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Thread: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

  1. #21
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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Thank fuck Seths reign is over, he's the most unlikeable face ever. He's one of the least interesting talents on the roster, the only time I found him interesting was as part of the shield, I hated his reign and it was one of the reasons I stopped watching. Hopefully lesnar retains at summerslam.

    Kofi, on the other hand, has had a great reign. I'd love to see him do a full year and take it into Mania next year.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleKat
    I would have rather seen Seth turn heel than lose to Lesnar. He would make a much better heel than AJ. I can't stand AJ's heel promos. And now we're stuck with God awful Lesnar as champion again. After he wins at Summerslam, we probably won't see him again until Survivor Series.
    That could've been great but I'm drawing blanks on what credible faces are there on RAW aside from Strowman and Reigns?


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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by LibSuperstar View Post
    That could've been great but I'm drawing blanks on what credible faces are there on RAW aside from Strowman and Reigns?
    Well Reigns is actually on Smackdown. At this time, the top faces would appear to be Strowman, Miz, Ricochet and Mysterio. So slim pickings for sure. But given that the brand split is completely meaningless now with the wild card rule, they could easily have guys like Reigns, Orton (if he's a face), Owens and Balor cross over as needed.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCirc...e_of_whatever/

    I think this sums up how I feel about Seth, really.


    As a face, he just has no character. He's so so with charisma, and really just....There's nothing to him, and he's corny and just blegh.

    He just needs to go back to being a heel and stay that way.
    Everything will surely be alright.



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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    I don't think he's a particularly good heel either, whether that's as a character or a wrestler. Character work is not his strong point by any means.





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  6. #26
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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    I think he was a decent heel when he came out of the shield, I think he was really believable as this guy that sold out the Shield for his own personal career boost, always took shortcuts, rat faced prick, had good chemistry with Noble and Mercury, I think he suited being in the Authority better than any wrestler did. I think the problem then became he got cornered into then being a heel who has to have interference every match so his match quality went down and the knock on effect was no-one saw him as a top level guy when he became champion because he was always cheating and couldn't beat people on his own.

    I think Seth was a great face during 2017 when they brought him and Ambrose together in one of the best storylines they've had of the last 5 years, but that's his career in a nutshell to me, fleeting moments where he looks really good and has the crowd behind him, but a few months later no-one cares.

    I cannot remember the last time WWE booked a babyface world champion as good as they have done with Kofi. Usually by this point WWE have messed it up and fans end up caring less about them, they get put into situations that make them look dumb (AJ getting kicked in the dick repeatedly, or having Joe stalk his wife), or Brock ends the reign before it gets going, or injury takes them away before they get going (Finn and Bryan). I'd say this is the most I've enjoyed a reign since the first 6 months of Punk's big title reign before the AJ and Heyman stuff happens.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Just trying to think of the last babyface world title reign in WWE I enjoyed. Punk's first six months was fine, but it had the John Laurinaitis feud and the awful Jericho feud. Randy Orton in 2011 was really good, but fairly short.

    Think the last one I'd say was better than Kofi's was Cena's 2006-2007 reign, which was stacked with great matches and I didn't mind his character at that point (even if the fans had already turned on him). WWE haven't been great with their babyface champions over the last ten-fifteen years, and I think that's what makes Kofi such a breath of fresh air.





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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    I can only talk about what I saw but whenever I watched the shows, Seth didn't really stand out as a champion. He doesn't have that presence that says "Wow, now that's a great champion". He is much better when he is the "workhorse" because it only really requires him to do matches which he is much better at than promos, having feuds or anything like that. For example, he excels in one match angles but when it's an extended feud, like Dolph, he sucks. Same with this title reign. Good one and done match with AJ but an extended feud with Corbin and it flops. It just isn't in his locker to do it as a face. The opponents didn't help his reign but you gotta be able to work these feuds and raise the opponent as well as champion.

    He is a much better heel but he didn't work as a heel either back in 2015 or 2016 when he returned (but that's different).

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Just trying to think of the last babyface world title reign in WWE I enjoyed. Punk's first six months was fine, but it had the John Laurinaitis feud and the awful Jericho feud. Randy Orton in 2011 was really good, but fairly short.

    Think the last one I'd say was better than Kofi's was Cena's 2006-2007 reign, which was stacked with great matches and I didn't mind his character at that point (even if the fans had already turned on him). WWE haven't been great with their babyface champions over the last ten-fifteen years, and I think that's what makes Kofi such a breath of fresh air.
    I actually enjoyed the Jericho stuff with Punk so I'm higher on that first 6 months than you. The heel GM stuff wasn't great though, thankfully Kofi has avoided that since Vince in the lead up to mania.

    What's great about the Kofi reign is there's still legs to it. We're just starting a feud with Orton, but there's future title matches he can have with the likes of Roman Reigns, Aleister Black, Drew McIntyre, Andrade. I think there's an interesting storyline they can do with Kofi accepting a match with Ali because they keep on mentioning that Kofi only got the title opportunity because of his injury.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Just trying to think of the last babyface world title reign in WWE I enjoyed. Punk's first six months was fine, but it had the John Laurinaitis feud and the awful Jericho feud. Randy Orton in 2011 was really good, but fairly short.

