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Thread: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    Lol uh what the fuck did I read about the women's ladder match. Charlotte concussed Kairi? Then proceeded to slap her post-spear for botching it? And then people are speculating Kairi was slapping Charlotte's elbow in panic because she didn't want to take the table spot? I saw some .gifs and Kairi's body looked absolutely limp, and did not look like she was just selling.

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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    The sad thing is, its very 2019 Charlotte to just go "screw you, you're taking this bump and making me look good". She's been pretty damn terrible in the way she works and way she refuses to work with others at times this year.

    I've seen the clips and gifs and Kairi pretty obviously wasn't there, and apparently has a history of concussion's. Charlotte doesn't look good just refusing to acknowledge that or give a shit about it, especially when it seems to be Charlottes recklessness and indifference that concussed Kairi in the first place.




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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    I'm thankful even with plenty of WWE fans in my bubble, I missed those people EC was talking about that were blaming Kairi for getting concussed. Though unfortunately there were some Charlotte superfans angrily defending her at people analyzing Charlotte endangering another performer seemingly out of spite.

    Charlotte is an absolutely atrocious pro wrestler and should be embarrassed about her performance, yet again and for once not JUST because she can't execute simple maneuvers like usual. When she slapped Kairi out of frustration it was pathetic and I don't even wanna talk about her more.

    I don't want to give too much away but actually I think that match is fascinating to watch. I'm not normally Becky's biggest fan in-ring but she deserves a lot of credit for trying to keep that match on the rails. She really didn't because it was a terrible match at the end of the day but if you look at her spots closely how she handled Kairi, she did a great job constantly trying to audible spots to keep Kairi out of harm's way, guide her through even simple stuff and get her through it. That's all you can do when someone's out of it and she really QB'd the match as best she could. Credit to Asuka too for trying to make things work on her own. They should be proud of what they did out there in a sad situation. Even without the injury what was with the ropes? That spot was completely goofy and took forever.

    The whole show was really bad, though both Andrade/Carrillo and Black/Murphy were well worth watching. The ladder match was an average outing and everything else was actively bad.

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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    I'm all for a bit of edgeness to my wrestling but from what I heard, it sounds pretty bad. I'd have to watch for myself. They probably should've done a spot that took Kairi out of the match instead of her continuing because even the simplistic of spots can aggravate concussions.

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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I'm thankful even with plenty of WWE fans in my bubble, I missed those people EC was talking about that were blaming Kairi for getting concussed.
    Huh? I was talking about the fans in the arena loudly booing the unsuccessful table spot and the botched spear.
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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    So ROH gets tons of flack about lack of concussion protocols and WWE allows a talent to work with one during a high bumping match?

    Why hasnt Joey Mercury said anything yet?
    Last edited by indyfan; 12-16-2019 at 11:32 AM.
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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfan View Post
    So ROH gets tons of flack about lack of concussion protocols and WWE allows a talent work with one one during the match?

    Why hasnt Joey Mercury said anything yet?
    Well... maybe WWE does deserve some shit for this. But just given how everything went down, I'm thinking it took a while for everyone to realize Kairi was concussed. Even though if you are a professional, it was probably pretty damn obvious. I don't know. I think they removed her from the equation as quickly as possible once everyone figured out what was going on. Unfortunately by that time, she had already taken several more bumps. Hopefully she's not too badly hurt.
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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    This situation has literally nothing to do with ROH or Joey Mercury.

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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    Well... maybe WWE does deserve some shit for this. But just given how everything went down, I'm thinking it took a while for everyone to realize Kairi was concussed. Even though if you are a professional, it was probably pretty damn obvious. I don't know. I think they removed her from the equation as quickly as possible once everyone figured out what was going on. Unfortunately by that time, she had already taken several more bumps. Hopefully she's not too badly hurt.
    If the fans noticed it....the doctors at ringside noticed it.

    i just find it funny that Joey Mercury slammed ROH and their refs and compared how amazing WWEs concussion protocols are.

    and then this happens.

    the match should of stopped

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    This situation has literally nothing to do with ROH or Joey Mercury.
    When he was tweeting and putting over WWEs amazing concussion protocol to burn ROH at stake, i feel the comparrison is easily drawn
    Last edited by indyfan; 12-16-2019 at 11:45 AM.
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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    This situation has literally nothing to do with ROH or Joey Mercury.
    That too.

    And I'll add for what it's worth, I opened Instagram this morning and there were tons of comments on WWE's posts about how Kairi was concussed and shouldn't have continued working. I'm sure the same is happening on Twitter, Reddit and practically anywhere else that people discuss wrestling.
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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    I skimmed through the match, I thought the concussion already happened before she started awkwardly botching throwing chairs in the ring and Becky and Charlotte looked stunned.

