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Thread: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

  1. #41
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Papa I am curious how does the game take in affect of real life death from a mod point say if you are working on something in 2001 if you keep playing up until 2005 do you put in some sort of info to say Eddie Guerrero died in this year or does it just go on and not take in affect?


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  2. #42
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    Papa I am curious how does the game take in affect of real life death from a mod point say if you are working on something in 2001 if you keep playing up until 2005 do you put in some sort of info to say Eddie Guerrero died in this year or does it just go on and not take in affect?
    There is nothing direct for that.

    The game does have deaths, but they are random incidents. There is even an option "Kenny Death" dynamic that makes the cause of death humorous things like "an incident with a squirrel".

    The game does have a mechanism called Narratives that can be set up in the mod by the mod-maker. And there are a lot of them. They can range from news stories that are for immersion only and have no game-world impact to financially crashing a company to changing the personality of a worker to changing the logo and even name of a company. There is no narrative for someone to die. Its been requested - a lot. But the developer has refused to allow you to kill off a worker that way, even if its for historical recreation. There are more narrative options being added for the new game, but I do not expect that one to be added.

    That said, while you can't "preset" the event to happen, you can remove someone from an active game-world using in the in-game editor. Not directly, and in certain circumstances it won't work (like if they own a company), but generally you can edit their contract and then their status.

    The hard part is that even if there was a mechanism to do it directly, it would still be debatable about whether it should be pre-set. Some would want it, because it emulates what actually happened. Others want the game world to unfold uniquely and therefore don't want it. You see this on a lot of mods with specific narratives. Some later 90s mods will have financial impact narratives that hit WCW and ECW, so they can die around when they really did. But you may not want that to happen and if you are playing as one of those companies, you definitely don't because it would make survival impossible. So you end up marking them so that anyone who plays the mod and checks can spot them and delete them if they want.

    One of a thousand small reasons that mod-making is a chore lol
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  3. #43
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Up to 234. Additions include Satoshi Kojima, Stephanie McMahon, Jim Smallman, Jim Ross, Renee Pacquette, Dean Malenko, and a handful of referees.

    So I kept think about adding all the non-wrestlers as being one big lump of data to add and then sort through. But.... it obviously doesn't have to be done that way. So I grabbed a few WWE folks and added them in. Stephanie (who is also the booker), Jim Ross, JBL, Renee Pacquette (or Renee Young, if you only know her from the WWE), a road agent (Dean Malenko) and 4 referees. I don't know WHY 4 of them, but 4 of them. So if I decided to test, that would be enough for the WWE to function. If they don't have any refs or road agents, they can't run shows. So this takes care of that without relying on the game to generate the workers.

    Its definitely faster for these workers. I still have to make there is a pic, check the worker details (faster than re-editing them all), check popularity, personality, and skills. But I don't have to worry much about gimmicks, there are no movesets to deal with, popularity matters significantly less, and there are generally only a few skills to look at. I am adding in employment history as much as possible.

    I figure I will drop a few in here and there, which will slowly add up over time and fill in those areas of need. Dropping one ref into an area with smaller companies, like adding Chris Roberts to the UK scene, will work for multiple companies as they will all hire him.

    Long-term, in terms of finishing out the mod, certain roles become... problematic. Road agents and refs mostly, but sometimes even announcers and commentators. It can be tough finding info for smaller companies regarding who they use in the announcers booth. Buts its awfully hard finding ref and agent info. As awesome as sites like Cagematch and Wrestlingdata are for tracking workers, they don't necessarily give us tons of info for the non-wrestlers. Which is fair enough - does anyone really care which ref was involved in the semi main event of Progress Chapter 3? Fuck no. But for the purpose of a mod like.... you need to know. And even when you know refs worked for a given company, it can be a pain to find out when. Like, I know Chris Roberts worked for Progress, Rev Pro, IWP-UK, and other companies.... but starting when? This is where I start to worry a bit less about being 100% accurate. If I know that Roberts worked for Attack, I'll contract him there rather than wasting a ton of time trying to dig up whether he was working there already in mid-2013.

    Road agents are even worse in terms of trying to find out who did what for what company. Cagematch can help a teeny bit in this regard. For some companies, they have a Current Roster page (rather than All-Time Roster page, which lets you search for who worked how many matches for that company in what year, which is massively helpful in figuring out the roster, but it only looks at wrestlers). That will sometimes list the non-wrestlers and roles they have. So... you can sometimes figure out using that info that a particular veteran wrestler is with the company but not doing commentary or managing or being a personality.... so they are a road agent. The other option is having veteran wrestlers with road agent as a possible role, so they can function with that. In certain regions, notably the UK, Australia, and Europe, I will probably try to have some veteran semi-active or even fully retired wrestlers who can do the role. Even if they actually haven't, its conceivable that they could so.... it works.

    Its not something I will worry about in the short term, but there is awareness there than in the long-term, to fill out the game world, those roles are necessary everywhere.

    Also, dealing with it makes me respect historical modders all the fucking more, because that shit is ridiculous to try to find for companies 30 years ago.
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  4. #44
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    242. Additions include the Dudley Boys, Dixie Carter, Tenille Dashwood, and a few referees in TNA and NJPW.

