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Thread: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

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    All Elite Wrestling Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Full Gear has come and gone which means AEW has officially completed their first PPV with weekly TV builds. Obviously there's still a lot of runway left for them to change or adapt but now seems as good a time as any to step back and evaluate how AEW is doing as a wrestling promotion through their first true test. So let's have a conversation about what we like and what we don't about AEW at this point, and what they need to do going forward.

    I'll start with my pluses:

    + Match quality, as anticipated, hasn't been a significant issue. Giving talented wrestlers time to show off their stuff is a proven winning formula and AEW has done a good job of staying out of the way.

    + The roster depth hasn't been challenged in the early weeks with people mostly healthy and the two hour shows largely focusing on the tag division and some main event feuds, but so far most people who appear on AEW TV have been built well and the divisions appear deep. The world title has viable challengers in Jericho, Omega, Mox, Pac, and Page, and guys like Darby Allin, Shawn Spears, and MJF have even been given enough to do that they'd be good fill-in challengers as well.

    + Tag division has been the highlight of the company for me thusfar. Tag team matches have been pretty fun overall, and you have a deep division with all the tournament entrants plus Proud + Powerful on the outside of that field. There should be a lot for SCU to do in the near future.

    + The production feels bigtime enough, while still having enough of that rustic, indie feel to make them feel just a bit different from the WWE. I'd prefer better sound mixing with the wrestler themes but overall the show and PPVs have been produced well, especially for a first effort.

    + I'll have a gripe on storylines but before I do that I would like to praise the storytelling for staying away from bad shit mostly and sticking to tried and true wrestling stories that haven't been too complicated but have gotten the point across. Mox and Omega build may have underwhelmed me but it was still more competent than most WWE storylines.

    And some of the concerns I have:

    - Match quality is actually too good, and what I mean there is that while the 15-20 matches often end up being entertaining, TV matches like Pac vs. Trent or Spears vs. Cutler are longer than they need to be. These are essentially enhancement matches for Pac and Spears that could benefit from shaving off a few minutes and using that for other things AEW needs.

    - Promos! There's still not enough of them, and that's where that shaved time could easily go. A few backstage segments and story-telling bits could go a long way to improve the immediate product. I know you have AEW Dark to use for some further help but the flagship show could use a few more segments, particularly to keep some talent in the public eye who don't have anything else to do that week. It's a crime that Darby Allin has essentially vanished from Dynamite after his world title match.

    - My aforementioned gripe on storytelling is that while it has been competent, I don't think they're telling particularly compelling and addictive stories, especially outside of the Cody and Jericho feud. Give me some more hooks to tune in for next week that aren't just announcing a good match. The benefit of a weekly show is the amount of storytelling you can do with it, take advantage of it.

    - The women. Ed's harped on this point a lot, but with one match a week on average and no outside segments otherwise, we still don't know shit about anyone in the division except for Britt, and the matches haven't been special enough to draw that interest on their own. Gotta step up the game here.

    So where's AEW stand for you after their first big milestone as a weekly product? What do you like? What needs to improve?



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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    What I like:

    - The show is fresh, vibrant, feels must-see. It's how TV wrestling should feel but WWE outside of SD Live for 6 months hasn't felt like this in a looooooooong time.

    - Underneath the Elite, they have made an effort to make new stars. Sammy G comes off so much better in AEW than he did on the indies, Ortiz is beginning to shine in PnP, Darby Allin is a cult star, Private Party have gone from unknowns to a well liked act very quickly, Rhio despite the fact they never air packages on her is over due to her matches. I don't like Britt Baker, but I should include her here as well.

    - There's very few matches that outright suck. They might have a lot of boring yet technically sound matches, but I'm safe in the knowledge I'm not going to see something THE FIEND level bad watching AEW.

    - They've quickly realised that Jimmy Havoc is a hack and a mistake of a signing

    - Anything with Jericho and Cody, those two, ironically enough two guys with the most TV wrestling experience, know how to make their segments come to life.

    What I don't like:

    - I'll start with one everyone can agree with, they are great at video packages, so stop shying away from airing them! They did a bad job hyping up half of their PPV, I shouldn't have to wait until the countdown show to see two great packages for PnP/Bucks and Rhio/Sakura. Those should of been aired on Dynamite, and they had the time to air them because they found time for Brandi's lucha underground audition tape. They nail the type of interviews and builds I want to see in modern wrestling with their 'road to xxxx' youtube videos, case in point the Cody Vs Sammy video on the first ever episode. I want more of that, drop a weekly 3 star 15 minute Best Friends match for a video interview.

    - Not every match needs to be over 10 minutes just to prove some kind of point to WWE/WWE fans that you have good wrestling. A 2 minute squash sometimes is more effective than going back and forth with Brandon Cutler for too long.

