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Thread: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ETE View Post
    Sami's been the standout heel for so long that the heels below him really aren't very interesting at all. I don't think anyone wants Moose or RVD in a World Title program.

    But really whats next for Tessa is no different than what would be next for any World Champ. I dont want to seem like im virtue signalling or anything but it shouldnt matter that she's a chick, she's the World Champ.
    I get with pro-wrestling we're supposed to suspend reality a bit, but I think that putting the world title on a woman is the wrong idea and is honestly just shock value. When Triple H gave his interview about Intergender wrestling last year I thought he was spot on.He was quoted as saying:

    'Well, to have the man vs. the woman' it's just shock value, you don't need it," Triple H continued. "I think when it's done right there's an exciting moment when it can happen, but I don't mean to think that needs to be the standard."

    Putting the world title on Tessa was a bad idea and they should have stopped after her loss at Slammiversary. Impact wanted to create a moment, and they did it but at what cost? Tessa didn't need the world title to show she was miles ahead of the men when it came to her in ring abilities. Good match, decent feud, bad long term plan.

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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    I really dont get that argument at all. I mean Pro Wrestling is all about suspending belief/reality. I mean Brock Lesnar would smash the entire WWE roster one after the other in one night. Its a massive suspension of belief just there to see guys like Rollins, Mysterio, Eddie G, etc get the better of him. Same with a Braun or Big Show or Kane. How do any of those guys lose to people that are like half their size. Its a thread best left not picking at in my opinion, because where do you draw the line? At what point do you go "oh no this isn't believable, this is just shock value"? Because if you're worried about those things, those boundaries were overstepped long ago.

    I look at it like Tessa has been one of Impacts best regardless of gender. Would it be better to have Moose or RVD or Shamrock in her spot? And have Tessa feuding with Madison Rayne and Su Yung? I don't see any negatives here. Everyone loves the idea of Daniel Bryan beating Brock Lesnar but some draw the line at Tessa beating Sami Callihan. Tessa's delivered in every aspect, and this gives Impact at least briefly more of an identity too.




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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ETE View Post
    I really dont get that argument at all. I mean Pro Wrestling is all about suspending belief/reality. I mean Brock Lesnar would smash the entire WWE roster one after the other in one night. Its a massive suspension of belief just there to see guys like Rollins, Mysterio, Eddie G, etc get the better of him. Same with a Braun or Big Show or Kane. How do any of those guys lose to people that are like half their size. Its a thread best left not picking at in my opinion, because where do you draw the line? At what point do you go "oh no this isn't believable, this is just shock value"? Because if you're worried about those things, those boundaries were overstepped long ago.

    I look at it like Tessa has been one of Impacts best regardless of gender. Would it be better to have Moose or RVD or Shamrock in her spot? And have Tessa feuding with Madison Rayne and Su Yung? I don't see any negatives here. Everyone loves the idea of Daniel Bryan beating Brock Lesnar but some draw the line at Tessa beating Sami Callihan. Tessa's delivered in every aspect, and this gives Impact at least briefly more of an identity too.
    It's actually believable when a smaller wrestler beats someone like Lesnar or Kane because there has been numerous instances of large men being beaten by men that are smaller than them...it actually happens frequently. The original UFC was a prime example of this. Suspending belief for me in those instances is when something crazy happens like Undertakers lightning or something like that.

    Tessa was good in the match, she sold very well...but they put the title on her for shock value just to say "we have a woman as our world champion, we're different and progressive". That's cool and all, but where do you go from here? She can't keep this up for a long title reign because it becomes TOO unbelievable. There was a reason why Dana White and the UFC NEVER pulled the trigger on Rousey actually fighting men...it's not necessary and we all know the eventual outcome.

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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Kid View Post
    It's actually believable when a smaller wrestler beats someone like Lesnar or Kane because there has been numerous instances of large men being beaten by men that are smaller than them...it actually happens frequently. The original UFC was a prime example of this. Suspending belief for me in those instances is when something crazy happens like Undertakers lightning or something like that.

    Tessa was good in the match, she sold very well...but they put the title on her for shock value just to say "we have a woman as our world champion, we're different and progressive". That's cool and all, but where do you go from here? She can't keep this up for a long title reign because it becomes TOO unbelievable. There was a reason why Dana White and the UFC NEVER pulled the trigger on Rousey actually fighting men...it's not necessary and we all know the eventual outcome.
    The thing with early UFC and the like is it was low level big guys, or just big guys who had zero grappling experience so guy's like Royce Gracie could easily beat them. But put a LW, WW, MW against a guy like Francis Ngaunu and it only ends one way, Francis takes their head off. When the big guys highly skilled like a Brock Lesnar its not at all believable that a guy like Daniel Bryan could actually beat him. There's also instances as well of women beating men. Some of the women in the UFC today that come from a Muay Thai background have faced and beat men. You'll find no shortage of videos online of women beating men.