    Dixie Carter is a bit of an interesting one. I gave her a toxic personality. Which is a bit weird because I don't necessarily think she has a toxic personality. but it might be the best way to emulate her decisions in the game. I've asked Adam, the developer, about the best way to set up company to fail. Or at least moderate success. And there aren't a lot of ways. For rather obvious reasons - its counter-initiative. But to reasonably emulate TNA, you want them doing dumb things that hurt themselves. The self-harm wrestling company. If you set them up as a normal company, they will thrive because they have the talent to do so. So giving Dixie a very low Business skill was one thing. But giving her a toxic personality will help. I emulated the personality of Mark Carnie, a toxic owner in the Cverse who was the character used to introduce the feature. So that should lead to her doing some shady stuff (which TNA actually did and does), falling out with talent, having them ask for release, etc. If it turns out to be too much, I can scale it back. But it seems like a good starting point.

    Refs are definitely a pain. Its HARD to find when people joined companies. If I can even find a Wikipedia profile for them, it MIGHT have the year they joined. Its hardly a big deal that you can include their proper employment history, but if you start leaving it empty or partially done for some... it gets easier to get lazier on others. That's the piece I'm trying to avoid.

    I'm having a bit of fun with the bios. Not making them too goofy but a few digs here and there. I imagine one of them will offend someone, but its easy to edit, so.... Just stuff like Chris Roberts having a glass jaw, Dixie Carter being a money mark, and Zack Ryder proving that getting yourself over with the fans means nothing to the WWE.
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  5. #45
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    So put in a way too much time this weekend. Made it to... I don't fucking know... 280? I have added workers in clumps a couple of times. Like 15 or 20 at a time from one of the two mods. Then just slowly edit through them. There are 293 workers in there, but 13 left to edit so, yeah, 280 sounds right.

    Having added 40 over the weekend, I'm not going to try to recall everyone who has been added in. A few are owners or refs, but not that many. Primo and Epico Colon, BxB Hulk, Bestia 666, Davey Richards, Eddie Edwards, Alex Shelley, David Otunga, ACH, Akitoshi Saito, AR Fox, Atsushi Kotage, Nikki Storm, Great Sasuke, Layla El, Angelo Dawkins, Madison Eagles, Madison Rayne, Ben-K (future worker snuck in there), Soberano Jr, Masato Yoshino, Eric Young, Abdullah Kobayashi, Joe Doering.... After randomly grabbing workers from without any intentional focus, I started at the top of the list and worked my way down. Just trying to skip future workers. One the 13 that were imported but not edited yet are done, the list will be well under 250 names for males, and again, about 100 of those are yet to be picked.

    The women are still not getting equal attention. I try to make sure to drop in one or two every so often.

    When I added Primo and Epico, I decided to add World Wrestling Council. For some reason, I actually thought both WWC and IWA-PR had folded but both are still in operation. I can't find shows for IWA-PR for the past few years so no use adding them. I thought adding WWC might be interesting because the new sizing system on TEW 2020 should make Puerto Rico more accurate. And it gives Carly Colon somewhere to work. Both Primo and Epico have worked down there regularly while working for the WWE, which will be interesting to use the new contract types in TEW 2020.

    Its rather satisfying to feel like I'm starting to make a bit of a dent in that big list. Like I keep mentioning, I like that all the different areas of the game world are slowly filling in. Mexico still needs more attention but there should be a few more luchadors soon. The WWE and TNA undercards are filling in, and the women's divisions are both about half-way done in those companies. Definitely need to drop more women in, though.

    I might actually start to separate my tracking document into active workers and yet-to-debut workers, just so I don't keep accidentally grabbing yet-to-debut workers. they do need to go in at some point, but... not much point yet.

    Wasted a bunch of time on Friday trying to dig up info on whether the female DDT ref is still reffing or not.

    Am starting to feel like a few too many workers follow a similar model. Like there are ton of these indy guys who are starting to feel... samey. Its not the full-blown indy darlings I've added. The guys I'm more familiar with and therefore feel more confident on where they were at the time. Its the secondary indy darlings - talent that was just breaking out around this time and would become more renowned in the year or two after, and have mostly been signed by the bigger companies now. I just haven't seen as much of them, which makes me feel less confident in what they were at that time. These are:

    ACH
    AR Fox
    Andrew Everett
    Tony Nese
    Shane Strickland
    Rich Swann
    Trevor Lee

    A few of them are in the data already and the rest are waiting. But they all kind fall into the "Cruiserweight Special" build. Basically, they are fairly (to highly) athletic cruiserweights with decent brawling and technical skills, they call all talk reasonably well, pretty good performance skills aside from Psychology, and pretty good Star Quality. The problem with that basic build is that they all end up feeling cookie cutter. They are not - they are individual skilled. And honestly, a worker with Star Quality two grades higher is a different worker than a similar worker who has better Brawling. So they are not cookie cutter workers... it just feels that way a bit. With good SQ and Athleticism, their respective age (most are mid-20s), and regular work, they should all develop. Most will develop their brawling and technical skills to become good all-rounders. Some will develop their flying skills further and become truly world class high flying wrestlers. A few will become great talkers. And one or two will develop their Psychology to be really good in that regard. So they will differentiate as they develop, and from save to save. But I don't want to overskill them and have them all turn into god-level wrestlers either.
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  6. #46
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    So not much of an update. I would call it "unnecessary".... but pretty much all of these are.