    - Moxley doesn't talk enough on the show and is being pigeon holed as a hardcore wrestler. He is one of their few legit stars and they aren't getting anywhere near enough out of his signing.

    - Creatively the show is still a hodge-podge of ideas. You can have different styles of matches on the show, that's welcome, but the show feels like every segment was produced by a different EVP and there's no clear theme of the show, there's no one booking mantra here, everyones going for something different and it's not making a coherent product. The womens division is either a joshi themed division, or a horrible supernatural SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT~ divas division to hide the flaws of wrestlers who can't wrestle a joshi style. Cody is going for an NWA/WCW vibe for all his programs, but the other heavyweight main eventers are doing hardcore matches. Young Bucks meanwhile are trying to get over this great tag division, but everyone wrestles exactly the same, even the Dark Order who again are some supernatural gimmick.

    - Dare I say it, an air of nepotism is showing with how the only hyped up matches for Full Gear were matches that involved the Elite, they are the main focus of most TV shows, and Cody's wife is getting way more mic time than any other woman in the company.

    - 5 straight weeks of only one womens match. That's fine if that's your deal, but it opens you up to criticism when you spent the year virtue signalling online and making bold claims about being progressive and the women will earn the same as the men.

    - Too many lights out matches, and too much wins and loses matter here until they don't because it's a booking headache to keep up with.

    - JR is a relic who needs to be given the boot like Alex Marvez (or whatever his name was) was. No Tony last night brought out the worst in grumpy old JR.

    - They are rushing feuds. As much as I've loved Cody's programs this year, everything is a one match and done project with him and it's leading to some rushed conclusions. That might seem a bit harsh, but they are now in the position of booking 3 hours of matches a week, and they do not have the biggest roster, you can stretch some of these money matches out more than just doing them once and moving onto something else. For example, Jericho has already wrestled Omega, Cody, Page and Darby, once he's faced Moxley is there many other big matches left for him?

    - More care on booking heels and babyfaces. I love Orange Cassidy, but PAC Vs Trent this week was essentially a 3 on 1 handicap match where the babyfaces were cheating. Lucha Bros are supposed to be dastardly heels but any interest in their characters has been wasted by them playing up to the crowds because they still want to be cheered, nothing about their work has changed at all.

    Overall

    I've enjoyed AEW since Dynamite started, to the point where I put down money to buy the PPV legally last night, but there's quite a few points I've listed that they should be doing better in because they really aren't difficult things to fix.
    Last edited by Ed; 11-10-2019 at 08:53 PM.

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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Honestly best part of Full Gear was Rock and Roll Express doing dives and sunset flip powerbombs. Jesus that was amazing.

    I thought Mox vs. Omega was good I think my biggest gripe and my fathers as well is Omega booking hes lost every match that matters granted he needed to lose to Mox but PAC no!


    Riho I cant take seriously as a champion. I am sorry but 85 pound girl beat a 200+ monster in Nyla Rose who should of won at the last ppv.

    MJF heel turn that everyone saw coming....


    Another postive I love Spears and Tully. Janela Havoc and Darby all look great to and Joeys maych with Spears was decent enough.

    Orange Cassidy out here proving even if your a comedy wrestler dont mean you cant be great in the ring.

    I heard Tazz was on the buy in add him with JR and Tony get that masked dude out of there.
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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Excalibur is the best part of that team...JR fucking sucks dude...I’m not even sure I can even understand how anyone can think “the masked guy” is the problem with the commentary booth


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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    My Likes:

    -
    The variety of wrestling types offered. On any given show, you'll see technical style, Joshi, hardcore, tag teams, Lucha style, high-flying, etc. It keeps everything interesting as a viewer and increases the chance of you liking at least one thing that's offered like a buffet.

    - The production combined with the hot crowds have made Dynamite a really fun show to watch. Every episode feels important, engaging and must-see.

    - The unscripted nature of the program is very fresh, natural and welcoming. The creative freedom given to the wrestlers is really awesome to see.

    - I truly believe AEW has the best tag division in wrestling currently. A lot of exciting, talented teams we get to see each week.

    - Match quality is usually good to excellent. The chances of you seeing a bad match on Dynamite are few and far between.

    - Tony and Excalibur are awesome on commentary. I really enjoy hearing them each week. I think they would be the perfect 2-man booth.

    - I think Tony Khan is a great owner with a passion for wrestling. His enthusiam and dedication to AEW is awesome and I think that's trickled from the top down to the talent.

    - I love how AEW strives to put the fans first and is eager to hear our praises and criticisms. I feel like our voices are being heard and we have some influence over the product we see, no matter how small that may be. I just think they really care about making the fans happy at the end of the day.

