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Thread: Premier League 2020/21 Discussion Thread

  1. #201
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    Re: Premier League 2020/21 Discussion Thread

    To be fair to Moyes I think the ast majority of Man Utd fans know he wasn't the main issue there and if he was given a fair amount of time he would have sorted a lot of shit out. I am glad he is showing how good he is given the right opportunity though, and as I said before West Ham were mad to get rid of him first time around.

    As for Jose he is who he is. He'll get Spurs somewhere (Possibly Europa Success) and then do his usuall 3 season cycle. Was reading BBC text coverage and some fans were starting to turn on Harry Kane...who would have thought it.
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    Re: Premier League 2020/21 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tig View Post
    Yeah it's all a load of shite really - most rule changes in the game have been for the worse - and there's an unfortunate amount of Arsenal supporters in my friend group (Arsenal are widely followed by a certain age-group in Ireland, I'd imagine predominantly down to their early Wenger success) and they all rant regularly in the vein of conspiracy Papa (class transformation btw lol); perhaps not as elegantly as he does It must be across the fan-base that they all really feel the same; yes, there's decisions gone against Arsenal that shouldn't have and there is a definite, general lack of consistency that has unfortunately seemed to effect them more than others recently but the seeming club-wide feeling has always been negative. At least the last few years, I feel that more than any other club supporters, they complain or have something to give out about. Is this just the latest way to express frustration from the fan-base, is it just a scapegoat for a much deeper problem within the club? I personally think Arteta is crap still and a lot of the squad is weak and very few are what I'd have traditionally considered "Arsenal" players. Arsenal fans deserve better, they deserve to be a massive club but take the disciplinary and fouling inconsistencies away and accepting that the board you have is the board you have, what can be done to make them a powerhouse again?

    Fuckin COYI, pls hold out
    I mean for the midtable squad we have we're doing awright

    The issue I feel isn't necessarily Arteta. I find it hard to sit here and say he's shit when he hasn't REALLY had the support around him to protect him. Arsenal have WAY too many people in key positions who don't have experience at the top level. Edu is new to the technical director role, Arteta is new to management, the recruitment this season was woeful with the exception of Partey & Odegaard. I'd rather wait till next season to completely judge Arteta because by that point he should've been backed and gotten the deadwood out the club.

    No chance we'll become a powerhouse under this board, they said themselves they didnt come here to win trophies

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  3. #203
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    Re: Premier League 2020/21 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    To be fair to Moyes I think the ast majority of Man Utd fans know he wasn't the main issue there and if he was given a fair amount of time he would have sorted a lot of shit out. I am glad he is showing how good he is given the right opportunity though, and as I said before West Ham were mad to get rid of him first time around.

    As for Jose he is who he is. He'll get Spurs somewhere (Possibly Europa Success) and then do his usuall 3 season cycle. Was reading BBC text coverage and some fans were starting to turn on Harry Kane...who would have thought it.
    I eat my hate re: moyes. He's proved me completely wrong. As for Kane, I can see why. For a brilliant goalscorer he's gone extremely quiet in the way of important goals. I can't remember the last winner he scored, especially in an important game. He's their biggest asset and a very good player, I can just see why in the middle of a bad spell some fans would turn on him. Though I imagine it's the minority. Spurs just spurs really lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddes View Post
    I mean for the midtable squad we have we're doing awright

    The issue I feel isn't necessarily Arteta. I find it hard to sit here and say he's shit when he hasn't REALLY had the support around him to protect him. Arsenal have WAY too many people in key positions who don't have experience at the top level. Edu is new to the technical director role, Arteta is new to management, the recruitment this season was woeful with the exception of Partey & Odegaard. I'd rather wait till next season to completely judge Arteta because by that point he should've been backed and gotten the deadwood out the club.

    No chance we'll become a powerhouse under this board, they said themselves they didnt come here to win trophies
    Re: the transfers, does Arteta have control?

    Between Arsenal and Celtic you must be having a right laugh this year! Least ya've Rovers
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    Re: Premier League 2020/21 Discussion Thread

    75 seconds into the City match and our 6'2" defenders are outfought for a central header into the box by Raheem Sterling. Nice one, boys.

