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Thread: Random Wrestling Talk

  1. #3861
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    I think the HHH/Booker match is a bit underrated too, but is obviously more remembered for the angle and the finish so it understandably has a bad rep.

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  2. #3862

    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    It's more of a post deserving of the Unpopular Wrestling Opinions thread, but Triple H going over at Wrestlemania was the right move. Booker T was a nothing midcarder that hadn't done anything of note as a singles wrestler since...fighting Steve Austin in a grocery store? Now the guy who didn't even have anything going to be booked at No Way Out is going to win the WHT at Wrestlemania? Yeah, right. Is the racist winning an appealing way to end a program? Well, no, but the program wasn't Booker T vs Triple H. It was Triple H vs Raw. What kind of comeuppance would it be had Triple H just lost after a week or two of saying racist things? Instead, racist Hunter winning a battle is part of the war that eventually led to him being conquered by Goldberg.

    There's plenty of things to complain about when it comes to Triple H, especially in 2003, but beating a midcarder at the biggest show of the year isn't one of them.

  3. #3863

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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    Does anyone else have a certain favorite "aesthetic" related to a promotion or time period? For example, I really love mid-late 90s WCW. I love the look of their sets for TV and PPV, their pyro, their ring designs, the lights over the ring, the announce position, the camera work, the whole deal. There's something about the way the shows look that just works for me. Another that comes to mind for me is mid-2000s TNA with the six sided ring and the two entrance tunnels. Loved that period.

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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    Still WCW but early 90s. It has the perfect mix of being very basic but trying to be flashy at the same time. Love having the announcers at ring side with interviewers/Announcers near the entrance to explain what happened or interview people (Like Bischoff, Missy Hyatt or Tony Schiavone would do). I like the entrance ramp to the ring. Stuff like that.

  5. #3865
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    I've got a soft spot for the TNA two tunnels, 6 sided ring too. Completely succeeded in creating a whole different feel to what WWE were doing at the time.

    Shout out to the first two Smackdown sets as well.

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  6. #3866
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    WCW Saturday Night when it was reduced to the secondary show. The smaller audience felt more intimate. Plus I liked the opening steel doors.

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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    Random findings from selling wrestling DVD's in eBay.

    Indy stuff sells FAST. And for a good price too, still usually getting about £10 per show for peak CHIKARA/PWG stuff, which for DVD in the streaming era is bloody good.

    What hasn't sold and surprises me, is the Chris Benoit WWE DVD. Granted, there's the subject matter, but considering WWE stopped production the moment the incident happened and it's unlikely to be seen on the Network any time soon I thought it'd have at least SOME value.

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  8. #3868

    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    I fell into a rabbit hole on Youtube watching various shoot interview clips with Al Snow from Hannibal TV. To some degree, it reminds me of the criticisms of the Raven shoots where he comes across as so knowledgeable, but you rarely saw that knowledge put into action. Some of his stances, such as fans not able to truly evaluate a good match if they don't have experience in the ring feels pretty dated and frankly BS. He tried equating being a wrestler to being a doctor, but you're in an industry built around fake fights. It's not the same thing as trying to tell your doctor what to do just because you watched every episode of House. I've heard him say similar things before, but at this stage of his career, he is actively trying not to be bitter in any sense, often putting his past self down for not realizing all of the opportunities he's had solely because he was put on TV. His chance is that every time you're put on TV, that's a chance for you to sell yourself. At the same time, I struggle to see how it's much of an opportunity when there's some wrestlers go long periods of time without interview time, proper feuds, matches are always short, and in general are never allowed to feel important. How much of an opportunity is it to work Main Event every week against the likes of EC3, Heath Slater, or The Ascension?

    Even when I wasn't agreeing with him, the shoot clips are really interesting. His story about tag team wrestling was great. What really surprised me though was the reveal that he had been wrestling since 1982. I always figured that Snow had been wrestling since around the late 80s, around the same time period as when Lance Storm and Chris Jericho debuted. Instead, Snow debuted the same year as Arn Anderson, Jim Cornette, and Road Warrior Animal. To think, he had been wrestling for sixteen years before he got over with the introduction of Head.