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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Marketh View Post
    I skimmed through the match, I thought the concussion already happened before she started awkwardly botching throwing chairs in the ring and Becky and Charlotte looked stunned.
    Well, it could have been when Becky through the monitor/tablet and it bounced off the back of Kairi's head. Maybe it was even when the chair came back and hit her in the face (though that seems least likely.) But I think it might have actually happened when Charlotte did the exploder suplex into the barricade. I think if you watch from that point on, she didn't really seem to be moving the same after that. But then again, it could have happened at any point, really. Whatever the case, I'm not going to assume Charlotte knew and just said "fuck you, you're getting this powerbomb". I mean, Kairi had just attempted to do the flying splash through the table right before that. So in fairness, I don't think she had a reason to think Kairi was badly hurt if she was still trying to do high risk spots. I'm pretty sure it was after the powerbomb happened that Asuka went over and Kairi communicated to her that something was up. And then they went over and told Becky and Charlotte. And then Kairi was quickly taken out of the match. Bottom line is I don't think Charlotte deserves too much shit for this. Except for her slapping Kairi after the spear because that purely unprofessional on her part. But yeah, until we hear the story from the people in the match, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that Charlotte knowingly powerbombed a concussed opponent through a table.
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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    Well, it could have been when Becky through the monitor/tablet and it bounced off the back of Kairi's head. Maybe it was even when the chair came back and hit her in the face (though that seems least likely.) But I think it might have actually happened when Charlotte did the exploder suplex into the barricade. I think if you watch from that point on, she didn't really seem to be moving the same after that. But then again, it could have happened at any point, really. Whatever the case, I'm not going to assume Charlotte knew and just said "fuck you, you're getting this powerbomb". I mean, Kairi had just attempted to do the flying splash through the table right before that. So in fairness, I don't think she had a reason to think Kairi was badly hurt if she was still trying to do high risk spots. I'm pretty sure it was after the powerbomb happened that Asuka went over and Kairi communicated to her that something was up. And then they went over and told Becky and Charlotte. And then Kairi was quickly taken out of the match. Bottom line is I don't think Charlotte deserves too much shit for this. Except for her slapping Kairi after the spear because that purely unprofessional on her part. But yeah, until we hear the story from the people in the match, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that Charlotte knowingly powerbombed a concussed opponent through a table.
    do you actually think wed hear anything from the people in the match though?

    Charlotte should have to face the music for slapping her.

    Either way....they have ringside crew there to notice these things. someone didnt do their job if she was too banged up to continue
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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfan View Post
    do you actually think wed hear anything from the people in the match though?

    Charlotte should have to face the music for slapping her.

    Either way....they have ringside crew there to notice these things. someone didnt do their job if she was too banged up to continue
    Years down the line, probably.

    As for the ringside crew, I do agree with you. But also, if she says she's fine, don't they have to kinda use their discretion? I mean, it wasn't blatantly apparent something was wrong until right around the powerbomb spot, I'd say. Everything up until that moment, you could chalk up to just being botched, really. And after that she didn't actually take any offense. So, it's just a tough situation all around. It's a shitty predicament and it could have been avoided, but it's also kind of easy to see how things did manage to devolve to that point.
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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    I think EC is right about the barricade spot but she might have been seeing stars before that. As much as Charlotte is worthy of criticism for being sloppy all the time, I don't think it's fair to blame her for injuring Kairi...at first. In all honesty accidents do happen. The problem comes to what happened after, from between the slap which was flagrant and the powerbomb which Kairi was at best struggling with and at worst actively fighting it because she didn't want to take it which is what it looked like, although I don't believe that is true because of her and others spirit, nearly every wrestler wants to finish no matter how injured they be and do their best. I just think she wasn't in her wherewithal to take it accordingly. So what does Charlotte do? Either way fuck it, just overpower her and slam her for it anyway. Again in a best/worse case scenario, the best is she was negligent when literally everyone could see her opponent was concussed, including Ray Charles and because she's not very talented HAD to go through her designated spots in her robot WWE match until real wrestlers were able to guide her through an alternate gameplan. In the worst case, which the slap and the unnecessary force on the powerbomb is evidence of is true, she knew she was injured and purposely tried to hurt her in frustration, which is reprehensible on any level.

    To me, she should be suspended for the actions themselves, and fired if she did it on purpose. Of course in reality because IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GAME and we know her connections (Wooooo) she'll probably get off with little repercussions whatsoever, if anything Kairi will probably get depushed because she's too fragile to work with Charlotte in WWE's warped world.

    EC, you've got to be kidding me about it not being apparent. Everyone I saw pointed it out that she wasn't ok easily during the match, and Becky knew quickly as well. Charlotte either knew or has the lowest ring IQ in wrestling history.

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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    I think the point where she got knocked loopy was when Becky and Charlotte were tossing those monitors, and the monitor that Charlotte threw was still attached to a string and it swung over and got Kairi in the head. The spot into the barricade probably didn’t help matters much either.
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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    That main event was truly rough and finding out that Sane spent the majority of it concussed adds some much needed context to it all. Disgusting stuff from Charlotte and i hope she's held liable for her actions (although i highly doubt it considering the carny nature of the WWE), the slap itself was nothing short of unprofessional and for someone whose been around for as long as she has and competes at the level she does she should have noticed that something wasn't right and adjusted her match strategy accordingly.