    Just continuing to bang thru the big clump of workers imported. Down to like 4 left edited. Was working on Johnny Curtis (Fandango) but he's not quite finished. Eita Kobayashi, Enzo Amore, Elias Sampson, Hunico (Sin Cara II), and Jeff Cobb were among those edited in yesterday.

    Hunico / Sin Cara II / Incognito / Jorge Arias raised a small issue that I run into frequently, which is what name should the work go in under. Preferences on this vary - some people want workers going in under their most commonly used name, which would be the WWE name if they have worked there for any length of time. I haven't used the same approach for everyone, because situations differ. The Undertaker or Triple is not the same situation as Johnny Curtis / Fandango. Using their real name or indy name and having the WWE name as an alter ego generally works best, especially for workers who are going to be unable to use the WWE name after they leave the company. Jorge Arias might be unique in that I used his real name but I don't think he's ever actually wrestled under it. He worked as Mistico originally, which got changed when CMLL won the right to the name, then it changed to some variations of Mistico, then Incognito, then Hunico, then Sin Cara Negra, then Hunico again, then Sin Cara (which was actually Sin Cara II). There wasn't one single gimmick / name he used for any length so I figured this allows me to have most of them as alter egos (except the Mistico alts because that was for such a short time).

    Eita was just finishing up an excursion in Mexico. literally the month the game starts, so I could have gone with either direction. I still have him on excursion and he should return to Dragon Gate.

    Realized while working with Johnny Curtis that Michael Hutter / EC3 was going be another "on the line" decision. He was released by the WWE on May 17. Will probably have him under contract still.

    Once I finish off these last few, I'll probably go back to dropping in workers for awhile. Maybe a couple more owners / refs / broadcasters. But definitely some women and some more luchadors. I kinda like this approach of dumping in a clump of workers and then editing thru them, but will probably keep using it sporadically. I could also switch to finishing out specific companies at some point. I would probably guess that WWE and NJPW are both about 20 workers each away from completion. Which is some lower card workers, some vets, some non-wrestlers....
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  7. #47
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Just under 300 now. Some of the additions include Low Ki, Kagetsu, Arisa Nakajima, Angelina Love, and Gabe Sapolsky.

    The two joshi additions just reinforce how much I have to do yet in that area. There are quite a few joshi companies in the data - Sendai Girls, Ice Ribbon, Stardom, Oz Academy, Wave - that will all need full rosters. There is a pretty strong amount of crossover, but that's still a pretty significant amount of workers. And its not an area of the wrestling world I know all that well. So that's going to be fun

    And I keep seeing workers who worked for companies that aren't include and that makes me want to add them. Like JWP Joshi, where Nakajima was based for a number of years. Or Gatoh Move, which is based out of Thailand so I didn't really give much thought to including it, but they run most of their shows in Japan, so... its workable.

    Adding Sapolsky got me mulling Dragon Gate USA again. Like I mentioned before, the main issues I have is that the company was already winding down by mid-2013. They ran into 2014, but I think they ran 6 or 7 shows from the start of this mod to where they closed. Having Sapolsky owning both DGUSA and Evolve doesn't work, so that would require a workaround. And the way that Dragon Gate talent came in for random shows isn't really emulatable. Unless maybe the changes to alliances would allow for it better.

    I'm also starting to think of how the WWN should be included. its not a stand alone promotions. Its sorta of an alliance, but also with a broadcaster. So.... gonna probably take some experimenting when I can port this over to TEW 2020.
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  8. #48
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Just under 300 now. Some of the additions include Low Ki, Kagetsu, Arisa Nakajima, Angelina Love, and Gabe Sapolsky.

    The two joshi additions just reinforce how much I have to do yet in that area. There are quite a few joshi companies in the data - Sendai Girls, Ice Ribbon, Stardom, Oz Academy, Wave - that will all need full rosters. There is a pretty strong amount of crossover, but that's still a pretty significant amount of workers. And its not an area of the wrestling world I know all that well. So that's going to be fun

    And I keep seeing workers who worked for companies that aren't include and that makes me want to add them. Like JWP Joshi, where Nakajima was based for a number of years. Or Gatoh Move, which is based out of Thailand so I didn't really give much thought to including it, but they run most of their shows in Japan, so... its workable.

    Adding Sapolsky got me mulling Dragon Gate USA again. Like I mentioned before, the main issues I have is that the company was already winding down by mid-2013. They ran into 2014, but I think they ran 6 or 7 shows from the start of this mod to where they closed. Having Sapolsky owning both DGUSA and Evolve doesn't work, so that would require a workaround. And the way that Dragon Gate talent came in for random shows isn't really emulatable. Unless maybe the changes to alliances would allow for it better.

    I'm also starting to think of how the WWN should be included. its not a stand alone promotions. Its sorta of an alliance, but also with a broadcaster. So.... gonna probably take some experimenting when I can port this over to TEW 2020.
    I'd say make it an alliance, and then have the broadcaster own the companies?

  9. #49
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    I'd say make it an alliance, and then have the broadcaster own the companies?
    Probably something along those lines. Possibly even exactly that. But...