    Kudos to Moyes for what he is doing at West Ham. Flat out great to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    Consistency has been an issue for far too long now but that is down to the way the laws are written, they are up for an individuals interpretation of that rule as to what happens, and that is what is frustrating fans, that what is given as a red card in one match is nothing in an other match. Same with VAR, one match a goal will be disallowed for a hair, but in another it would be given as it's not clear and obvious.
    that inconsistency exists across the board. Plenty of sides seem to come out on the negative side too often. Arsenal are one of them.

    I think what I find awfully frustrating about it all is that the media, pundits, and plenty of other supporters act like there is no inconsistency. Sketchy decisions are defended as completely legit and then the same situation happens with a completely different outcome and that's defended. The logic twisting is just painful at times. I mean, Salah's arm touch penatly is defended because "well, there was contact" and then Lacazette is literally pulled to the ground by his jersey by Emi Martinez and its explained as Laca's fault because he "may have intentionally leaned in" and FORCED the jersey pull to the ground by the GK. I know its completely unrealistic for the pundits and media to openly admit inconsistency in decisions, but its also really frustrating when they do it this way because it feels so dismissive to constantly be told "nope, you are wrong, that was right" when its obviously not. It feels very much like gaslighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tig View Post
    Yeah it's all a load of shite really - most rule changes in the game have been for the worse - and there's an unfortunate amount of Arsenal supporters in my friend group (Arsenal are widely followed by a certain age-group in Ireland, I'd imagine predominantly down to their early Wenger success) and they all rant regularly in the vein of conspiracy Papa (class transformation btw lol); perhaps not as elegantly as he does It must be across the fan-base that they all really feel the same; yes, there's decisions gone against Arsenal that shouldn't have and there is a definite, general lack of consistency that has unfortunately seemed to effect them more than others recently but the seeming club-wide feeling has always been negative. At least the last few years, I feel that more than any other club supporters, they complain or have something to give out about. Is this just the latest way to express frustration from the fan-base, is it just a scapegoat for a much deeper problem within the club? I personally think Arteta is crap still and a lot of the squad is weak and very few are what I'd have traditionally considered "Arsenal" players. Arsenal fans deserve better, they deserve to be a massive club but take the disciplinary and fouling inconsistencies away and accepting that the board you have is the board you have, what can be done to make them a powerhouse again?

    Fuckin COYI, pls hold out
    I very obviously don't purport to speak for an entire fanbase. but I know that for a lot of us, the very root of the frustration is with a club hierarchy that has been fundamentally dishonest with us for the past 15 years. For lots of us who have roots in the mid-Wenger era or earlier, our perception of the club is one that operates with a degree of class. I know that's not overly unique (lots of clubs have that mentality to some degree) and not consistent. But it was ingrained in us as a "club value". And its almost entirely gone.

    Some examples of the dishonestly / lies:

    The new stadium was required to move us among the European elite - we have moved down in stature and success since the move
    The new stadium would not increase matchday costs to supporters - we have the most expensive tickets in football
    The new stadium would not impact squad building - it very clearly did when you look at our squad in the 2009-2013 period
    The goal every season was to win the title - very clearly top four was sufficient
    There is always money to spend - unclear is this was a lie but Wenger chose not to spend at times when it would have been vital

    I could list out a bunch more, but that's the main crux. You had asshats like Ivan Gazidis speaking to the media rarely and when he did, it was just a bunch of buzz-wordy platitudes that clearly didn't match with actions taken by the club. Even before the full takeover of the club by KSE, we just moved away from the way we used to operate. One moment that stands out to me was one of the last shareholder meetings we had some lady who held shares for an entire generation made a statement about concern over the direction of the club and the response from Sir Chips Kenwick, a board-member, was "thank you for your concern in our affairs". I'm not sure its possible to be more haughtily posh and dismissive to someone who is literally part of your club.