    My Dislikes:

    - The women's division has been poorly built up from day one. I'm sure visa/travelling issues and ladies not being available due to being contracted to other promotions has been an issue but it has really felt like the women are an afterthought. They barely get promos and we just don't know much about any of them except that Britt Baker is a dentist and Riho is 98 pounds. Speaking of Britt, she was the wrong one to try to build the division around. Yeah, she has the look but her in-ring skills are solely lacking. She just doesn't seem to have much of a personality either. I'd much prefer Shanna or Hikaru Shida, for example, to be the top stars.

    - Matches generally go on for too long. I'm sure it's to help get some of the younger and/or unknown talent more exposure and experience but it's getting to the point where no one looks stronger than the anyone else because everyone is facing each other in 15-20 minute matches with 8 false finishes.

    - The amount of suicide dives. This is a general problem in wrestling today. On Dynamite alone, you'll see at least 5-6 per show. I'm so over this move, it has absolutely no effect on me.

    - Already too many unsanctioned matches. It feels like an out to avoid someone big from losing. After seeing Mox/Omega at Full Gear, I don't want to see another unsanctioned match for a long while.

    - Lack of promos/segments. AEW may be the best company today at producing these but we barely see them on Dynamite. We need to see more Road To type segments on the show.

    - Storylines are featured on too many mediums. Sometimes you'll see an important storyline advancement on BTE. The next day, you see another progression on AEW Dark. Then you see something else on Dynamite. I know they're strapped for time on TV but they need to focus on showing storylines on the main show first. I bet most fans that watch Dynamite aren't watching BTE or Dark.

    - JR is too hit or miss on commentary. Some days he's on it, other days I want to put him on mute. I don't like how he rags on Excalibur for knowing the technical names for moves that are different from what he knows, he comes across as petty and crabby.


    Overall, I've been very impressed with the product so far. They started 11 months ago and are officially 6 weeks into their TV show and certain things keep improving. I'm excited for what's to come!



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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    I really can't add much to what Ed and Silk have offered up. I'm pretty much in agreement with or at least understand where they're coming from with their judgments. To me, the BIGGEST things they need to change is make more time for promos and interviews and they need to change their approach with programming. Fans shouldn't have to watch their YouTube shows, except maybe Dark, to see storylines develop. And they shouldn't rely on fans being "in the know" to make sense of or enjoy the stories. What I'm saying is someone who doesn't watch Being The Elite or the Road To videos shouldn't be left in the dark because all the information someone should need about storylines should be covered on Dynamite.

    Honestly best part of Full Gear was Rock and Roll Express doing dives and sunset flip powerbombs. Jesus that was amazing.

    I heard Tazz was on the buy in add him with JR and Tony get that masked dude out of there.
    That first statement is almost sad to me. But hey, if that stuff does it for you, more power to you.

    As for the second, I have to disagree with you. Taz, JR and Tony just screams second rate. I feel like you need at least one guy there who isn't closely tied to WWE or a company that WWE devoured, or in Taz's case... both. Otherwise, I think fans are going to immediately get the impression this company is trying to copy WWE or leach off "stars off the past". Which, admittedly, with Jericho as World Champion, a lot of people will probably already get that vibe. But I think you gotta mix in some originality where you can. However, I can get on board with Taz at the desk permanently. But it would be JR who I got rid of, not Excalibur. One guy actually knows the moves, wrestler's backgrounds and seems to enjoy calling the show and the other just doesn't.
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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Yeah Excalibur is very needed in commentary and is great at it in my opinion. I think even JR called him a wrestling encyclopedia that he's always learning from so yeah. Excalibur is just fine where he is. I find that most people that have a problem with him is due to him wearing his mask which I don't see as such a big deal. Also, yes, Taz needs to get signed to AEW. I would love that. I won't be surprised if he already is, I heard rumors about him teasing having a signed a deal somewhere.



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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    If I'm to offer one different opinion, it's that whilst I like the tag division, I'm not a fan of how the tournament and first champs was done. SCU feel like the least interesting choice of champions available, and it felt a lot like the Bucks/LAX was the bigger tag match heading into Full Gear which isn't a great look for your new titles.

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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Postman Dave View Post
    If I'm to offer one different opinion, it's that whilst I like the tag division, I'm not a fan of how the tournament and first champs was done. SCU feel like the least interesting choice of champions available, and it felt a lot like the Bucks/LAX was the bigger tag match heading into Full Gear which isn't a great look for your new titles.

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    had they not run the tournament so quickly the final could of been at Full Gear which would of been better than doing a triple threat with no build involved. I guess they wanted some big things for their TV show though in the first month.

    SCU aren’t exciting champs, but they are solid hands and I think they see value in Pentagon as a singles act judging by the Daniels feud set up on Saturday so that’s probably why they went with them as inaugural champs.