    TEW 2020 is going to have additional company relationships available. So I want to see what those options are, and whether there may be other ways to have it all arranged.
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  10. #50
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Hit 324, so quite a bit of progress on a quiet day off from work. Can't recall them all off hand, but it includes Natalya Neidhart, Tamina, Velvet Sky, Madison Eagles, Great Khali, Yuji Hino, Yuji Ngata, Yoshihiro Tajiri, Guerrero Maya Jr, El Texano Jr, El Hijo del Fantasma (King Cuerno), and a couple of refs and owners.

    I also did a couple of things that are probably worth talking about more than my standard aimless rambling...

    Additional Promotions

    Nothing to get excited over. But I decided on Wednesday to drop in a few more. They were Gatoh Move (had to create them from scratch), ECCW, JWP Joshi, Pro Wrestling Eve, and Women Superstars Uncensored. So 4 of the 5 are primarily female promotions. ECCW is a long-time promotion in western Canada so I figured it wouldn't hurt to add it.

    Part of my hesitation of adding new promotions is purely qualitative - how much value does that promotion add? Does it fill a need that otherwise isn't filled? Considering its product, location, target audience, likely roster.... does it overlap with other promotions a lot or is it fairly unique? I've hesitated to add a lot of joshi promotions in the past in part because of the overlap. The other part is quantitative - pure logistics. As I've mentioned before, can I find enough info on the owner and booker? What about refs and announcers? I really don't love having companies that are missing pieces - they only have half a roster, or no refs / road agents/ commentators. It does also bloat the data a bit. A company like ECCW is going to have a roster mostly of low level local workers who don't work for anyone else so if the company closes, they are just sitting. Its not a big deal in one area, but if you start doing that widely....

    I still don't like adding Pro Wrestling Eve with their limited schedule, but it does fill a need and its a company that does good stuff, so.... I'm hoping that TEW 2020 will have schedule options that make it more workable.

    Testing

    So I finally tested.

    Now, by testing, I mean running a test sim / soak test. This is the primary form of testing I do. Just start a save unemployed, let it run for awhile, and look for results or events that shouldn't happen. Oh, this indy company is dying in two months - why? Oh, that indy company is putting on monstrously good shows. Oh, that worker is signing a deal in an area they should be active. I will also do "play testing" once its further along.

    I haven't done any so far as the game world isn't developed enough. Its still not, to be honest. There are no companies with complete rosters. NJPW and the WWE are close, but still not done. Many companies have less than half as many workers as they should / will. Most don't have the non-wrestlers they need - road agents, commentators, refs. Less than half have owners, and fewer than that have bookers. There are only 3 TV shows / broadcasting deals - Raw, SD, and Impact. I have no edited companies for product or size or schedule. There are no title belts imported at all. There are almost no free agents for promotions with incomplete rosters to sign. Basically, there isn't enough data in the database yet to really give much value to the results.

    But I did a bit anyway.

    First two attempts hung up on shows. The game didn't crash, but it... stalled. I had to exit out and then that save was corrupted. So that was worrying. Third time was the charm.

    I got two months in. Again, I'm not prescribing much value to the results, but I thought it was interesting at the very least. So a few observations....

    New Japan Pro-Wrestling: overpowered. But I'm not sure its unrealistically. They have 3 of the top 15 workers on their roster and at least a dozen of the top 100. So I wasn't surprised that their tour shows were grading B to A, with regular A main events. That's like a 4 1/2 star match on a regular basis. When it comes time to tweak, I will probably just try to get the AI to book a bit looser on tour shows so more 3v3 main events, etc. Also notable that tour shows aren't going to increase popularity much outside of that individual region so its not like NJPW was seeing its popularity take off in a hurry. I'm not sure this is a concern to any real degree.

    WWE: simulates almost exactly as expected. If the AI decides to headline Raw with Jericho vs CM Punk, boom, easy A grade show. If it decides to have Kane vs Big Show, boom, easy B- show. Given the WWE's size, they basically need to be running B shows regularly. So there is always going to be some risk of them dropping in size, but as I've said, its hard to get the WWE to balance perfectly. The roster is just too big and diverse, and I don't want to overpower it with a roster that has too much popularity at the top.

    TNA: my biggest concern in a lot of ways. TNA are regional in the data (more on that later) and were putting on C+ shows, meaning they will grow easily. Its not that I want TNA to be impossible to be successful with. I just... don't want the AI to easily guide them to Cult and then National every time. It also looks like Kurt Angle is overpowered based on his current build, so that's something I will add to my list to tweak down the road.

    AJPW & Noah: not able to read much into it, as neither has a full roster, but AJPW seemed more stable with its grades in the Cs while Noah was up and down a bit more.

    DDT: another area of concern and they are definitely capable of putting on strong shows. Think I saw some B- show grades. But with talent like Kenny Omega, Kota Ibushi, and HARASHIMA.... that's pretty realistic.

    DG: slight concern, but it seems like their show grades vary too. Roster isn't complete either so can't read too much into it.

    wXw: some significant variety in the show grades. They are probably too big of a company in the data, which I will tweak at some point. But I saw one or two shows headlined by WALTER where they managed to pull a B-, which is pretty potent.