  9. #3869
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    I can reason with him regarding fans thinking they know whats best as to what makes a great match. Id be pretty annoyed( if i was a wrestler) if i read about how fans slander wrestlers because they dont follow some checklist. Context is everything. Kevin Owens talks about one of his earliest matches in CZW and it was a total high spot match that stole the show. Balls to the wall type match. The crowd ate it up. Thats what matters. These types of matches get comments like, "no selling", "kicking out of everything", "guys dont know what it takes to be great wrestlers"

    But comparisons to Doctors is silly.

    I cant sit there and try to checklist if a match fits into a "perfect story" match cause i just try and enjoy it. To each their own of course. Im someone who enjoys Gargano style matches.

    I also dont see why Hed have any shame over his career. Hes been on tv, hes been on ppvs, held belts , been featured in storylines. But i agree with you, how can a guy being fed to a higher wrestler ever get over with the brass or fans with little to work with.

    Crazy hes been wrestling that long.
    Last edited by indyfan; 07-31-2019 at 08:32 AM.
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  10. #3870

    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfan View Post
    I can reason with him regarding fans thinking they know whats best as to what makes a great match. Id be pretty annoyed( if i was a wrestler) if i read about how fans slander wrestlers because they dont follow some checklist. Context is everything. Kevin Owens talks about one of his earliest matches in CZW and it was a total high spot match that stole the show. Balls to the wall type match. The crowd ate it up. Thats what matters. These types of matches get comments like, "no selling", "kicking out of everything", "guys dont know what it takes to be great wrestlers"
    Fans do decide if someone is good or not though. There's obviously not set check list of what's good and what's bad, but if Fan A says that a match sucked, then that's correct for him. Some of these wrestlers are entirely dismissive towards allowing any fan to have any semblance of an opinion. It shouldn't come as a surprise that those wrestlers who express such an attitude aren't regarded as being particularly good. Of course a guy like Kevin Nash is going to have that attitude when so many people claim he's not good. Meanwhile, how many times have you heard a credited great wrestler as expressing the same thought? Unless I haven't heard about it, I've never heard a guy like Ric Flair or Bret Hart share the same though. Why would they? They're not in a spot where they have to defend themselves.

    The whole "You can't judge a match/wrestler if you've never been in the ring" is in the same ballpark as a wrestler bringing up his bank account to try and disprove a fan's opinion that he/she isn't good.

  11. #3871
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Fans do decide if someone is good or not though. There's obviously not set check list of what's good and what's bad, but if Fan A says that a match sucked, then that's correct for him. Some of these wrestlers are entirely dismissive towards allowing any fan to have any semblance of an opinion. It shouldn't come as a surprise that those wrestlers who express such an attitude aren't regarded as being particularly good. Of course a guy like Kevin Nash is going to have that attitude when so many people claim he's not good. Meanwhile, how many times have you heard a credited great wrestler as expressing the same thought? Unless I haven't heard about it, I've never heard a guy like Ric Flair or Bret Hart share the same though. Why would they? They're not in a spot where they have to defend themselves.

    The whole "You can't judge a match/wrestler if you've never been in the ring" is in the same ballpark as a wrestler bringing up his bank account to try and disprove a fan's opinion that he/she isn't good.
    Im not saying hes right. Im just saying i can understand his view.

    Gargano and Cole are perfect examples. Theres a lot of hate towards them and (lets just use this board as example of the hate) , their matches...yet theres probably way more people including HOFers showering them with compliments. Hell ive been told that i dont understand wrestling because i like high spot matches.

    But yeah you are right..its usually mediocre wrestlers like Nash who share that opinion. But id say someone like Snow is an actual great wrestler. Hes had great matches and hes trained other wrestlers for WWE
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  12. #3872
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    Its too subjective to say what is great and what isn't. What one person might consider to be the greatest thing ever, others will think absolutely sucked. And you cant really say either person is wrong, what entertains you, entertains you.

    Some people love nonsensical spot fests where they no sell everything, others love a more technical and story telling style.

