View Poll Results: Who betta?

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  • John Cena

    16 76.19%
  • Chris Sabin

    5 23.81%
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Thread: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

  1. #1
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    ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    Okay, this should be more straightforward than Sabin's last match. Easy Cena victory for me.

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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    The man actually pulled it off! Hail Sabin!


    Don't see an argument against Cena unfortunately though.

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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    Sabin is way better than Cena. Cena is average at best. His matches bore the hell out of me
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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    I'm also going with Cena here but it's not quite as cut and dry in my head. Sabin's easily a better tag wrestler, and I'd obviously take his X-Division stuff over Cena's 2015 MOVEZ stuff because it looks way more natural for one thing, but Cena was a great ace for WWE and has a history of better singles matches with depth and story to them.

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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    I'm also going with Cena here but it's not quite as cut and dry in my head. Sabin's easily a better tag wrestler, and I'd obviously take his X-Division stuff over Cena's 2015 MOVEZ stuff because it looks way more natural for one thing, but Cena was a great ace for WWE and has a history of better singles matches with depth and story to them.
    You bring up a good point: Sabin is far better at a pwg style spot fest than John Cena.

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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    But is he? I disliked Big Match John as much as most but Sabin was never a spectacular spots guy and his actual indy spotfest stuff wasn't any good either.

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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    But is he? I disliked Big Match John as much as most but Sabin was never a spectacular spots guy and his actual indy spotfest stuff wasn't any good either.
    I absolutely hated indy spot fest Cena. It'll be a reason why I inevitably vote against him in later rounds.

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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    It's funny. I generally adore all Cena's biggest matches but as soon as WWE forced this "Big Match John" monniker, I totally soured on his matches. Indie Cena is not someone I want to watch.

    Cena has bigger depth and bigger peaks. Name a match Sabin's had that was better than Umaga vs Cena.

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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    I think people's pushes and star power are inevitably coloring people's views here which we saw a bit in the last Round with Undertaker getting votes.

    Cena was put in position to have that kind of emotional gravitas in his matches that Sabin was never ever going to have in TNA. On top of it his act was largely misused through much of his run. People forget only the last year or 2 pre-injury the MCMG were getting their Beer Money feud and all that. That doesn't really prove Cena as a better in-ring performer, only that he had advantages a lot of others didn't to add importance to his matches, as well as emotional investment.

    Earlier on before MCMG there are a lot of standout Sabin hidden gems in the X Division and a handful of good ones in Japan. Hell even his BOSJ run was good stuff. Not gonna win WOTY or anything but he arguably had a more complete run than foreigners who you would think off hand are far higher "rated" than he was when he had it in 2018 when he was broken down and past his prime.

    I'm a Cena fan myself but just in-ring there are a lot of holes in his career. He's not the kind of guy that can just go out and wrestle every week and get by on his in-ring abilities. His indy-Cena run proved that when it totally sucked. I'm not buying Cena as having bigger depth at all career vs. career if you look at the entire totality of both of them. He might have the best match of these 2 but I would probably have to think about it a bit more before I even fully concede that.

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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I think people's pushes and star power are inevitably coloring people's views here which we saw a bit in the last Round with Undertaker getting votes.

    Cena was put in position to have that kind of emotional gravitas in his matches that Sabin was never ever going to have in TNA. On top of it his act was largely misused through much of his run. People forget only the last year or 2 pre-injury the MCMG were getting their Beer Money feud and all that. That doesn't really prove Cena as a better in-ring performer, only that he had advantages a lot of others didn't to add importance to his matches, as well as emotional investment.

    Earlier on before MCMG there are a lot of standout Sabin hidden gems in the X Division and a handful of good ones in Japan. Hell even his BOSJ run was good stuff. Not gonna win WOTY or anything but he arguably had a more complete run than foreigners who you would think off hand are far higher "rated" than he was when he had it in 2018 when he was broken down and past his prime.