    For the most part, it graded about where I expected, which is nice to see.
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  11. #51
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    I didn't want to make the previous post longer lol



    So regarding TNA... there is always some debate whether they should be set as a regional or a cult company in a given mod. Well, not ALWAYS. They are absolutely a regional company now. But for much of their existence, they kinda fit in between. When you look at all the factors that company size impacts in TEW, its not always clear.

    Company size impacts who will sign with you. It impacts the broadcasters that will negotiate with you. The attendances you draw. The PPV buy rates you get.

    In terms of TV deal and some of the talent they had under contract, Cult makes sense.

    In terms of attendances and PPV buy rates, they are Regional. The money troubles bespeak to a company overstepping its actual space and TNA had payroll problems running all the way back then.

    2013 is when TNA was touring and while they had some good attendances, they also had some absolutely awful ones.

    TEW doesn't account for a broadcaster than provides direct financial support to back certain signings, the way that Spike TV did with Sting, Kurt Angle, and Hogan. Much like it doesn't account for an owner who secretly keeps someone on payroll that the broadcaster wants nothing to do with and then manages to out themselves. Good ole Dixie.

    And a slight confusing factor is TNA's popularity in the UK, which always struck me as more about availability than the TNA product just really appealing to British fans. It seems like the rise of BritWres has seen a decline in TNA have that kind of popularity there, but it also coincided with a declining company that had more need to focus domestically, so its hard to pick out the root cause.

    So while its not finalized by any means, I will likely put TNA in the higher regional size. That will emulate attendances, PPV buy rates, overall income, and worker signings / retention more accurately. They won't be able to maintain their TV deal (as they actually couldn't) and will struggle with money due to contracted talent and broadcaster quality requirements. Again, that's all very accurate. The AI might still be able to take them on the long road toward national, they way that Dixie and company have never managed to, but it will be a longer and less certain path, even if they can hit pretty damned strong grades for a regional company.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
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  12. #52
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    So we are at the magical number of 333. I didn't have much time over the weekend - drove to see family, so most of the weekend was driving or visiting. Still got a few in. Kotaro Suzuki, Drago, Koji Kanemoto, and a few owners. Had an overwrought debate over which of the three Roldan's should be added and which should be the owner. I ended up setting it as Joaquin as the owner and Dorian as the booker, with the third yet to be added. If Joaquin passes away as he really did, she would probably end up taking over.

    Did also piss around with testing a bit more. I am quite liking what I'm seeing. Its not perfect, but I also expect the grading to change a bit once the conversion over to TEW 2020 to happen, so as I've said, I'm not going to tweak much just yet.

    One thing I found myself mulling on the drive was road agents. They are relatively easy to figure out for WWE and even for TNA. In WWE, they are "producers" and almost all are respected ex-wrestlers. Arn Anderson, Fit Finlay, Dean Malenko, etc. It gets harder on the indy scene. Cagematch is great for historical rosters because it lists what active workers worked in a company on what dates. But its not as good for non-wrestlers. Nor is any other site I've found, so that's not really a fault (or intent) of Cagematch. Some companies have current rosters listed and will sometimes have workers who are also "trainers" or "backstage helpers", which can be an indicator they may do road agent work. But not every company has that and its also for 2019, not 2013. So it can be hard to figure out who should be a road agent for wXw or Rev Pro or CZW. If its a retired wrestler who has a pure backstage role, that's probably not going to be listed on their company website roster page. The general approach of most mods - which I'm also intending to make use of - is generally just having some veteran wrestlers who can work as road agents. Plus a few retired wrestlers kicking about who could be picked up for those who don't have someone.

    But in Japan and Mexico, things get... muddled. Road agents still seem to be veteran workers, but those veteran workers never fucking retire. So you have people like Akira Taue in Noah and Masanobu Fuchi in AJPW who are going to be easy to set as road agents.... but both are still semi-active workers. My general approach thus far has been importing only non-wrestlers, while any wrestlers (even semi active ones) are Cverse or Tverse workers. But I don't know that those mods have that many good options for a 55 or 60 year old wrestler. So I am mulling whether I should just import them from the 2013 mod and then tweak, or go through the sequence of finding Cverse/Tverse workers, converting them to the real worker, etc. This is hardly a huge decision, but you mull funny things on a 3 1/2 hour drive across the prairies....
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  13. #53
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    341. New additions include a couple of refs, Akira Taue, Alicia Fox, Jurn Simmons, Masaaki Mochizuki, Masahiro Takanashi, and a couple of owners.

    Taue was just imported from the 2013 data and edited. He was barely in the ring by this point and retired in later 2013 so he's practically a non-wrestler by this point. First of the Four Pillars of Heaven to go into the data. he will make a good road agent for Noah as well. I do need to start adding more road agents but I said yesterday, most are retired or semi-active wrestlers and its not as appealing to add those as active wrestlers. Especially active wrestlers who are on a roster so they continue to grow things that way.

    Takanashi might be bit overpowered. I'll wait to see how he tests before nerfing.

    Jurn got pretty high SQ as he seems like he has a great look. He had just debuted so he's quite raw at that point.

    The list of picked workers is definitely getting smaller, which is really cool. Of course, at some point, I just need to spend a few hours adding more names to the list and picking workers out of the Cverse and Tverse, which will bloat it back up to 300 or 400 names. But progress is progress lol. I think I mentioned this before, but in my tracking spreadsheet, I have separated out the future workers into a separate section, so they aren't "artificially" bloating up the to-add lists.

