View Poll Results: Who betta?

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  • Eddie Guerrero

    6 24.00%
  • Chris Benoit

    19 76.00%
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Thread: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

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    ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT




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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Like Punk vs. Joe, it helps these two had parallel careers for the most part.

    So with that in mind, was Eddie ever considered better than Benoit at any point?

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Eddie was more of a total package, since he was so outwardly charismatic and had obvious star quality. But since it’s an in-ring quality tournament, I think there’s way more Benoit matches I’d rather watch.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Postman Dave View Post
    Like Punk vs. Joe, it helps these two had parallel careers for the most part.

    So with that in mind, was Eddie ever considered better than Benoit at any point?

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
    Depending on who you ask some would say Eddie was better in the 90s than Benoit. Benoit got pushed harder to the back end of the decade though.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Marketh View Post
    Eddie was more of a total package, since he was so outwardly charismatic and had obvious star quality. But since it’s an in-ring quality tournament, I think there’s way more Benoit matches I’d rather watch.
    That's my mindset. Guerrero had some really great periods as a worker, but Benoit was practically never average or worse while Guerrero was.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    I would expect Eddie to win for various obvious reasons.

    For me Benoit wasn't just better. He was a significant amount better. Best wrestler in the US for several years (1999 and 2004 certainly, 1998, 2000 he would be right up there, 2001 and 2002 he'd be in the conversation if each year wasn't cut short). Hell even in Eddie's best year, I don't think he was better than Benoit in that same year. Benoit has the great matches, and he was a better week to week guy. Me and Jim have talked about it a few times, but during the brand split era, the best brand was always the one with Benoit. Its not a coincidence.

    I like Eddie but I definitely feel like what Steve thinks about Bret is how I feel about Eddie. I think he's great with a high peak but I don't see him as a top 10 guy at all. think there's way too many gaps. Eg what did Eddie do of note in 1999-2001 when Benoit was probably the best worker in North America?

    I struggled to pick between Eddie and Strong. I won't struggle with this one.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    I would expect Eddie to win for various obvious reasons.

    For me Benoit wasn't just better. He was a significant amount better. Best wrestler in the US for several years (1999 and 2004 certainly, 1998, 2000 he would be right up there, 2001 and 2002 he'd be in the conversation if each year wasn't cut short). Hell even in Eddie's best year, I don't think he was better than Benoit in that same year. Benoit has the great matches, and he was a better week to week guy. Me and Jim have talked about it a few times, but during the brand split era, the best brand was always the one with Benoit. Its not a coincidence.

    I like Eddie but I definitely feel like what Steve thinks about Bret is how I feel about Eddie. I think he's great with a high peak but I don't see him as a top 10 guy at all. think there's way too many gaps. Eg what did Eddie do of note in 1999-2001 when Benoit was probably the best worker in North America?

    I struggled to pick between Eddie and Strong. I won't struggle with this one.

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    Is that a typo or did you just forget to explain why Eddie is likely to win despite not thinking he deserves to win?

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    I would expect Eddie to win for various obvious reasons.

    For me Benoit wasn't just better. He was a significant amount better. Best wrestler in the US for several years (1999 and 2004 certainly, 1998, 2000 he would be right up there, 2001 and 2002 he'd be in the conversation if each year wasn't cut short). Hell even in Eddie's best year, I don't think he was better than Benoit in that same year. Benoit has the great matches, and he was a better week to week guy. Me and Jim have talked about it a few times, but during the brand split era, the best brand was always the one with Benoit. Its not a coincidence.

    I like Eddie but I definitely feel like what Steve thinks about Bret is how I feel about Eddie. I think he's great with a high peak but I don't see him as a top 10 guy at all. think there's way too many gaps. Eg what did Eddie do of note in 1999-2001 when Benoit was probably the best worker in North America?

    I struggled to pick between Eddie and Strong. I won't struggle with this one.

    Sent from my YAL-L21 using Tapatalk
    It's not going to compare to Benoit's year there but Eddie vs Low Ki was great and his match with Punk was also very good.

    I'm going to think about this one. Gut instinct and conventional wisdom says Benoit, but I'll give it some thought later.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Is that a typo or did you just forget to explain why Eddie is likely to win despite not thinking he deserves to win?
    I think there's a great big elephant in the room with Benoit. I know it's an in ring tournament only, but people's opinions on both men could sway them. Especially if you're on the fence, which one are you likely going with?

    Against someone as likable and popular as Eddie I can see Eddie picking up more votes. Benoit had easy matches till now, so you couldn't really justify saying someone was better. With Eddie I think there's room for an argument, even if I would heavily disagree.

    I don't want to delve too deep into it as I think it's against the spirit of the tournament . Nor am I suggesting that people who vote Eddie are only doing it against Benoit.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    It's not going to compare to Benoit's year there but Eddie vs Low Ki was great and his match with Punk was also very good.

    I'm going to think about this one. Gut instinct and conventional wisdom says Benoit, but I'll give it some thought later.
    The Punk matches were 2002, not 2001. The Low-Ki match isn't a huge testiment to Guerrero being memorable in the ring in 1999-2001 when it literally took place in November 2001 barely making the cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    I think there's a great big elephant in the room with Benoit. I know it's an in ring tournament only, but people's opinions on both men could sway them. Especially if you're on the fence, which one are you likely going with?