    I'm a Cena fan myself but just in-ring there are a lot of holes in his career. He's not the kind of guy that can just go out and wrestle every week and get by on his in-ring abilities. His indy-Cena run proved that when it totally sucked. I'm not buying Cena as having bigger depth at all career vs. career if you look at the entire totality of both of them. He might have the best match of these 2 but I would probably have to think about it a bit more before I even fully concede that.
    I don't buy this. Sabin has a world title run and at one point was the 'ace' of the X-Division, so he's been afforded decent opportunities in his career. I'd say his placement on a card has largely been where it should be respective to the other talent on the rosters. I was a low-voter on the MCMG vs Beer Money fued and thought it was absurdly overrated by people wanting any tag team fued to be taken seriously in the states. In general MCMG were overrated because they were two indy darlings doing big spotfest/workrate matches. The best match they had in TNA was the Team 3D retirement match.

    Prime Cena was a consistent week to week performer. It was only after his body started to wear and he was no longer the top guy his quality dipped, and that was after like a 10 year run. I don't think you'd find a patch from 2002 - 2012 where he was actively bad. I feel like there's an element of recency bias here, because Prime Cena was a pretty high level worker, much better than Sabin ever was at his best.

    I would agree Cena is much better at getting people emotionally invested in his matches than Sabin is.
    Last edited by King Steventon; 05-22-2020 at 07:16 AM.

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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    I don't buy this. Sabin has a world title run and at one point was the 'ace' of the X-Division, so he's been afforded decent opportunities in his career. I'd say his placement on a card has largely been where it should be respective to the other talent on the rosters.

    Being a headliner in TNA means nothing to people's emotional investments at large, especially this particular voting base. Even then his one major singles push was basically built up as a background angle to Aces & Eights, hardly equivalent to Cena's run as Ace of WWE.

    I was a low-voter on the MCMG vs Beer Money fued and thought it was absurdly overrated by people wanting any tag team fued to be taken seriously in the states. In general MCMG were overrated because they were two indy darlings doing big spotfest/workrate matches. The best match they had in TNA was the Team 3D retirement match.
    That's an opinion, not one I vibe with much though. I liked their singles match against each other a lot, I think they were a team in other places than TNA in general but the 3D match is up there.

    Prime Cena was a consistent week to week performer. It was only after his body started to wear and he was no longer the top guy his quality dipped, and that was after like a 10 year run. I don't think you'd find a patch from 2002 - 2012 where he was actively bad. I feel like there's an element of recency bias here, because Prime Cena was a pretty high level worker, much better than Sabin ever was at his best.

    I would agree Cena is much better at getting people emotionally invested in his matches than Sabin is.
    Cena was never a week-in/work-out great worker early on and in his rapper gimmick even calling him average is a bit of a stretch. He grew into someone great from around '05-'07 is where I consider his peak consistency and he even had some pretty strong tv matches during this era, depending on how you feel in the UK. I think '08-'12 was a really shitty era in general for WWE weekly shows not named ECW and it wasn't really his fault, but that whole Cena/Orton/HHH triangle of terror was a miserable run for all 3. Then you have stuff like the Nexus shit which was mostly terrible outside of a good tv match with Gabriel & a good Barrett PPV match. His shitty Kane feud, his shitty Miz feud, his shitty Ryback feud, his shitty Laurinaitis feud. He had the stuff with Punk which was memorable but otherwise those hardly great years for Cena in-ring performances. 2013 was a bit of a resurgence with him having The Rock, CM Punk on Raw and Bryan at Summerslam which to me the last 2 are both up there among his best matches. From 2014 on there was much more negative than positive to his career from an in-ring perspective. In general he's an interesting case because he had a really great prime run that was underappreciated but there may have been more negative periods than positives throughout his career. Though personally I feel many of those times are not his fault until the last few years.

  13. #13

    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I think people's pushes and star power are inevitably coloring people's views here which we saw a bit in the last Round with Undertaker getting votes.
    Or, and here me out here, maybe some people thinks that The Undertaker has produced some quality over the years.

  14. #14
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    Re: ROUND 2: John Cena vs Chris Sabin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Or, and here me out here, maybe some people thinks that The Undertaker has produced some quality over the years.
    Don't you dare suggest such an asinine thing.
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