    The thing with Ronda fighting men is how would her skillset comapre to 135 guys? or 145 guys? A guy like Mighty Mouse or Jose Aldo against someone with Ronda's skillset, thats a bad matchup not because its man vs woman but because the guys are so high level and Ronda's skillset was pretty one dimensional.

    I dont see how Bryan beating Brock is fine when Bryan weighs about as much as one of Brocks meals but then Tessa beating Sami is such an issue when Sami isn't a big guy, and neither is much of the Impact roster. Thats something this does have going for it here. Like it wouldn't work in WWE you couldn't have Tessa mix it up with guys like Brock, Orton, Corbin, Lashley, etc who tower over her.

    Ultimately if you're so concerned about what is believable Pro Wrestling seems like a weird thing to watch. I mean the WWE keep pretending Seth Rollins has a personality when he's one of the dullest charisma vacuums to ever exist. The very nature of Pro Wrestling is doing unbelievable things. I mean if someone climbs a turnbuckle and does some spastic failed gymnast 720 corkscrew monkey flip...why wouldn't you just take one step to the side? As I said before its a thread best left not picking at in my opinion. If beleivability is what matters then it makes sense that Brock is always the Universal Champion, no one if the WWE is believable to beat that guy.




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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ETE View Post
    The thing with early UFC and the like is it was low level big guys, or just big guys who had zero grappling experience so guy's like Royce Gracie could easily beat them. But put a LW, WW, MW against a guy like Francis Ngaunu and it only ends one way, Francis takes their head off. When the big guys highly skilled like a Brock Lesnar its not at all believable that a guy like Daniel Bryan could actually beat him. There's also instances as well of women beating men. Some of the women in the UFC today that come from a Muay Thai background have faced and beat men. You'll find no shortage of videos online of women beating men.

    The thing with Ronda fighting men is how would her skillset comapre to 135 guys? or 145 guys? A guy like Mighty Mouse or Jose Aldo against someone with Ronda's skillset, thats a bad matchup not because its man vs woman but because the guys are so high level and Ronda's skillset was pretty one dimensional.

    I dont see how Bryan beating Brock is fine when Bryan weighs about as much as one of Brocks meals but then Tessa beating Sami is such an issue when Sami isn't a big guy, and neither is much of the Impact roster. Thats something this does have going for it here. Like it wouldn't work in WWE you couldn't have Tessa mix it up with guys like Brock, Orton, Corbin, Lashley, etc who tower over her.

    Ultimately if you're so concerned about what is believable Pro Wrestling seems like a weird thing to watch. I mean the WWE keep pretending Seth Rollins has a personality when he's one of the dullest charisma vacuums to ever exist. The very nature of Pro Wrestling is doing unbelievable things. I mean if someone climbs a turnbuckle and does some spastic failed gymnast 720 corkscrew monkey flip...why wouldn't you just take one step to the side? As I said before its a thread best left not picking at in my opinion. If beleivability is what matters then it makes sense that Brock is always the Universal Champion, no one if the WWE is believable to beat that guy.
    Competely agree with your last part.

    Worrying about realism is a dead end with pro wrestling. Just enjoy it for what it is....athletic theater
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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ETE View Post
    The thing with early UFC and the like is it was low level big guys, or just big guys who had zero grappling experience so guy's like Royce Gracie could easily beat them. But put a LW, WW, MW against a guy like Francis Ngaunu and it only ends one way, Francis takes their head off. When the big guys highly skilled like a Brock Lesnar its not at all believable that a guy like Daniel Bryan could actually beat him. There's also instances as well of women beating men. Some of the women in the UFC today that come from a Muay Thai background have faced and beat men. You'll find no shortage of videos online of women beating men.

    The thing with Ronda fighting men is how would her skillset comapre to 135 guys? or 145 guys? A guy like Mighty Mouse or Jose Aldo against someone with Ronda's skillset, thats a bad matchup not because its man vs woman but because the guys are so high level and Ronda's skillset was pretty one dimensional.

    I dont see how Bryan beating Brock is fine when Bryan weighs about as much as one of Brocks meals but then Tessa beating Sami is such an issue when Sami isn't a big guy, and neither is much of the Impact roster. Thats something this does have going for it here. Like it wouldn't work in WWE you couldn't have Tessa mix it up with guys like Brock, Orton, Corbin, Lashley, etc who tower over her.

    Ultimately if you're so concerned about what is believable Pro Wrestling seems like a weird thing to watch. I mean the WWE keep pretending Seth Rollins has a personality when he's one of the dullest charisma vacuums to ever exist. The very nature of Pro Wrestling is doing unbelievable things. I mean if someone climbs a turnbuckle and does some spastic failed gymnast 720 corkscrew monkey flip...why wouldn't you just take one step to the side? As I said before its a thread best left not picking at in my opinion. If beleivability is what matters then it makes sense that Brock is always the Universal Champion, no one if the WWE is believable to beat that guy.
    While I can't agree with everything you state in your post, I will say that the final paragraph/section is something I can somewhat agree with. I'll go down fighting by saying putting the world title on a woman was/is the wrong idea and is literally a shock value that isn't necessary/needed.