    Against someone as likable and popular as Eddie I can see Eddie picking up more votes. Benoit had easy matches till now, so you couldn't really justify saying someone was better. With Eddie I think there's room for an argument, even if I would heavily disagree.

    I don't want to delve too deep into it as I think it's against the spirit of the tournament . Nor am I suggesting that people who vote Eddie are only doing it against Benoit.

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    That's fair, but WC tends to be pretty easy going with giving Benoit his due props regardless of what he did that final weekend. Look at the WC Hall of Fame. Benoit was inducted before the likes of Hogan, Savage, Lawler, Undertaker, Andre, ect.
    Last edited by Jim; 05-28-2020 at 07:59 AM.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    In ring it's Benoit as the stronger wrestler for sure. I'm in agreement with Shock, I've never bought Eddie as a top 10 guy.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    How does Benoit's best year compare to what Eddie did in 1997 and 2004-2005?

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    I don't think their peaks are too far apart but Benoit has the longer stretch of greatness in his career. Eddie had his low periods in late WCW due to injury or drugs in his inital WWF run. I like his Lucha stuff a lot, I recently watched the Los Gringos Locos vs Hijo del Santo/Octagon match that happened in 94 and thought it was incredble. He had a good tag match with Santo against Jerry Estrada and Espanto as well. His Rey matches are generally great with notable exceptions (WM 21). The Brock match is a classic.

    Benoit, like I said, is on par with him peak wise along with his own Brock classic. His Jr run in New Japan is very good, more so than Eddie's Black Tiger II run. He had some great matches in WCW regardless of booking (even in the pits that is WCW 1999). Benoit had some great PPV and TV matches throughout his WWE tenure from 2000 upto 2007.

    It's so close but Benoit just edges it.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by MC 16 View Post
    He had some great matches in WCW regardless of booking (even in the pits that is WCW 1999).
    Honestly, his 1999 was actually really good. Was the leader of a brief period where tag team wrestling became great again, carried Bret to maybe the last really memorable Nitro match, and had a quality series of matches with Jeff Jarrett. I wouldn't even be against calling it Benoit's best year in WCW.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Honestly, his 1999 was actually really good. Was the leader of a brief period where tag team wrestling became great again, carried Bret to maybe the last really memorable Nitro match, and had a quality series of matches with Jeff Jarrett. I wouldn't even be against calling it Benoit's best year in WCW.
    I was going through the Nitros early last year and it was so clear how much better Benoit was than everyone else.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonE View Post
    How does Benoit's best year compare to what Eddie did in 1997 and 2004-2005?
    Benoit was better than Eddie in both 2004 and 2005, and I wouldn't consider those Benoit's best years.

    1997 Benoit and 1997 Eddie is debatable.

    I don't think Eddie was ever as good at any point as Benoit in that 1998-2002 stretch for Benoit. I'd say there's at least four years of Benoit that I would put above Eddie's best year (2004)

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    WARNING - Long post coming


    EDDIE
    - There is footage of Eddie as far back as '87 of him being real good, so he was good incredibly quickly
    - Early 90s run in AAA with Art Bar was real good
    - Mid-90s run in Japan as Black Tiger was real good with a couple stand out matches with Liger and Benoit
    - ECW run is real good - everyone knows the 2/3 falls match with Dean but all of their matches are awesome, as are the Eddie vs Scorpio matches
    - '97 is obvious his big year in WCW with the HH Rey match, FB Jericho match, and a bunch of other real good matches with Dean. The years either side were no slouch, he had a real good match with Flair in '96 despite not being used much otherwise, and a real good match with Booker in '98.
    - late '98 to the end of WCW is a wash as he's in the lWo and barely even used outside of a fued with the ICP
    - 2000 WWE run was also pretty whatever. not BAD but uninspired and dead average
    - 2001 he gets the boot from WWE but has a couple awesome gems on the indy scene with Low Ki and Punk where he seems more motivated than in years
    - 2002 he comes back to the 'E and has a great run, carrying RVD and Edge, the latter being a career fued for Edge; he was less featured in the Smackdown 6 era than the other 4 ahead of him but still delivered in all those matches
    - 2003 - The Los Guerreros/Tajiri vs Team Angle fued was really good on the whole; mini-fued with Cena was good
    - 2004 - great title change match with Brock; he has really good matches with Angle during a period where Angle was basically stuck in his formula; I am a high man on the JBL matches and think they were awesome, bloody, visceral brawls that cemented JBL as a main event guy; a killer match with Big Show on TV
    - The 2005 Rey series has a few mis-steps, but more hits than misses with their best match being maybe the best Smackdown match ever. He also carried Batista, Angle and the Basham Bros to real good matches that year

    All in - a pretty great career over roughly ~25 years. Great pretty much from the start until the end, with a few dud patches in the late-90s-2000 period. He was often less featured than his peers (such as Benoit) but consistently delivered in the mid-card, usually carrying a range of guys with different skillsets.