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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    I always thought Pentagon was the bigger star of the two, but honestly, I'm not too sure anymore

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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Booty Love View Post
    Excalibur is the best part of that team...JR fucking sucks dude...I’m not even sure I can even understand how anyone can think “the masked guy” is the problem with the commentary booth


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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    had they not run the tournament so quickly the final could of been at Full Gear which would of been better than doing a triple threat with no build involved. I guess they wanted some big things for their TV show though in the first month.

    SCU aren’t exciting champs, but they are solid hands and I think they see value in Pentagon as a singles act judging by the Daniels feud set up on Saturday so that’s probably why they went with them as inaugural champs.
    Yeah, completely understand needing big stuff early on for TV, won't begrudge them that.





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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Getting new people like Darby Allin over, although I'm confused as for why he wasn't on the PPV or build to it. Jake Hager's wrestling career is revived. Riho is hugely popular.

    Tony Schiavone is great. Tony, from what I've seen of hi WCW work, has mostly great but his last few years there gave him a bad rep but he totally sheds that here. His enthusiasm is infectious.

    PPVs are generally good. Some of them aren't as good as others but they are generally fun experiences.

    Main event guys come across as such.

    What I don't like:

    Every match is just inter-changeable. The TV matches aren't varied enough. There are some squash matches, thankfully, but the TV matches that aren't squashes just feel the same and don't stand out in any way. They aren't memorable in anyway. The only thing that comes to mind when I think PAC vs Trent is the finish and nothing else. I'm struggling to think of other examples of TV matches right now.

    The tag team division isn't very good. It's kinda deep but other than Private Party, who really haven't impressed since the Bucks match, none of the teams are interesting in anyway. I hate the Lucha Bros and prefer Fenix on his own. SCU are really boring and I don't care for any of them. I like the Best Friends but there matches don't stand out much either. I go on and off on the Bucks.

    Jim Ross. I don't need to say any more.

    With last week's Dynamite being the exception, the weekly tv shows can be a drag to sit through and they don't hook me into needing to see next week's show.

    The women's division not having much care to it. Where are most of the women that was in the battle royal? Nyla Rose? After being a big fixture in the first few months, we've not heard of her since. Sadie Gibbs hasn't been seen. Maybe they are punishing her for attacking Bea backstage, apparently. I thought Ivelisse was signed as well? There is tons of women out there that are begging to be signed like Nicole Savoy and Madison Eagles and yet nothing. They are relying on limited people and fly ins from Tokyo Joshi Pro and Gatoh Move.

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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by MC 16 View Post
    The tag team division isn't very good. It's kinda deep but other than Private Party, who really haven't impressed since the Bucks match, none of the teams are interesting in anyway. I hate the Lucha Bros and prefer Fenix on his own. SCU are really boring and I don't care for any of them. I like the Best Friends but there matches don't stand out much either. I go on and off on the Bucks.
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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Jesus, I can't fathom HATING The Lucha Bros. I love those guys together or solo. An absolute joy to watch.

    And SCU to me are at least very entertaining in promos. In ring I don't feel they bring anything unique to the table but they have value in that they'll probably never have any inexplicable bad matches.
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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Lucha Bros work the same boring spotfest every match. Fenix does some spectacular stuff, but Pentagon is an absolute load who spends 90% of the time playing to the crowds. Someone needs to teach these guys if they are going to be heels, how to actually wrestle as heels.

    People rave about the tag division but WWE has way better talent in theirs, it's just that AEW book theirs better and clearly take it more seriously.


    The biggest positive so far has been the presentation and the fact they clearly love wrestling and aren't embarrassed by that. whereas WWE at time feels like a wrestling show that hates wrestling and hates its fans. AEW seem to want to give the fans what they want, which is a great thing, but how long they can keep it going will be harder than the first month or so. Otherwise I largely agree with Ed's points.

    There are still some big signings they can make which would drastically increase the quality of what's on TV, but I can't fault them for being committed to the guys they have at present. BUT they really do need to learn restraint and mix up the styles a lot more. Everything that doesn't include Moxley, Cody or Darby is the same overly long workrate 2.9!!!! kickout match. They really need to break up the athleticism with some brawls, technical wrestling, more traditional style matches, whatever.

    I think everyone agrees they need more promos on TV. If they won't do that (for whatever stupid reason), they need to have guys do a lot more character work in their matches. What makes Adam Page a cowboy? What makes PNP gangstas? What makes Joey Janela bad boy? And so on.
    Last edited by King Steventon; 11-11-2019 at 05:18 PM.

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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    I can fathom hating Pentagon doing that taunt 7 or 8 times a match.

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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    i love the Lucha Bros but i agree the taunt has become overkill
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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
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    I don't like them much either.
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    Re: Full Gear Post-Mortem: Grading AEW's First Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by MC 16 View Post
    I don't like them much either.
    I'm really curious to know who your favorite tag team is and who you think has the best tag division right now.



    PROVERBS 3:5-6

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