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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfan View Post
    Competely agree with your last part.

    Worrying about realism is a dead end with pro wrestling. Just enjoy it for what it is....athletic theater
    I've always looked at Pro Wrestling as just a TV show. Its not going to be realistic, its not going to be true to life. But thats TV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Kid View Post
    While I can't agree with everything you state in your post, I will say that the final paragraph/section is something I can somewhat agree with. I'll go down fighting by saying putting the world title on a woman was/is the wrong idea and is literally a shock value that isn't necessary/needed.
    And honestly, fair enough.

    The big thing for me was in an Era where actual well done feuds are nearly extinct, engaging storylines, defined badguys being bad and defined good guys actually be good and likable, the Tessa v Sami angle delivered all of that. Its the angle that has kept me somewhat interested in Pro Wrestling as nearly everything else thesedays is garbage. Its the angle that got me back into Impact where I was pleasantly surprised to see that while not perfect Impact is doing more things right than the other guys. Its been an engaging story with a great payoff at the end of it. I just dont see the point in getting hung up over realism, I mean if Sami's such a miserable lowlife why wouldn't he just get oVe to help him bludgeon Tessa at the start of the match and get DQ'd or have her unable to continue and retain that way. There's too many threads there if you start worrying about it being realistic, every cowardly heel ever would just kick their opponent in the nuts or buy off referees in real life.




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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Tessa/Sami has turned me around on intergender quite a bit, but I do wish it was a self contained feud so Tessa is just getting the best of the biggest heel in the company and the story ends there, rather than her win the world title that changes everything for EVERYONE in the promotion going forward. I actually have no problem with what ETE is saying about you can't say it's unbelievable that Tessa could beat a man within the realm of wrestling when smaller guys can beat giants all the time, but the knock on effect of what comes after this is what concerns me. By default the womens title now means less than it did a few months ago because your top woman in the company isn't interested in that title anymore, she wants the one the men were fighting after. Why should any woman challenge Taya now for her title when Tessa has the world title? is the world title now up for grabs for everyone? can women go after any title so we can have female tag teams going up against the North? Now you've made the decision to go with Tessa as a world champion, is everything else fair game now? where does the line go?

    Also, there are going to be some people in that company that do not want to do intergender so there opportunities just became limited. Michael Elgin is someone who I think most people would consider one of Impact's top stars, even more so now Cage is going to AEW, but there's absolutely no way I see that guy wrestling intergender anytime soon with the abuse allegations (now dropped) that he had to go through in the last year so you're really short of options I think for people to challenge Tessa that look good on paper.

    The positive of all this is that it's a pretty good test to see whether intergender wrestling is a draw for Impact, see if it increases ratings and buy rates at all or whether intergender wrestling is just something a few people hype up online but it's not really what the wider audience want. I'm still strong in my beliefs that the WWE approach of elevating the womens titles to be thought of as on par with your male world titles is the way forward to increase interest in womens wrestling.

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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ETE View Post
    Ultimately if you're so concerned about what is believable Pro Wrestling seems like a weird thing to watch. I mean the WWE keep pretending Seth Rollins has a personality when he's one of the dullest charisma vacuums to ever exist. The very nature of Pro Wrestling is doing unbelievable things. I mean if someone climbs a turnbuckle and does some spastic failed gymnast 720 corkscrew monkey flip...why wouldn't you just take one step to the side? As I said before its a thread best left not picking at in my opinion. If beleivability is what matters then it makes sense that Brock is always the Universal Champion, no one if the WWE is believable to beat that guy.
    Great post

    I will add that the context behind a promotion is also key. It's always gonna be more acceptable in wacky companies like CHIKARA and less in sports-based promotions like New Japan. Impact didn't just do this overnight, they built to it naturally, which is why it's come off so well

    I simply view intergender as another niche in pro wrestling, in the same vein as deathmatch, lucha, comedy, etc. Different strokes for different folks



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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Just my opinion but i think the championships looked way better with the blue accents than the red.

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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BXSTXRD View Post
    Just my opinion but i think the championships looked way better with the blue accents than the red.
    I agree with you on that one.

    It was definitely a more striking look.
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    Re: Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill Discussion

    Thought Sami vs Tessa was really strong, borderline great. I liked the Slammiversary match but this felt better. Great leg work from Sami and he was really great at controlling the match and building it up as it went. He telegraphs some stuff too much but you can't say he holds back because Tessa's a woman. She sold the leg great too, actually its quite remarkable the match worked as well as it did for an intergender match where the guy destroyed the woman's leg and she still got a believable win.

    Can't say I have much future interest in Tessa's reign as champ, but thats partly because of the Impact roster and this fued had a novelty too it. I did make me want to see Sami do much more in future though.

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