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Thread: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

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    Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns


    A new chapter began at WrestleMania 35 with the long awaited defeat of Brock Lesnar occurring at the hands of Seth Rollins, and Kofimania running wild winning Kingston his first ever world title in WWE.

    A lot of people didn't predict both these guys having their crowning moments at the show of shows. On top of that, there are plenty of people who question their ability to hold the top titles in the company. Rollins has a rocky history as a world champ and Kofi is an unproven commodity. We're now a few months removed from their wins and both guys are still trucking along with no apparent end in sight for their reigns. Both these men have defended their titles frequently and it seems like they're not taking a show off, in some cases wrestling on both Raw and Smackdown.

    I felt it would be good to open the floor for a discussion on how our two world champs are fairing this far. It's definitely a topic that gets touched on a bit anyways.

    Personally, my feelings are pretty easily summed up.

    I'm happy to have a fighting champion back on Raw in the form of Rollins. His win over Lesnar was an amazing start to Mania. His match with AJ is one of the best you'll see in WWE this year. I would say it's a shame he's been matched up with Corbin for the last good bit but hopefully that will be coming to an end soon. As a whole, his reign has plenty of room for improvement but I can't complain as I've found his work to be plenty entertaining.

    In the case of Kofi, he's got a great thing going. I don't think he's really technically proficient in the ring but what he does works and he's unquestionably over as hell. It's been a fun ride and his matches with Zayn, Owen's and Ziggler this past week were all fantastic. Any doubters of his performance as champ are being silenced it seems.

    Now, away from the ring, it seems WWE's business woes haven't improved under these new reigns but I don't know nearly enough about the business side of WWE to say if it's on Kofi and Seth that attendance is still suffering. What I will say is Rome wasn't built overnight and I'd like for WWE to stay the course with these guys for a good while longer and see if they can be "the guys" or at least be two of "the guys".

    What does everyone else have to say about this?

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Rollins is.....kind of underwhelming and boring as a face. He's also way too predictable. Match quality has been pretty solid, though. But most of that is more on booking and writing than him.
    Kofi is fun, and the match quality has been good, too.

    However, even if both were doing the absolute best possible? The ratings wouldn't go up or down that much. I mean, when Shane is getting as much air time on both shows as he is, and Raw essentially is a repeat week in and week out....Yeah, not going to see ratings go up any time soon.


    I feel like both their reigns would be a lot better if they ditched the god awful wildcard rule.
    Everything will surely be alright.



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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Kofi is one of my favourite champions in the world at the moment. He speaks with a lot of heart and passion, you can see how much it means to him to be champion because this is likely his only ever reign and it's taken so long to get his opportunity at the top, it's something fresh and unpredictable, the crowd are behind him, for the most part I've really enjoyed his matches but the main thing is he's a likable babyface champion almost 4 months after he won the title and I still think there's legs here to go until Summerslam at least. I haven't enjoyed the Ziggler feud but the good news is that anything will be an improvement now after 3 matches with Ziggler. I think that's the next step forward, give Kofi better opponents and watch the next program deliver, and there's a number of potential match ups that would have my interest. Orton, Andrade, Black, Ali, Roman, Brock, Rusev etc. There's a chance for a heel here to pick up some real heat if they become the man to end the Kofi party, I'd hate to see it, but Brock cashing in on Kofi I think would have more impact than him cashing in on Seth

    Seth I'm less enthused by. I don't think he's all that likable a champion, he sounds phony when he cuts babyface promos, he hasn't been that much of a dominant or fighting champion, in fact he had to cheat to win the title off of Lesnar at mania in the first place, and then by blind luck in Saudi Arabia avoid being cashed in on. He really doesn't feel like the top guy on Raw. The AJ Styles match was great, but tbh it didn't have much of a memorable angle to it, and we went straight from that into a dull feud with Corbin which makes it impossible to get interested in what Seth is doing. And as for his latest development, to put it politely he's being overshadowed by the much more popular Becky Lynch and if I was being really harsh, I'd say he's on course to be emasculated as a champion by having Becky be the bigger rebel and badass that won't back down from anyone. He's already getting described a lot as 'Becky Lynch's boyfriend' a lot more than she's called 'Seth Rollins' girlfriend'. I can't say I'm looking forward to anything coming Seth's way, because with Ricochet and AJ in the US scene atm, what's coming up for Seth once we're done with Corbin.........moving onto a different pillar of boredom from the Raw roster like Bobby Lashley or Drew McIntyre? maybe he's slotted as Bray Wyatts first opponent back? maybe he gets lumbered with Braun even after everyone else gave up on him, or maybe just predictably we're spinning our wheels until Brock takes the title off him before Summerslam like I'm 99% positive will happen.

