth, but it's a viewpoint of many wrestling fans.



Edited By 3D. on May 26 2003 at 06:53

3D. Wrestling Clique, Monksdiner, JimmyVan and KnowYourNews' Crafty Old Veteran.

Dusk

[quote:post_uid0="3D."][quote:post_uid0]Dusk HHH had the title for one month and then lost it to the has been Hulk Hogan. Well IMO never was been because he has always sucked but whatever. I really don't see how you get your facts since I have not seen any reports that HHH and Hogan are best friends [/quote:post_uid0]

Spinoff, this happened at a time when both brands were non-exclusive, and there was only one World Title. People accuse HHH of almost running Raw (Which he almost seems to touch upon in promos) to his own gains so he can keep the title and stay on top.

Since September, Triple H has only dropped the title to HBK before getting it back a month later. Why bother dropping it? Some may argue that this was to make HHH seem penetrable, and not always working his politics, a "smoke-screen", if you will. But then why not let HBK lose it to Jericho / Booker T/ RVD / Kane or another contender? Some think Triple H is trying to hold down the new talent so he can stay on top.

This friendship thing also seems to be obvious as HHH has only had two really high profile feuds since being handled the title - Shawn Michaels (Friend) and Kevin Nash (Friend). It also seems inevitable that HHH will lose the title to Nash at Bad Blood. This would only seem to prove further HHH's friendship title droppings. If he were to get the title back off of Nash if he loses to him, then that would incriminate HHH further. Once again, this isn't the gospel truth, but it's a viewpoint of many wrestling fans.[/quote:post_uid0]
TRUE DAT!

and 3d... The NEW Woooo is quite accaptable.. thank you ::

3D

[quote:post_uid0="Dusk"]and 3d... The NEW Woooo is quite accaptable.. thank you ::[/quote:post_uid0]
Glad ya noticed. ::miakal:: <--- Miakal? Clever.. Not. :p

3D. Wrestling Clique, Monksdiner, JimmyVan and KnowYourNews' Crafty Old Veteran.

Drunksader

Let's put an end to this right here -

HHH is the franchise on RAW - if the ratings suffer, he's the one who takes the blame, just as he takes the credit if they soar. Austin was held accountable in the same way back in his heyday.

Regardless of whatever "stroke" HHH has, if he can't turn out solid matches - regardless of what ECS, the writers don't book the in-ring action, just the storylines - then he's got to drop the belt to someone that can.

You can't defend bad ratings, ECS, and when the ship goes down the captain goes down with it - I think it's time to ship HHH over to Smackdown and give someone else the ball on RAW.

Miakal

A loss for Brock and a loss for Triple H would mean two different things. Triple H has had a long and strong career in the WWE. He's defeated everyone there is to defeat.

Brock is still relatively young when it comes to wrestling. He's needed more time to develope himself and to finally get over with the crowd. I will admit, however, that he can start losing at anytime. Still, a Triple H comparison isn't exactly vaild...in my opinion.

Drunksader

Brock was built on the Goldberg model - an awesome specimen who people don't expect to lose, a complete monster. HHH wasn't booked that way throughout his career -he found himself staring up at the lights a bunch of times as he was maturing. As his career has progressed, he's been booked as the "Cerebral Assassin" - a guy who has power but doesn't run roughshod over anyone, a guy who relies on cheating more than he does in-ring talent.

Due to HHH's long title reign and marquee status, however, it's going to be quite a surprise (well, at least theoretically), when he loses. But that won't negatively impact his position in the food chain, since he's been at the top for several years and is always considered a contender for the strap.

Brock has been rocketed into the spotlight, with a record of umpteen hundred wins and like 2 losses, for a reason - believability. Who the hell is going to beat him? The guy is a physical freak, but not like Steiner, who's more veiny than he is huge, not to mention Brock's stunning level of agility for a guy his size. If Brock was to lose to a Booker T, for instance, it'd deflate his push, whereas if HHH dropped the belt to Booker, the impact wouldn't nearly be the same - we've seen HHH pinned before, especially when the belt isn't on the line ;)

My problem w/Brock is simply this - when is he going to lose, and how is it going to fit into his gimmick? Are we looking at a guy who's going to lose about a match every year and a half? How is this going to be sustainable? Sure, he's a monster and should run roughshod over everyone, but won't that get stale as well? Then again, 'berg did it for how long and people ate it up, so go figure. But what happens when Brock turns 35 and isn't the biggest fish in the pond? Losses are going to hurt him a lot more than they hurt a guy like HHH, you know. Just a thought.

Miakal

Good point my mother loving friend.

I think Brock can survive a loss because he is a great wrestler. Imagine a Chris Jericho Vs. Brock feud. A long fought match between the two with Jericho cheating, and winning. Would that hurt Brocks career? No, I don't think so.

I think Brock being unbeatable is just part of the package. He can't lose because he is too big. Andre rarely lost. Fans never tired of it. I don't think they'll tire of Brock's record either.

eye cannt spel

Good point, However I feel Its very valid to compare HHH and Brock. Brock is newer than HHH, But hes already Built, And losein some wouldnt hurt him either. HHH IS ALL ABOUT been the best, its his Gimmick, You know, He does anything to keep the title, Its his life etc, It would bring him down a notch if he was to lose it to anyone, Whoever takes it HAS to look stronger,bigger and better than Him. And i hope its not nash, but hes been built as such...

Please dont compare Brock to Goldberg, That is the LAST thing we need is another Goldberg. Goldberg is so boring, This storyline with Y2J could be very interresting, but when you throw goldy in it, I lose all interest.

Drunksader

I wasn't comparing Brock to Goldberg, but rather that he's built on the "Goldberg Model" - he started off as a monster who squashed people at random and has developed into a dominating force that pretty much beats down whoever he faces, or at least comes out on top.

As for HHH being "The Game" and having losing take him down a peg, I don't get it. He's lost before. It didn't tarnish his image. Losing doesn't hurt his gimmick, if anything it gives him something to strive for - remember his whole angle where all he talked about was how much he loved the WWF title and would do anything to get it? That he lived for it, breathed for it, etc? You couldn't have booked that angle correctly if you already had HHH as champion - at least it wouldn't have been as good entertainment, since his maniacal climb to gain the title saw him lie and cheat and whack people w/sledgehammers to get it. Even when he loses, like against HBK, he comes back and crushes his opponents - losing is part of HHH's gimmick that needs to be fleshed out more. Where's the rage that he's shown whenever he loses the belt? Where's the all-consuming lust he shows for it when he doesn't have it? What you don't get, ECS, is that losing, at least in HHH's case, doesn't tarnish his character as much as it enhances it b/c it allows us to see another side of him - a desparate man looking to reclaim his image.

Miakel - note that when you mentioned Brock losing, you had Jericho cheating to win. That's not a clean job, which is more along the lines of what I was talking about. But regardless, it underscores the proper way to book a Brock loss - throw the kitchen sink at him. 6 pedigrees performed in succession would do the job, as would about 5 tombstones, or a massive spot in which he goes flying through the ring or something. Whatever the case, I think we can all agree that Brock would need to be taken out either via cheating or a really excessive clean job, whereas HHH CAN lose clean and not have it ruin his character, or at least damage it.