    BENOIT
    - Is there much footage of Benoit in Stampede? I know I've seen a couple matches but not enough to gauge how good he was so early in his career
    - Was pretty good in the early 90s in Mexico, his fued with Villano III stands out but he wasn't being carried there
    - First WCW run is good - strong matches with Scorpio & Armstrong
    - ECW run was brief was decent. Mostly known for him injuring Sabu but I rate the Snow match. Not as good as Eddie's stint there but good
    - Also really good in Japan in the mid-90s, his matches with Liger weren't as good as Eddie's but the Sasuke match is great and there's a bunch of good tag team stuff as well as a great Regal match
    - I'd say his second WCW run was hit and miss. Career matches with Sullivan, DDP, Booker, Raven; I liked a couple of his matches against/with Dean but I don't think he had as good of chemistry with him or Jericho (at this point) as Eddie did.
    - Late 90s he gets a main event push and does the best he could, but is mostly wrestling total loads like Rick Steiner, Sid, lazy Bret, a bunch of other crappy guys
    - Early 2000s WWE run is super strong with matches against Rock, Jericho, HHH, Austin all being good to exellent
    - Smackdown 6 and Angle/Benoit stuff is mostly good though I'd say the Angle matches range from Excellent to bad. Lesnar match is great
    - 2004 main event push really delivers with a bunch of killer tags on RAW, strong WM main event, good matches with HHH, Michaels and Orton, a strong carryjob of Kane
    - 2005 -2007 he mostly just floats career-wise but is still a consistanly high end worker with good matches against a range of opponents from Regal and Finley to Edge and Orton to JBL, Booker, MVP

    All in I'd say that's similarly a ~25 high end career. No real down periods but I'd say he was good slower than Eddie was, but otherwise career-wise they are near identical. Benoit's late 90s ain't that, but thats more the talent he was working whereas Eddie was straight in absentia for stretches. Benoit starts the 2000s with a hell of a run while Eddie had to go lump it in the indies and re-light his spark. Benoit has more quality in the 2000s but I'd attribute that partly to being pushed more and featured more prominently...

    I'm going with Benoit, but I think this is right to be a close call. Both have incredibly similar careers and if you broke that down to individual periods, stints, how they worked with the same opponents (Malenko, Jericho, Edge, etc) there are points where Eddie clearly wins and some where Benoit clearly wins. In fact if we were looking just at the 90s I'd be inclined to go Eddie here. But Benoit has the edge WWE-side, somewhat down to opportunity, but also down to how consistant he was in delivering when given the chance, often against less than stellar talent.
    Last edited by King Steventon; 05-29-2020 at 09:29 AM.

  18. #18

    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    - Is there much footage of Benoit in Stampede? I know I've seen a couple matches but not enough to gauge how good he was so early in his career
    I don't know about his early Stampede career, but you can find the full 1989 TV on XWT Classics. So that's ~35 Benoit matches, but given that it's Stampede, it's unclear how many of those are full bouts.

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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    I'm going with Benoit, but I think this is right to be a close call. Both have incredibly similar careers and if you broke that down to individual periods, stints, how they worked with the same opponents (Malenko, Jericho, Edge, etc) there are points where Eddie clearly wins and some where Benoit clearly wins. In fact if we were looking just at the 90s I'd be inclined to go Eddie here. But Benoit has the edge WWE-side, somewhat down to opportunity, but also down to how consistant he was in delivering when given the chance, often against less than stellar talent.
    Mutual opponents is always an interesting way to look at it. So I'll throw some names down:

    Rey Mysterio - Eddie wins here, of course. But Rey vs Benoit was a neat little TV match, surprisingly for two guys that were in the same company and same brand for so long they rarely ever wrestled.
    Dean Malenko - Eddie wins here for me too
    Brock Lesnar - tie. Which match I prefer is probably whichever one I watched last, both are classics.
    Jericho - Benoit wins here pretty comfortably. I don't care for Eddie vs Jericho, whereas I love most of the 2000 series with Jericho and Benoit
    Angle - Benoit for me here too. We can talk for days about the negative influence the series had on Kurt Angle but at the time this felt fresh.
    Edge - Eddie, but not by much. I am a big fan of Edge vs Benoit from Backlash 2005, but it's hard to argue against Edge vs Eddie from SmackDown in 2002

    Not sure if I'm missing any obvious ones?

    Eddie seems to have a slight edge in that department by the looks of it. Other mutual opponents like JBL are harder to fairly compare as one is a main event blood feud whereas the other was a midcard feud. Similarly with Triple H - Benoit got a main event feud, Eddie got a lengthy Raw match where Triple H put in absolutely zero effort.







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    Re: ROUND 4 - LAST 16 - GUERRERO vs BENOIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Rey Mysterio - Eddie wins here, of course. But Rey vs Benoit was a neat little TV match, surprisingly for two guys that were in the same company and same brand for so long they rarely ever wrestled.
    Believe it or not, but their 2002 match was their first ever televised singles match. When you add in house show matches, their total singles match count gets increased to...two.

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