    You can't fully absolve them of criticism for bad ratings because if they were having spectacular reigns then more people would be talking about the shows positively and they'd be getting better ratings. That said, it's the brand that draws in WWE and it's years of terrible creative that has turned long term fans off this show. I think it's more that fans don't give a crap about Corbin or Ziggler as worthy challengers more than they are disinterested in Seth and Kofi on top.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Unpopular maybe but I give zero fucks. These two geeks as champs are the main reason I haven’t watched a single minute of Raw or SD since ‘Mania. I just couldn’t care less about either of them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuji Vice View Post
    Unpopular maybe but I give zero fucks. These two geeks as champs are the main reason I haven’t watched a single minute of Raw or SD since ‘Mania. I just couldn’t care less about either of them.


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    Things you've missed in the last few months:
    - A great match AJ Styles carried Seth to
    - Kofi had an above average match with Dolph Ziggler last Tuesday that wasn't as good as AJ/Ricochet a day before
    -Seth trying to flirt with Becky on Raw that is somehow more awkward than his text of him wanting to choke the shit out of that girl sexually

    The problem with these two is that they just aren't very good, and in Kofi's case the crowd is giving, but history has told us the live crowd can't be the be-all end-all. When you see someone bouncing around & throwing pancakes to the crowd how can the majority not see a giant midcarder? Because he gets cheered doesn't make him any better as a *champion*. Also none of his matches have been remotely special.

    Seth did have the AJ match which was awesome, & I thought he was well booked last week wreaking havoc on everyone with the chair. But it's kind of funny because his first title reign was so bad & everyone made a ton of excuses for him & now he's had a rough time again under vastly different circumstances.

    Now as much as I personally would like others, I do think there's something to be said for them not having the right partners to dance with. KO, Dolph, & Corbin are the definition of channel changing heat from a majority of the audience and their performances have all been quite poor so if we're giving them the benefit of the doubt of JUST this era they can have brighter days ahead. I think it's silly to think that character tweaks don't need to be made though to both of them. Kofi's is relatively simple & his promos themselves have actually risen to the occasion. Seth's a bit more complicated & his Twitter game he's adopted from Becky is certainly not gonna help his cause any.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Things you've missed in the last few months:
    - A great match AJ Styles carried Seth to
    - Kofi had an above average match with Dolph Ziggler last Tuesday that wasn't as good as AJ/Ricochet a day before
    -Seth trying to flirt with Becky on Raw that is somehow more awkward than his text of him wanting to choke the shit out of that girl sexually

    The problem with these two is that they just aren't very good, and in Kofi's case the crowd is giving, but history has told us the live crowd can't be the be-all end-all. When you see someone bouncing around & throwing pancakes to the crowd how can the majority not see a giant midcarder? Because he gets cheered doesn't make him any better as a *champion*. Also none of his matches have been remotely special.

    Seth did have the AJ match which was awesome, & I thought he was well booked last week wreaking havoc on everyone with the chair. But it's kind of funny because his first title reign was so bad & everyone made a ton of excuses for him & now he's had a rough time again under vastly different circumstances.

    Now as much as I personally would like others, I do think there's something to be said for them not having the right partners to dance with. KO, Dolph, & Corbin are the definition of channel changing heat from a majority of the audience and their performances have all been quite poor so if we're giving them the benefit of the doubt of JUST this era they can have brighter days ahead. I think it's silly to think that character tweaks don't need to be made though to both of them. Kofi's is relatively simple & his promos themselves have actually risen to the occasion. Seth's a bit more complicated & his Twitter game he's adopted from Becky is certainly not gonna help his cause any.
    I was fully prepared for you to absolutely tear both guys a new one but I actually agree with this entire post.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    I actually don't mind that Kofi is relatively unchanged gimmick wise, still tight friends with his boys and doing the New Day stuff the crowd love him for. I think it tells a fresher story that in this instance the title hasn't changed someone's personality completely. He still brings the seriousness when he has to with his promos and facial expressions, but on his way to the ring he's still going to entertain his fans. I think it's overplayed when wrestlers suddenly change who they are once they're champions.

    And I disagree entirely with the Kofi/Owens stuff, that was a good match and I know I'm not an outlier on that.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    I actually don't mind that Kofi is relatively unchanged gimmick wise, still tight friends with his boys and doing the New Day stuff the crowd love him for. I think it tells a fresher story that in this instance the title hasn't changed someone's personality completely. He still brings the seriousness when he has to with his promos and facial expressions, but on his way to the ring he's still going to entertain his fans. I think it's overplayed when wrestlers suddenly change who they are once they're champions.