    So for the most part, personalities being assigned are guesswork. Other than a few rather well known ones, its often tough to really know anyway. But I'm mulling who should have fairly or totally negative personalities. Someone like Bodom or Alberto Del Reio is pretty easy and obvious. But someone like John Morrison....? Is there a reason he never seems to last all that long in most promotions?

    The All Japan exodus that happened in June 2013 will be replicated. Basically, all of those who left will have 1 month left on their contracts and be unhappy. That should result in all of them leaving. It won't ensure they get signed up by W1 when Mutoh forms it, but like I said before, I'm not really counting on W1 ending up with an accurate roster. Even if I moved the start date of the data and had W1 active with a full, accurate roster, they would get poached to fuck by other companies and have a different-looking roster in a month so its just not worth stressing on. If someone wants to run All Japan, they will have the ability to try to make all of the unhappy talent happy by offering them bonuses or vacations, thereby preventing the exodus to some degree.

    I think Japan is going to be fairly interesting, with some cool options. AJPW has the exodus about to happen. Noah just lost the Burning guys and really need some new, younger talent. DDT has some great youngsters. Dragon Gate always has talent but they have some great youngsters either already on the roster or coming through - T-Hawk, Eita, and Ben-K. Zero1, K-Dojo, M-Pro, and Osaka Pro will all have some talent and some others they can hire. Joshi companies will have loads of really talented options, either already within the promotion or people they can hire. That's a dynamic from the Cverse I really want to capture - you can take over a pretty small company in Japan and you have some talent on the roster, and you can also find more to grab.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
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  14. #54
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    350. Boom. Didn't even up with that much time last night. A couple are refs, to be honest. But also added Gran Apache, Cibernitico, MsChif, Bobby Fish and Luke Gallows.

    I also added the contracts of workers already in the data who were working for Dragon Gate USA. I didn't do that when I added the company to the data. For any of them, but that really didn't impact any of the other companies. DGUSA had the likes of Gargano, Ricochet, AR Fox, and then a few DG guys. Most of the DG guys would stop working there by the summer. DGUSA was already in the process of semi-merging with Evolve - they existed as separate companies promoting separate shows but with shared roster. Like I said before when I had decided not to include them, they really only ran a few more shows before shutting down. So I'm probably going to give them some money problems to emulate that.

    One real upside to doing things this way - and it would also apply if I was literally creating each worker from scratch - is that it forces you to really dive into the world. I felt like tweaking the 2K1 mod got me to know areas of the wrestling world that I didn't know in much detail - puro (at least in that period of time, I didn't know it well), lucha, and even smaller indy companies. With that project, I was going through rosters to ensure they were accurate. I was checking titles and title reigns, and trying to get pushes roughly accurate. I was tweaking skill and popularity levels. But that feels nowhere near as immersive as what going through each individual person, their work history, their relations, previous gimmicks / alter egos.... I haven't even done that much watching of matches (yet, at least), but I feel like my understanding of CMLL and AAA has gone up considerably. The differences in their booking styles, in ring approaches, and all of that. Same with DDT. So that's pretty cool.

    And sometimes watching a match or two is just... necessary. I have two different resources I'm using for worker skills. They provide a reference for tweaking the imported worker. When I was redoing Cibernitico, I noticed that one reference had him as a truly world class wrestler and the other had him as a decidedly mediocre one. My perception of him was somewhere in between there. So I did end up watching a match, and while a single match really just gives you a snapshot of the worker, it did make me feel confident in that middling assessment. And this where seeking opinions from those who watch way more than I do is helpful.

    I will definitely end up doing some watching, but it probably moreso be once the mod is more complete and looking to tweak and adjust. I have a feeling that if / when I go back through some of the workers who were added in the first 100, I would end up tweaking just based on balancing of things.

    The work week has been busy, which has meant I haven't had tons of time in the evenings. But it should be a quiet weekend, with really cool weather, so thinking that I should make some nice progress. I do want to add more women, especially some more joshi workers as that's been ignored for the past while.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
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  15. #55
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    355. But its really 354 1/2. Added Mike Bailey, ODB, Nick Aldis, Nicole Matthews, and half-added T-Hawk.

    T-Hawk once again brought up the issue of what to put the worker into the data as for their name. I am totally not being consistent with this. Some are going in under the most commonly used stage name, some are going in under their real names, and some with an indy name if their main stage name is not going to be available for them outside of working for WWE. So someone like Luke Gallows.... could have gone in under Drew Hankinson, Deacon Deville, Festus, Luke Gallows, DOC, Doc Gallows.... I ended up using his real name because he's used a different name almost everywhere. So there are alter egos for the different names in different locations. In a sense, alter egos makes it not matter what you pick, but it also does matter because you don't want to make it hard for users to locate workers, even if there is a search function.