    The whole you cant judge this because you're not a wrestler thing is the dumbest argument to try and make though. Going off that logic you cant judge anything unless you also professionally do it. Can guarantee all the guys like Al Snow and AJ Styles have critiqued movies, musicians, actors, chefs, cops, etc in their lives.
    Last edited by ETE; 07-31-2019 at 09:02 AM.


  13. #3873

    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfan View Post
    Hell ive been told that i dont understand wrestling because i like high spot matches.
    I don't mean this to knock you, but you also have a really combative personality. Hell, it was just a few months ago you were working an open heel gimmick on this site. Naturally, some posters are going to be more willing to call you out and be dismissive. By contrast, I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to dismiss a poster like Jimmy King, despite how positive King is about everything.

    But id say someone like Snow is an actual great wrestler. Hes had great matches and hes trained other wrestlers for WWE
    I wouldn't say he was a great worker. The most I've liked any of his matches, for pure workrate, would just be the IYH match against Flash Funk. Good match, but part of why it was good was because it was a battle of lowcarders in an opening match. Where Snow is great is with the comedic personality. When he's able to be a wacky personality, he tends to excel. Whether it's using Head in 1998-1999 or frustrating Steve Blackman in their short lived tag team in 2000, it's a hit and he gets over. When he's not playing up a comedy gimmick, even his personality tends to be boring.

  14. #3874
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I don't mean this to knock you, but you also have a really combative personality. Hell, it was just a few months ago you were working an open heel gimmick on this site. Naturally, some posters are going to be more willing to call you out and be dismissive. By contrast, I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to dismiss a poster like Jimmy King, despite how positive King is about everything.



    I wouldn't say he was a great worker. The most I've liked any of his matches, for pure workrate, would just be the IYH match against Flash Funk. Good match, but part of why it was good was because it was a battle of lowcarders in an opening match. Where Snow is great is with the comedic personality. When he's able to be a wacky personality, he tends to excel. Whether it's using Head in 1998-1999 or frustrating Steve Blackman in their short lived tag team in 2000, it's a hit and he gets over. When he's not playing up a comedy gimmick, even his personality tends to be boring.
    Guilty as charged

    That doesnt change the fact that those fans/ posters think they know more about wrestling. And thats where Snow is going with his view. Thats what I got when i read his views on fans opinions

    Im not saying Snow is amazing but hes way better than Nash in ring. So to me its like two wrestlers sharing that opinion but one is actually pretty good.
    Last edited by indyfan; 07-31-2019 at 09:23 AM.
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  15. #3875
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    Wrestling is subjective like watching a film is subjective. As in, I can tell you that Halloween is a bad film and borderline unwatchable, and Jim would probably disagree. I can say that the Godfather is one of the greatest films ever, and someone else can say that it's a boring slog. Just opinions, and none of them are right and wrong except in the mind of the person saying.

    That said, I do think, like films, there is such a thing as wrestling that is objectively bad. An example of this is The Room. While it's got a cult following, in every facet of being a good film, it fails. Similarly with wrestling, you can get something like Triple H vs Scott Steiner from the 2003 Royal Rumble that is objectively bad and fails in just about every way. Kevin Nash had matches that were mostly boring and uninteresting and I don't think you need to be an expert to say that he was an average-at-best talent in the ring.





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  16. #3876
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    ^

    Strangely enough, i think Steiner vs HHH must be universly hated.

    But whats interesting is polarising wrestlers or matches like Young Bucks or Cole or Omega.

    It cant be coincidence that they are all associated with each other. If Cole wasnt in WWE, hed be part of the Elite.

    If someone said Godfather was a bad film, theyd be ripped and dragged through the mud for that opinion.
    Last edited by indyfan; 07-31-2019 at 09:30 AM.
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    Isn't Al Snow the same one who said that what every match drew the most money was the best? I think that just shows a big difference in how wrestlers and fans view wrestling.

    Wrestling is all about perspective. I'm glad that a checklist was brought up because sometimes, wrestlers can do everything on the checklist and still not connect with a few people. It's pretty subjective to almost the nth degree.

  18. #3878
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    Re: Random Wrestling Talk

    You know you're a wrestling fan when your soon-to-be sister-in-law tells you that all of her brides maids will be wearing "dusty rose" and this is what you think of...


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