    And I disagree entirely with the Kofi/Owens stuff, that was a good match and I know I'm not an outlier on that.
    I also agree with all of this.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Ultimately the Kofi of the past isn't a main eventer though is the problem. And throwing pancakes to the crowd while your partners have been injured and taken to the hospital is just low wrestling IQ from him and whoever allowed it. As for Owens, that feud was a huge fail. The aforementioned Kofi stuff, the promo where Owens talked to action figures, the match which okay. I say was an average match that the crowd wasn't as hot as AJ/Seth for and had a crappy finishing stretch. You can say it was a good match that the crowd wasn't as hot as AJ/Seth for and had a crappy finishing stretch. Either way it wasn't a main event caliber match in 2019 and nobody will remember it a month from now. Even in the Kofi best wrestler thread everyone only brought up how his reign is all Dolph's fault, completely ignoring how KO had the entire first half of it to himself. Regardless, KO sucks and the very next week he had an equally shit promo the commentary couldn't even hold back from calling out and begging to end so it's not like it's all Kofi's fault but please can we get real for a second?

    Really I like Kofi's promos and think he's elevated his game on that end as champion. Him throwing pancakes and being mid card Kofi sucks and there's plenty of evidence to show it isn't helping the cause of SD as a show right now. Would him changing work? I don't know but it's clear this hasn't.

    I also think there's something to be said that no matter what he did, how he changed, or how good he may be, he's still Kofi at the end of the day, and the majority of people won't accept him as champion because he's just been a midcareer guy too long. Similar to Bully Ray in TNA which everyone said was so great and you could argue that, but then suddenly the ratings went up when Chris Sabin won the title, someone who felt fresh and wasn't a retread of 15 years ago, then back down when they swapped back to Bully like many people wanted. I think there's a chance a similar thing could be true with Kofi that analyzing him simply doesn't matter and the majority of people have already up their minds on him. I personally would like to see him face better people first before judging him but the fact this is Kofi Kingston after all needs to be kept in mind at some point moreso than even any quality of his work even.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    One thing that makse it a bit harder for me to like, is just how goddamn insufferable Seth has been on social media.

    Not sure how much is his actual thoughts, or how much is him saying what he has to say in his position / what Vince wants. (Vince did tell him to go after Mox, and such, after all.)

    But my god, as if the guy who's one of the least likable baby faces on the roster needed to look like a huge douche canoe even more. Leave it to a cross fit bro to be a jackass.
    Everything will surely be alright.



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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    I took that as part him trying to be a locker room leader, but indoctrinated into Vince's goofy WWE vision (They've had multiple talent meetings to put over how great the talent & company is & try to make people wanna go to AEW less & I'm sure some people buy into that crap) & part Seth trying to be edgy on Twitter like Becky which I thought was awful when she did it but I know some of her fans rallied around it, though she's less brave after Edge schooled her in worked shoot Twitter. Now Seth has taken the torch & ran with it on saying dumbass things online.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Seth and Becky's relationship was totally manufactured for promotional reasons. However, if they really are together, they definitely deserve each other, at least where their Twitter personas are concerned.


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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    They were dating months before it was something WWE drew attention to tbf.

    most wrestlers come off as big headed attention seeking idiots trying to get themselves over, Chuck Taylor is the only one who makes it worth a follow.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    They were dating months before it was something WWE drew attention to tbf.
    True, but then again they could have already broken up behind the scenes but still be "dating" for the cameras. I love cynicism.


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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Kofi's reign has been fantastic. It's felt organic, the promos are good, the matches are fine. I've thoroughly enjoyed it and it's been a breath of fresh air.

    Seth is an unlikeable dork. His matches are whatever to me, he's not even half as good as he or his fans think he is. I would say he's miscast as a face but his 2015 heel reign was one of my least favourite title reigns ever.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed
    And as for his latest development, to put it politely he's being overshadowed by the much more popular Becky Lynch and if I was being really harsh, I'd say he's on course to be emasculated as a champion by having Becky be the bigger rebel and badass that won't back down from anyone. He's already getting described a lot as 'Becky Lynch's boyfriend' a lot more than she's called 'Seth Rollins' girlfriend'.


    WWE all in with using Becky to get Seth over.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    As someone who doesn't like the term "cuck", that is one cucky shirt.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    It's not a good look and it'll further turn fans perception of him sour rather than help him.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Yes that's... very bad. That'd be like trying to get Triple H over as your top guy and making a shirt for him that says "HBK's Friend". Only worse.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    I would have rather seen Seth turn heel than lose to Lesnar. He would make a much better heel than AJ. I can't stand AJ's heel promos. And now we're stuck with God awful Lesnar as champion again. After he wins at Summerslam, we probably won't see him again until Survivor Series.


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