    Think the last one I'd say was better than Kofi's was Cena's 2006-2007 reign, which was stacked with great matches and I didn't mind his character at that point (even if the fans had already turned on him). WWE haven't been great with their babyface champions over the last ten-fifteen years, and I think that's what makes Kofi such a breath of fresh air.
    Awful Jericho feud? How the hell?

    Quote Originally Posted by MC 16 View Post
    I can only talk about what I saw but whenever I watched the shows, Seth didn't really stand out as a champion. He doesn't have that presence that says "Wow, now that's a great champion". He is much better when he is the "workhorse" because it only really requires him to do matches which he is much better at than promos, having feuds or anything like that. For example, he excels in one match angles but when it's an extended feud, like Dolph, he sucks. Same with this title reign. Good one and done match with AJ but an extended feud with Corbin and it flops. It just isn't in his locker to do it as a face. The opponents didn't help his reign but you gotta be able to work these feuds and raise the opponent as well as champion.

    He is a much better heel but he didn't work as a heel either back in 2015 or 2016 when he returned (but that's different).
    Yes, you and Ed both kind of touched on it but I've come to the conclusion that Seth just works better as a face when he's on the hunt than when he's actually reached his destination. Ed pointed out the Ambrose reunion where those two were hugely over and you can also look back to last year after Mania when he won the IC Title. The guy was adored by the fans at that point in time. Even leading into Mania this year, he seemed to have a ton of support. But then he gets the title and it's like crowd investment just dips. I think a lot of the time it is more fun to root for a guy to get to the top than it is to root for a guy who is actually at the top. The fact the he had his big moment at the same time as Becky and Kofi didn't help matters either though I'm sure. Nor did making him Becky's sidekick or having him defend the title against Corbin several times. I'm certain that there is some way they could have Seth succeed as the World Champion but they just haven't figured it out yet.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    Awful Jericho feud? How the hell?
    It was pretty bad. The writing was incredibly weak with stuff like CM Punk having to pretend he was insulted because Jericho called him a bastard. The sobriert test segment that lasted forever and wasn't entertaining, plus the whole "CM Punk was seen in a pub, why is that" stuff. All that leading into the lame Wrestlemania match where we're supposed to try and believe that Jericho has wound Punk up enough with stupid insults that it will cost him his title.

    It was a goofy feud with some bad promos (from two otherwise excellent promo guys) and awful acting on all parts.

    The extreme rules match was good though.





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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    I didn't like the Jericho feud either. Although I only watched the matches recently.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    It was pretty bad. The writing was incredibly weak with stuff like CM Punk having to pretend he was insulted because Jericho called him a bastard. The sobriert test segment that lasted forever and wasn't entertaining, plus the whole "CM Punk was seen in a pub, why is that" stuff. All that leading into the lame Wrestlemania match where we're supposed to try and believe that Jericho has wound Punk up enough with stupid insults that it will cost him his title.

    It was a goofy feud with some bad promos (from two otherwise excellent promo guys) and awful acting on all parts.

    The extreme rules match was good though.
    Hmmm. Well I guess I can see where you're coming from. Personally the only thing that was goofy about it all to me was Jericho calling Punk a bastard like that was the ultimate insult. Kinda like when Punk told John Cena he'd become the New York Yankees and somehow that was the breaking point.

    I also loved the matches they had at WM And Extreme Rules so

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    The stupid thing about that feud was everyone wanted it because they both referred to themselves as "the best in the world", so it made natural sense to decide who really was.

    Instead they skipped that and dicked around with all that other unnecessary nonsense.

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    I had completely put the sobriety test segment out of my mind until Shock brought it up. What a total debacle that was.

    I did like the moment in the feud when Jericho came out with the beers and doused CM Punk, but only because it looked hilarious seeing Jericho carry the beers to the ring.


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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuji Vice View Post
    I had completely put the sobriety test segment out of my mind until Shock brought it up. What a total debacle that was.

    I did like the moment in the feud when Jericho came out with the beers and doused CM Punk, but only because it looked hilarious seeing Jericho carry the beers to the ring.
    Yeah, just rewatched that yesterday because of this. It was indeed stupid. But, I appreciate what they were going for trying to make Jericho come off as maniacal as possible. Plus when he smashed that liquor bottle on Punk's head >>>

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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Postman Dave View Post
    The stupid thing about that feud was everyone wanted it because they both referred to themselves as "the best in the world", so it made natural sense to decide who really was.

    Instead they skipped that and dicked around with all that other unnecessary nonsense.

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    It's kind of like what they did with the women's main event at Wrestlemania this year. They had a really simple, intriguing story to the match that basically wrote itself but instead tried to do too much and put in too much goofy shit.





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    Re: Grading Kofi and Seth's reigns

    Quote Originally Posted by LibSuperstar View Post
    That could've been great but I'm drawing blanks on what credible faces are there on RAW aside from Strowman and Reigns?
    I would have kept Styles as a babyface. His heel promos are terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    It's kind of like what they did with the women's main event at Wrestlemania this year. They had a really simple, intriguing story to the match that basically wrote itself but instead tried to do too much and put in too much goofy shit.
    My biggest complaint about the Women's Title Match was the finish, and not the botch job done by the referee, but the whole idea of ending the match on a roll-up like that. If WWE wanted to protect Rousey by not having her tap out, then they should have had Flair lose. As far as women's matches with too much "goofy shit" in them, I point to the first half of this year's Money in the Bank Match. Too many of the spots there looked not only scripted, but rehearsed.


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