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Thread: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

  1. #41

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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    I feel awful for David, he looks exactly like Chris. I couldn't even imagine living with what he has to live with.

    As far as WWE that is pretty pathetic that they never reached out to Nancy's family and tried helping in any way. A company that makes that much money, they couldn't make any gesture towards them?

    Dean Malenko looked the most haunted by everything. You could really tell how hard it was for him to even talk about Benoit.

    As far as Nancy being inducted if I were the family I wouldn't anything to do with the WWE, They did crap for them when one of their wrestlers murdered her, why in the world would the family care about her being inducted into some hall of fame?

  2. #42
    Curtain Jerker

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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    This whole documentary was brilliant. I truly felt awful for David especially with no one aside from Chavo and Jericho offering support in that situation despite the fact he was really young when that happened. Jericho and Chavo are truly great human beings. The whole Eddie thing when Chavo and Vickie are talking about his passing legit made me tear up. Vice did a tremendous job getting everyone relevant to the situation that was willing to interview. I remember watching Chris' video on the Eddie tribute show and crying when I was a kid seeing that feeling so bad for Chris not knowing just how much damage it did to his psyche. The dramatizations with the blurred actors portraying each scene added so much that increased the intensity and emotion of each story told. This may be the best wrestling documentary ever done.

  3. #43
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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post

    As always, I'm left amazed at how Woman's sister speaks about Benoit. She has every reason in the word to shit on him until she dies, but between this and her interview on Talk is Jericho, she's very fair.
    I'm only on part 1 and I have to say this is the most striking thing to me as well. I think she perfectly shows why this is so polarising for wrestling fans. The things she says about Chris are amazing and, I have to say, deeply upsetting given what happened. Seeing Vickie show the pictures of Chris and Nancy's wedding with Daniel was particularly difficult to stomach.

    The production is fantastic as well.


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  4. #44

    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Necro View Post
    Dean Malenko looked the most haunted by everything. You could really tell how hard it was for him to even talk about Benoit.
    Unfortunately, Malenko's look is because he's now dealing with Parkinson's Disease.

  5. #45

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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Unfortunately, Malenko's look is because he's now dealing with Parkinson's Disease.
    I know about all of his health issues, I just am talking about his eyes, and his words. He really seemed disgusted by Benoit. The other guys could at least separate his career.

  6. #46
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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Necro View Post
    I know about all of his health issues, I just am talking about his eyes, and his words. He really seemed disgusted by Benoit. The other guys could at least separate his career.
    It's up to every individual whether they choose to separate the art from the artist - but no one should ever be questioned or criticized for refusing to do so. I dont know if this was necessarily that (maybe you're just making an observation). There is no art without the artist but there will always be the artist without the art.

    Chris Benoit's situation is particularly complex because its challenging to tell how much control he had over his actions. Definitely a case where I have no choice but to withhold personal feelings because there's too many question marks personally.
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  7. #47

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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Chavez View Post
    It's up to every individual whether they choose to separate the art from the artist - but no one should ever be questioned or criticized for refusing to do so. I dont know if this was necessarily that (maybe you're just making an observation). There is no art without the artist but there will always be the artist without the art.

    Chris Benoit's situation is particularly complex because its challenging to tell how much control he had over his actions. Definitely a case where I have no choice but to withhold personal feelings because there's too many question marks personally.
    Well when I'm stating my opinion yes it's my observation. I can honestly tell you I'm not Dean Malenko.

  8. #48
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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Necro View Post
    Well when I'm stating my opinion yes it's my observation. I can honestly tell you I'm not Dean Malenko.
    Well theres a difference between observing someone is doing a thing and having an opinion that the thing you've observed them doing is bad If you're doing the latter & criticizing him for not separating art/artist then that's silly.
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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Chavez View Post
    Well theres a difference between observing someone is doing a thing and having an opinion that the thing you've observed them doing is bad If you're doing the latter & criticizing him for not separating art/artist then that's silly.
    Well yeah my wording wasn't great, but when I look back at most things I write it never is very coherent.

  10. #50
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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Chavez View Post
    Chris Benoit's situation is particularly complex because its challenging to tell how much control he had over his actions. Definitely a case where I have no choice but to withhold personal feelings because there's too many question marks personally.
    I agree. I think it's probably quite similar in a lot of cases like this, but because of the high profile nature of the Benoit case we know an awful lot about the things that led him to this point. In other violent crime cases we as outsiders don't get such a deep back story.

    What I do find cut and dry is that Benoit's life choices and desire to be the best at what he did is ultimately what led him to this end. And at times I've almost questioned my own humanity when I watch his older matches. I love watching him wrestle, and I find it easy to separate the man and the performer. But a lot of what I love about his matches contributed to the death of two innocent people and the disintegration of Benoit's brain.

