Tommy Platinum

Now I am probably going to come across as a typica TNA hater here, but that is not my intention at all. I know what you are thinking. 'So Joe finally wins the title and you are still complaining'. Don't get me wrong, I am delighted that Samoa Joe is TNA Champion, and hopefully this ushers in a new era for the company with the young guys getting their due and guys like Sting and Angle eventually being phased out of the title scene. Joe winning is a huge plus for the company and I will be more interested in the product now as I assess Joe's reign and how he handles himself as World Champion of a mainstream wrestling company.

Now, onto the bad, and the reason I have made this thread. Firstly, there is the question of timing. Many are saying that TNA have missed the boat with Joe, and that this title win would have done a lot more for him, and seemed like a bigger deal, had he won it a few months ago. I am personally undecided, because I believe putting off big wins can make it seem all the more special when it happens. Despite that, his victory didn't quite get the reaction I expected, so maybe TNA should indeed have put the belt on him earlier.

My criticism is more to do with the manner of his victory. Lockdown should have been all about Joe, and yet we see an MMA style match, which is something Angle is looking to get more involved in, with Angle wearing special MMA style attire. Sure, you could argue that TNA were just putting over the fact that Joe defeated Angle at his own game, but I personally feel it was too much about Angle and not enough about Joe. Even if this criticism is unfounded, few would argue that an MMA style match in a cage is a fitting environment for what should be such a big moment. How about having Joe win in a normal WRESTLING match? The crowd were not that into the match for long periods. This is a wrestling company, and fans would rather see Joe's big moment come in a wrestling match. Yes, I know there wasn't much difference, but the whole MMA thing didn't interest me at all, and kind of turned me off the match. The fact that it was inside a cage made it seem less of a big deal too.

Then there was the fact that the match itself really wasn't anything special. Sure, this comes down to opinion, but what should be such a big moment for Joe and TNA should come in a classic match. This, in my opinion, was nothing more than decent, partly due to the MMA stip which I imagine was simply to draw a few MMA fans into the product (as well as stacking the odds against Joe somewhat). I have yet to hear anyone say this match was great. It could and should have been.

I can't help but thinking Bound for Glory would have been a far more appropraite setting for Joe to finally take his place at the top of the company. Instead, they had Angle lose the belt to Sting only to win it back immediately. Joe's moment was shunned to Lockdown, and to be honest it was a bit of an anticlimax.

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KenTheKiller

I agree completely. I expect Suffy, Dmac, DOE, etc. to disagree and feel the add of the MMA style was brilliant or something, but as a non-avid MMA viewer, it cheapened the win. Yes, MMA is cool and great. I like watching it on occasion. But this is professional wrestling which is much more about theatrics than actual fighting. Even more so, it looked bad in my mind, a worked MMA match.

Also the time thing is brought up. Everyone knew he was going to win it. I am happy but did I mark like a motherfucker? No. Would I have a year ago or six months ago? Definitely. Between losing interest in the TNA product as a whole, I lost major interest in Joe becoming the champion.

And lastly, the quality of the match was bad. As Tom said, I want a classic match. Don't get me wrong, it was GOOD. But the main event of the second biggest PPV in your company shouldn't be good. It should be great. On top of that, it was boring for the first half (or so I'm told, I only watched the second half) and even that was OK. The cage isn't an issue to me, but the style and dullness of the match hurt it dramatically.

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Flip

Bound for Glory is way too far way though. It was obvious that Joe was the only man who could beat Angle for the title this time around. I couldn't see Angle getting a year long title reign. Him winning at Lockdown will also get Angle out of the title scene so hopefully he can start a program with AJ.

I get what your saying with the MMA style match. Their are cons too, but their are pro's also. Like you said, Joe beat Angle in his type of match. I think that is a huge deal and it puts Joe over even more. He didn't just beat Angle for the World Title, but he beat Angle in his own game. It shows that he is a serious threat, and his title reign can be even stronger.
I haven't seen the match, but I heard that it was great. Definetly above descent. The Angle/Joe feud has gone on and off for over a year and Joe goes over. Angle broke Joe's undefeated streak, and Joe took the title away from him. The two have had great matches with eachother, and from what I've heard, it seems like the match served him justice.

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Tommy Platinum

I meant he should have won it back at Bound for Glory last year. Like I said, they missed the boat slightly because they insist on putting Sting in every main event.

Well in my opinion it was worse than any match in their trilogy when Angle first joined. It was decent-good but certainly not at the level required for a 2nd biggest PPV main event with Joe going over in a moment like this.

Good points about the benefits of an MMA style match, but I personally would have preferred a straight up wrestling match. I feel that, while Joe beating Angle at his own game was good, TNA were partly just trying to tap into that MMA market.

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KenTheKiller

Since when is MMA Kurt Angle's type of match?
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Tommy Platinum

I said that because I associate Kurt with MMA now. He wants to get into MMA and a lot of people know that, plus it suits his intense gimmick.

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Butoden

When the Angle-Joe match was up at LockDown it was a completly different kind of energy in the arena and it was also a completly different match, it was kinda like a scripted MMA match but with pro wrestling moves, or like a shoot match as some say. Well I think that was really cool and it looked more important. Too bad there was the stipulation of Joe wins or leaves TNA, because that was pretty much a spoiler. Anyhow it is cool that Samoa Joe won the belt and he has stated in interviews that it is okay that he won it now and not sooner because sooner he wasn't that much of a 'character' yet and he has developped that in the last year and all that I am sure you've read it too soooo.. Sure TNA could do another Joe vs Angle match like they did a year ago but they're trying new things and aren't afraid to try it with their main event, it seems this one's got a mixed reaction so we'll see if they will do it again.

-3:16-

The timing was right off the ball with this, there really isn't a better place at winning the title at the company's grandest PPV of the year in the main event, it shows this is what the company is all about, and if Joe was to win it then, it would just embellish how serious TNA is on Joe being the corderstone of the company, and would prove he's better than anyone else on the roster, and to go over Angle, would make him just immensly over.

Aside from the timing, there is a positive of Joe winning the World title. You have all the stacks against him, the fact that his life depends on this one match, where he goes against the devil himself, at his own game (MMA), the vignettes leading up to the bout couldn't have been any more epic, you have Joe, the underdog, going through all this intense training, the buildup to the bout was just fantastic, the storyline behind was Samoa Joe being sick of the politics, and just going out there and proving to the world he rightfully deserves his top spot. The match itself wasn't that great for its first half, but things picked up near the end, and it turned out to be a very good match to say the least.

Though a win at Bound for Glory would have been better, the fact that all this stuff has happened in between, the long hype, has in fact, helped him, as finally Joe gets the gold, with the politics of the recent months it shows he's above it all and kayfably clearly the best on the roster.