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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    EC, you've got to be kidding me about it not being apparent. Everyone I saw pointed it out that she wasn't ok easily during the match, and Becky knew quickly as well. Charlotte either knew or has the lowest ring IQ in wrestling history.
    Eh. With the chair bouncing back at her and then the botched table spot, I definitely thought there was something wrong with her, but at that point my assumption was more that she was off her game, not that she had a concussion. When she didn't take the spear right, I started to feel like it could have been something more. When she couldn't/wouldn't get up for the powerbomb, then it was obvious she was hurt somehow. Like I said, her whole body language was definitely off after the suplex into the barricade, but it's especially easy to say that after I've rewatched the match, knowing what was coming. There had to be some miscommunication or negligence on the part of the staff that after that she tried the elbow onto Becky on the ladder and the dive through the table. Not that I think someone needs to be blamed in this situation, but clearly Kairi wasn't upfront about her condition when the injury happened. Or if she was, the ringside workers failed to do their job. In my opinion, Charlotte knowing Kairi was concussed and still going through with the powerbomb is one of the more unlikely possibilities. Unless I'm forgetting something, Becky really didn't have anything to do with Kairi between the suplex and when they all got back into the ring, which is after the point where I believe Kairi let everyone know she was hurt. Good on Becky for protecting Kairi in their skirmish on the floor, but I believe Charlotte would have done the same if she was fully aware of Kairi's condition. Charlotte was undoubtedly in the wrong for losing her temper. It was also dumb on her part to not consider that maybe Kairi was injured when she couldn't get up to take the powerbomb. All I'm saying is I don't think she knew or considered that maybe Kairi was concussed when she did the powerbomb. Obviously, I hope she learns from this and is more aware of he actions going forward.
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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    First couple matches on this show were home runs.

    Andrade vs Carillo has to be one of the best pre-show matches in memory and was a total case for Andrade to get pushed way above this position. Guys wrestled with a sense of aggression and urgency and made this feel like a PPV-level match when it could have been an easy ride for him. The hardway blood, desperation late in the match and the big spots all made this a step above. Carillo is a bland guy in terms of personality but his flying is all really pretty and hit flawlessly. I'd question the wisdom of a poison-rana on the pre-show, but it is TLC and the finish was great.

    New Day vs Revival was great, and again showed that if you give either of these teams time and the platform they will deliver. Great mix of nasty, violent bumps and Southern tag structure with Revival isolating both Kofi and Big E at certain points. I like how Kofi has become a guy who uses his athleticism to get the better of his opponents rather than just do highlight reel spots, and him getting the win felt like a feelgood moment after his world title loss. Everyone rules in this match and it felt really dangerous and hate-filled.

    I'm not sold on either Buddy or Black and their match was OK. It was a step above a RAW match thanks to the hardway blood and Buddy's aggression, but Black is such a pound-shop Low Ki and this was nothing memorable.

    Raider and OC don't have a good match in them, lets just get the titles off them and on to AOP and move on.

    skipped through Roman vs Corbin because it sounds terrible. If they wanted to go the clusterfuck route they should have atleast had Ali and G come to Roman's aid for a bit. Corbin is the most over-pushed Vince project in forever, get rid.


    Bray vs Miz was an angle more than a match, which even though I am so over the Fiend was ultimately fine for what they wanted to accomplish. Whether this should be a world title program or not, well... Bryan return with classic look was atleast very cool and may trick me into being excited for a Fiend match against my better judgement. Personally I think the Wyatt gimmick would have been better if it had been like Festus 2.0 rather than a full split personality deal.

    Main event had some good parts but was overall way too long, with too many awkward/sloppy moments. Unfortunate that Sane got a concussion (has that been confirmed?) but even without that it wasn't that good.


    EDIT - Can we also talk about how fucking terrible Jerry Lawler was on commentary for this show? Relics like him and JR need to be gone from the booth if they don't give a shit enough to put the talent wrestling over
    Last edited by King Steventon; 12-16-2019 at 04:44 PM.

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    Re: WWE TLC 2019 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfan View Post
    If the fans noticed it....the doctors at ringside noticed it.

    i just find it funny that Joey Mercury slammed ROH and their refs and compared how amazing WWEs concussion protocols are.

    and then this happens.

    the match should of stopped



    When he was tweeting and putting over WWEs amazing concussion protocol to burn ROH at stake, i feel the comparrison is easily drawn
    Sorry, but are you saying that with the intent to try and defend ROH over their shitty treatment of women, talent, concussion protocol, etc? I know that's probably your favourite company, but trying to defend anything Joey blasted them for is inexcusable. Also as Zero said, this literally has nothing to do with Joey or ROH.

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