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  11. #51
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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    I agree. I think it's probably quite similar in a lot of cases like this, but because of the high profile nature of the Benoit case we know an awful lot about the things that led him to this point. In other violent crime cases we as outsiders don't get such a deep back story.

    What I do find cut and dry is that Benoit's life choices and desire to be the best at what he did is ultimately what led him to this end. And at times I've almost questioned my own humanity when I watch his older matches. I love watching him wrestle, and I find it easy to separate the man and the performer. But a lot of what I love about his matches contributed to the death of two innocent people and the disintegration of Benoit's brain.

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    My personal perspective is, while Im withholding personal judgment on Benoit, Im not really partaking in watching Benoit-related things either. I cant totally ignore the ultimate consequences of his livelihood. For the most part, I dont usually have much trouble steering away from problematic figures like this because as great as Benoit was, there have been many other great wrestlers & great matches and Im honestly not gonna die or lose out on something not watching his stuff. Theres an insane amount of great wrestling many of us are never going to watch anyways. The time I might spend on Benoit or a similarly or worse problematic figure (beyond wrestling included) is time I could have invested on the many other non-problematic figures who are talented and doing cool stuff.

    I 100% have a tiny regret that there are some things Im not going to check out which are heralded as classics because I find the creator problematic but knowing that its inevitable Im going to miss out on great stuff because theres so much of it out there in the world softens that regret. Fortunate that, especially in 2020, theres so much to partake in, Im not struggling for options even with the crossed out stuff.

    I do have a slight asterisk on this in that, Im not sure whats the best solution when you consider that art (generalizing here) is usually not done in isolation and sometimes Im willing to watch something with a problematic creator under the knowledge that other great people did also contribute to it and in many cases their efforts shouldnt be dismissed because of the one problematic person. Wrestling is obvious, it's not a 1 man show. Its the work of the multiple wrestlers, referee, commentary, etc. etc.

    Yeah. Complicated situation Lots of shades of grey in there.
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    Also, eat the rich.

  12. #52
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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Chavez View Post
    My personal perspective is, while Im withholding personal judgment on Benoit, Im not really partaking in watching Benoit-related things either. I cant totally ignore the ultimate consequences of his livelihood. For the most part, I dont usually have much trouble steering away from problematic figures like this because as great as Benoit was, there have been many other great wrestlers & great matches and Im honestly not gonna die or lose out on something not watching his stuff. Theres an insane amount of great wrestling many of us are never going to watch anyways. The time I might spend on Benoit or a similarly or worse problematic figure (beyond wrestling included) is time I could have invested on the many other non-problematic figures who are talented and doing cool stuff.

    I 100% have a tiny regret that there are some things Im not going to check out which are heralded as classics because I find the creator problematic but knowing that its inevitable Im going to miss out on great stuff because theres so much of it out there in the world softens that regret. Fortunate that, especially in 2020, theres so much to partake in, Im not struggling for options even with the crossed out stuff.

    I do have a slight asterisk on this in that, Im not sure whats the best solution when you consider that art (generalizing here) is usually not done in isolation and sometimes Im willing to watch something with a problematic creator under the knowledge that other great people did also contribute to it and in many cases their efforts shouldnt be dismissed because of the one problematic person. Wrestling is obvious, it's not a 1 man show. Its the work of the multiple wrestlers, referee, commentary, etc. etc.

    Yeah. Complicated situation Lots of shades of grey in there.
    Out of curiosity were you a big Benoit fan before the incident?

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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Necro View Post
    Well when I'm stating my opinion yes it's my observation. I can honestly tell you I'm not Dean Malenko.
    Exactly what Dean Malenko would say.

  14. #54
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    Re: Benoit: Dark Side of the Ring

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Out of curiosity were you a big Benoit fan before the incident?

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    No. Eddie/Jericho/Rey were my faves growing up. I liked entertaining personalities or cool looks at the time or wrestlers of color and Benoit was none of those. I imagine that he wouldve been one of my all time faves as I grew older though considering the stuff Im into now.

    But it wouldn't really have any impact on my thoughts regarding watching his stuff given my feelings pre/post death on Kobe when he was my #1 hero (and my family's) for most of my life. Theres just a level of discomfort in me taking pleasure (phrasing) from someone when someone else may have suffered deeply as a result of them. The idea that something that horrible may have been done to me or someone Im close to and people en masse are still praising/celebrating that person would suck. I dont judge anyone for feeling otherwise, its just me.

    One thing Ill say is fucking kudos to guys like Jericho & Rey & Chavo (& many others) whove lost a lot of their peers at extremely young ages but have managed to pull through. I honestly cant imagine. I remember reading Jericho's first book and it felt pretty tragic knowing how many people he befriended & had awesome stories with that are now gone.
    Todd Chavez: I'm deeply sad and nothing can make me happy.

    Also, eat the rich.

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