    Dragon Gate guys are a pain in this way because they use about 5 different names a year for most of them. But... very few of them ever leave Dragon Gate. So its fairly safe putting them in under their DG name. But T-Hawk also worked as Tomahawk TT and Naoki Tanisaki. Probably just gonna have him under his real name and then have a couple alter egos

    Might have mentioned this before but I'm not going wild with alter egos. So I'm not going to bother putting in the Festus gimmick for Luke Gallows / Drew Hankinson. Anyone who wants to relive that abomination can create it themselves easily enough. But.... I might include Tex Ferguson cuz that was fun as fuck.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
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  16. #56
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    359. I finished off T-Hawk and added Candice LeRae, Rey Cometa, John Hennigan, and El Desperado.

    Annoyingly, Hennigan wasn't actually working anywhere at that point, and LeRae was only really working in PWG. Its not a big deal and they need to go into the data at some point, but as I keep saying, its nice to add workers who add to a few rosters.

    Almost exactly because of what I was talking about the other day with this processing helping to get to know different companies and situations so much better than I did before.... when I was adding Cometa, I read about his feud with Namajague, who was later El Desperado in NJPW. So I decided to add him as well. I decided to put him in under his own name Kyosuke Mikami, with Namajague and Despy as the alter egos. So I started looking for a masked cut of him as Namajague. Wasn't finding. I have about 7 different pick packs.... nope. Dug and dug and dug. And when I finally found it, I went back to his information and realized he had lost the mask about two months before. Well, that was a wasted 20 minutes.



    Looks like a weekend of shitty weather, gym, football, and probably working on this thing. I'd love to whittle down the list more, which would let me feel comfortable spending a few hours this coming week picking out new selections. Cometa was one of the last workers from Mexico I have picked out, at least on the male side. The rest are US/Canada, Japan, or UK/Europe.

    So my original hope was for a strong, vibrant women's scene. That's still the hope, but I don't know how much greater it will be than most other mods. I mean, the Four Horsewomen are still in NXT and none are world class yet. The main roster women are still heavily Diva-types and talent who never really turned into significant workers.... looking at you, Tamina. The US indy scene has some good workers, but not really much for OUTSTANDING workers. Like there isn't really a Joanne Rodriguez or Jess Hart on the indy scene. A few of the top joshi workers are close to that level in the ring, but only a few. Now I'm hopeful that the US women's scene can grow to the point where a national-level women's promotion is possible. But for various reasons, that wouldn't be workable or likely or sustainable at the start. Which I guess is realistic. I don't want to artificially inflate the female-side of the mod just so its "stronger" for the sake of it.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
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  17. #57
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    393. A quiet weekend with shitty weather where I also feel shitty and therefore do nothing of substance can be productive, I guess. Was kinda hoping to hit 400 but concentrating for long spells was pretty much not happening. I'm technically at 397 but the last 5 were imported and just not converted over.

    The majority added were actually wrestlers. Only a couple non-wrestlers. Not going to remember everyone, but some of them included Trent Seven, Alexxis Nevaeh, Cameron, Naomi, the Bravado Brothers, Rowan, The Ascension, Saraya Knight, Alpha Female, Taka Michinoku, Yoshihiro Takayama, Allysin Kay, Aja Kong, Danny Garnell, Sexy Star, Robbie Eagles, Brian Kendrick, Daisuke Sasaki, Shawn Hernandez, Hiroyo Matsumoto, and a bunch of others. Not much was added to Mexico compared to other regions, but that is simply down to not having many luchadors left on the list.

    I kinda fucked up on Friday. Had some time to kill on lunch break so I tottered around Cagematch and started to make a list of WWE and New Japan workers from 2013 who aren't in the data yet. Basically to confirm the "these rosters are almost done" feeling. And I was wrong. So fucking wrong. There are easily 30 workers who need to be added yet to the WWE or NXT, and probably 25 to be added to the New Japan roster. For the WWE, the majority of these are NXT talents and some are NXT types who weren't long for the company. With NJPW, they are a combination of part-time veteran dads and tour talents, as well a few roster regulars who just have been added yet (Bushi, Tama Tonga, etc). It was a bit of a wake-up to see how far I really am from being able to say either roster is COMPLETE, at least in terms of active wrestlers.

    I did add another active promotion last night. I was adding in Robbie Eagles and decided to add in PWA Black Label, where he was trained and worked for a few years. Melbourne City Wrestling are already in the data and were the only active company. I had considered PWA before, but adding enough talent for both companies was a bit... uncertain. But I said fuck it and added it in. Australia and New Zealand is a bit of a hotbed around this point in time. There are the obvious ones like Jay White, Toni Storm, and Robbie Eagles. White never worked for either of the bigger Aussie companies and Storm was heading to the UK at this point. But there is KC Cassidy (Peyton Royce), Jessie McKay (Billie Kay), Shazza McKenzie, Kellie Skater, Jonah Rock, Mark Davis, Kyle Fletcher (debuted in 2014), Travis Banks, Dahlia Black, Buddy Murphy, Mikey Nichols & Shane Haste, Slex.... Its not quite the glut of talent that helped the UK scene start to blow up around this time period, but its still impressive in its own way. Basically I like the idea of them having an additional place to work. I think that will help develop the workers who don't get poached abroad, and those who do stick and turn into very good workers will help the scene grow.