    One of the reasons that Wenger is loved and beloved but not unreservedly is because of his part in all of that. He was genuine as responsible for the decline of the club as anyone else. He held onto his ideals to a degree that was actively damaging. Which is massively hypocritical to say - demanding the club hang onto its ideals but not the manager. But fans aren't always reasonable, I guess (not excluding myself from that). I, like most Arsenal supporters, love the man dearly for what he did for the club and the success he brought... but that's not mutually exclusive to realizing he also inflicted some damage and stayed too long without answering to anyone.

    The situation at Arsenal isn't much different than at Liverpool 6-7 years ago. the difference is that the ownership there took the time to ensure there were the right people in key spots within the club structure and that has gradually paid off. We haven't and will not do that at Arsenal. Arteta, for all his inexperience, has almost the same autonomy to operate as Wenger did in his later years. Because Arsenal, as a club, simply refuse to learn from mistakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Order View Post
    Love to see Jose failing. Tottenham must really be regretting bringing him in. Also, a part of me is really happy for David Moyes. His reputation will always be so damaged by his time at United that it is nice to see he's doing well.

    On another note would love Fulham to survive and Newcastle to go down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    To be fair to Moyes I think the ast majority of Man Utd fans know he wasn't the main issue there and if he was given a fair amount of time he would have sorted a lot of shit out. I am glad he is showing how good he is given the right opportunity though, and as I said before West Ham were mad to get rid of him first time around.

    As for Jose he is who he is. He'll get Spurs somewhere (Possibly Europa Success) and then do his usuall 3 season cycle. Was reading BBC text coverage and some fans were starting to turn on Harry Kane...who would have thought it.
    One of my recent favorite headlines was The Athletic proclaiming that Spurs could not afford to fire Jose. As you say, he is who he is and the fact that anyone at Spurs thought he would change is kinda asinine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddes View Post
    I mean for the midtable squad we have we're doing awright

    The issue I feel isn't necessarily Arteta. I find it hard to sit here and say he's shit when he hasn't REALLY had the support around him to protect him. Arsenal have WAY too many people in key positions who don't have experience at the top level. Edu is new to the technical director role, Arteta is new to management, the recruitment this season was woeful with the exception of Partey & Odegaard. I'd rather wait till next season to completely judge Arteta because by that point he should've been backed and gotten the deadwood out the club.

    No chance we'll become a powerhouse under this board, they said themselves they didnt come here to win trophies
    Pretty much this.

    A great description I've heard is that our current owners / board are the perfect owners if you have everything in place for success - they just let things be run. But its terrible if things aren't set up. And they haven't been set up properly since Wenger was allowed to build his fiefdom that didn't allow him to be challenged.

    And yeah, I basically accept at this point that we are a mid-table team and a top half finish is all we can reasonably hope for.
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  5. #205
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    Re: Premier League 2020/21 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tig View Post
    I eat my hate re: moyes. He's proved me completely wrong. As for Kane, I can see why. For a brilliant goalscorer he's gone extremely quiet in the way of important goals. I can't remember the last winner he scored, especially in an important game. He's their biggest asset and a very good player, I can just see why in the middle of a bad spell some fans would turn on him. Though I imagine it's the minority. Spurs just spurs really lol.



    Re: the transfers, does Arteta have control?

    Between Arsenal and Celtic you must be having a right laugh this year! Least ya've Rovers
    I mean St Mirren are doin great, so I'm living life the now at this point I'm just laughing at Celtic and Arsenal. As much as I despise Rangers, Celtic deserve this season for their total lack of ambition and complacency. At least Spurs are doin shite as well so it's no ALL bad I guess

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    Re: Premier League 2020/21 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tig View Post
    Re: the transfers, does Arteta have control?

    Between Arsenal and Celtic you must be having a right laugh this year! Least ya've Rovers
    By all indicators, Arteta has basically as much authority as Wenger did in almost all regards. We have Edu in the Technical Director role and he works on Arteta on transfers but no indication he is "above" the manager. We even recently lost our contract specialist so Arteta and Edu are even handling that stuff now.

    Expected result yesterday. Not much to say.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
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