    PWA is owned by Ryan Eagles and Madison Eagles. The latter was absolutely going to be in the data anyway, and adding her hubby isn't an issue. Two of the holdups I have with adding any new company is trying to find info on the owners and ensuring there is enough "known" talent to add to fill out the roster. As I've said, I really don't like a company having half a roster and then relying on the AI to add more talent. And while Cagematch might tell me who worked for that company that year and let me look up individual shows, some workers just don't have much data. Low level indy workers can be ghosts. If I can't find basic stuff like DOB and a picture, they aren't going in the data.

    Friday evening also gave me a small success that tickled me way more than it should have. So Trent Seven is often listed as the owner of Fight Club: PRO. The problem with that is having Seven set as the owner means that replicating his move into the WWE system isn't really possible. I had also seen a co-owner named Martin Zaki, but info on him was limited. When I was adding Trent Seven on Friday, I dove back in and managed to find some info on Zaki. Jim Smallman had him on the Tuesday Night Jaw podcast at one point, but while that's nice, its not like he spouts of his detailed biography. LinkedIn had his school info, which would allow me to at least estimate a year of birth. And then I did mange to find his actual DOB. Small victory but satisfying nonetheless.

    Biggest decision I have to make coming up is how much to whittle down the existing list before spending some time digging up more matchups. The active male list is about 180 now, but I expect less than half of those have matchups picked. The women's list is about 75 or 80, and most of them are picked. I figure the new round is going to be a big add - I'll probably blow the active male list up to between 350 and 500, and the female list will probably double. So its going to be a big list. I keep thinking I should whittle this one down more but its not like I'm going to wipe it out, so I guess it really doesn't matter.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
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  18. #58
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    418. Not even gonna try to remember everyone who went in. I did add a handful more owners, so we are probably 60% done that aspect for active companies. But quite a few of those added were active workers.

    Gonna slow down on that. As mentioned, I'm going to do another cycle of adding names to the spreadsheets and then trying to find matches for most of those. Trolling through the two fictional mods, whether its generally or for specific worker types, eats up time. I also enjoy it more than one would expect. So I'm gonna punch away at that for a few days. When I started adding workers again, I will try to mix in some more non-wrestlers - refs, announcers, managers/valets, and some retired wrestlers who can serve as personalities or road agents.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
    Motto:
    LIKE FATHER, LIKE SON.



  19. #59
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Worked late last night and there was the AEW Dynamite debut but I didn't expect to get much done. Bloating up the list of workers and adding in where the worker is based so I can sort and filter was the main work. Just started to troll through the Cverse list. Previously, I was mostly doing it with some focused searching. Looking for specific worker-types, nationalities, etc. But this time, I've started by literally just going through the whole lost if workers. Gonna be slow but whatever. No real reason to rush.

    I've also been mulling title belts. There are none, as I've mentioned, because I wanted to import them once the worker list was more compete so that the histories import better. I was considering importing the belts without any histories so that simulations work a bit better. And that got me thinking that maybe I should do belts from scratch. Do title histories is a pain in the ass amount of work - monotonous data entry, not anything challenging. But doing it all from scratch means its all accurate. Importing means you sometimes end up with histories that don't connect to the right person, and sometimes there are variances in the formatting of the dates which is tiny but annoying as fuck. If importing means I still have to go back and correct a shit-ton of stuff.... why not just do it that way from the beginning? Kinda leaning that way.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
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  20. #60
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    428. Pretty much only added non-wrestlers because they are pretty quick and easy. I did add a few title belts, creating them from scratch. Just the world titles for a couple of companies. Obviously I haven't done anything with the lineages just yet, and that's going to be a time-consuming process when I do tackle it. But importing and then fixing them up is time-consuming too, so....

    Mainly spent the weekend's modding time working my way through the Cverse to look for workers matches. I added a whole ton of names to the spreadsheet. The active male worker list is up to about 450 names now, and the active female workers is a bit over 100. But a LOT of them are filling in now. Rather than the "focused" searching I've done previously, I'm just literally going through the workers in the Cverse and looking at each active worker, then seeing if I have someone who situationally matches. I started at the bottom and I'm into the L's. I did a bit in the Tverse but I'm still mostly at the bottom of that list TBH.

    Its time consuming as fuck, especially with no filters at all. but I want to find to matches for some of the legends who will be added down the road.

    The one worker type that the spreadsheet list is still lacking in is the low-level types. The guys who are openers for good sized indy companies and work regularly for your micro-indy / shindy companies. They are a pain in the ass to dig up and they mostly suck, so there isn't much need to prioritize them. I will worry about them down the road, but its definitely an area where there is a LOT of work yet to be done.

    With regard to titles, I'm actually trying to be accurate with how many title defenses the champion has had to date. I'm ignoring WWE house shows, as those aren't really counted. Cagematch actually has a nice function in its title belt section that lets you see any matches it has in its database where that belt was defended. thankfully, this is only in the data for current champions, but its kinda nice to have someone who's held a belt for a few months to see the accurate number of defenses. Instead of having the "lose the belt on their first defense" news story pop up every time.

    when the times rolls around that I'm adding in the title lineages, I will have to make a decision on how to format the dates. The dates switching formats is one of those small details that everyone hates. But it tends to happen when you importing data from another mod, part of which was imported from somewhere else first. The dates, in the Cverse, just have the month and year. So I could have that, or the actual date of the title win and loss.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
    Motto:
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