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Thread: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

  1. #61
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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    Charlotte has turned in a good handful of solid matches this year.

    vs. Lynch and Carmella - 1/8
    vs. Asuka - Smackdown 3/26
    vs. Rousey and Lynch - WrestleMania 35
    vs. Lynch - Money in the Bank
    vs. Stratus - SummerSlam (huge carry job by Charlotte)
    w/Lynch vs. Bayley and Sasha - Smackdown 10/4
    vs. Bayley - Hell in a Cell
    vs. Bayley - Smackdown 10/11
    w/Natalya vs. The Kabuki Warriors - Raw 11/4
    vs. Ripley and Banks - Smackdown 11/22
    vs. Asuka - Raw 11/25
    vs. The Kabuki Warriors - Raw 12/2


    Granted, some didn't like the Mania triple threat and sure, the handicap against The Kabuki Warriors is debatable, but I think they were perfectly solid matches, though not without their faults. At the end of the day though I feel trying to argue Charlotte is the worst women's wrestler of the year is completely bogus. Even putting the actual wrestling to the side, it's not like she's had a stranglehold on the spotlight all year. She did win three titles this year, but the reigns were extremely short lived and overall benign. If anything, those title reigns were just used to elevate Becky and Bayley who would defeat her for the belts.

    So in no world do I see Charlotte as a legit candidate for this award when the likes of Allie, Britt Baker, Lacey Evans, Bayley, Tamina, Emi Sakura, Jessamyn Duke, Vanessa Borne, Leva Bates, Priscilla Kelly, Tenille Dashwood or even Dana Brooke exist. No chance.
    See I dont get the point in singling out the likes of Dana Brooke or Tamina. Yeah they're not very good but nothing they've done has been offensive or terrible. Like whats worse Dana putting on a series of unremarkable matches on Main Event or Charlotte botching, no selling, refusing to work properly with people in the ring, having shitty feuds, cutting atrocious promos, being a poor babyface again and concussing people in the Main Event?

    Like its easy to say Tamina is less talented than Charlotte, and she is dont get me wrong. But who has been more offensive in 2019? Who has delivered the worse shit in 2019? Have Dana, Tamina, Tenille, Evans, etc done anything that was truly terrible in 2019? Evans lowest point was easily working that match with Charlotte where Flair ignored everything Lacey did and was just bullying her way into hitting her moves and not letting Lacey do anything.

    Its easy to just go wrestler A is less talented ergo they're worse, but if nothing they do is actually bad, but you've got this high profile, repeat Main Eventer that's produced a lot of absolute garbage this year then wrestler B seems like the easy choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Good for EC for putting the other side of the argument together because Charlotte has had more good matches out of anyone woman on the main roster not called Becky Lynch (and not by much). It would be criminal for me to think of Charlotte as one of the worst womens wrestlers in the world when she's on the same show as Billie Kay who has had another mediocre year, looks like bambi on ice when she wrestles and her divas standard gimmick is totally out of tune with recent times AND her tag team killed any interest in the tag belts.

    Trying to pin the WM main event failing on her more than anyone else is comical, really is. She's not Hulk Hogan in WCW with creative control forcing her way into matches against the company's will. Vince made the call to put Charlotte into the match so if you're gonna say well Charlotte ruined the match because Becky Vs Ronda would of been better, then your issue with with Vince because Charlotte sure as hell didn't make the decision for him. All three women were horrible in the match so that is as much a black eye on Becky as it is Charlotte, arguably it's worse on Becky because that's the biggest match of her career and she flopped in it.

    The moonsaults are rubbish and by now someone should of told her to cut it out, but obviously the agents aren't doing that.
    Would you not agree this a flawed argument though to pin it all on Vince? Because everything shitty that happens in WWE is Vince's call. The Iiconics having such a lacklustre Title run was Vince's call as well. Billie Kay didn't choose to never defend the Titles, never get a feud going for the Titles or be endlessly jobbed out in 90% of her matches while her and Peyton were Champions. But thats what we can judge these wrestling characters on, what they're given too do. Is the whole Lana, Rusev, Lashley angle put down to just Vince's call, or is it a detriment to all three performers as well?

    So where do we draw the line between what can be pinned on a performer in this sort of subject?

    The WM Main Event didn't flop because of Charlotte, though the build to the match certainly suffered because of her involvement. The issue was her being involved in the first place. The only reason she was shoe horned in there was nepotism, no one outside the McMahons and hardcore Charlotte marks wanted her anywhere near that match. So the problem is that she was put into it regardless, just because she's the McMahons golden girl, or at least her surname makes her so.
    Last edited by ETE; 12-20-2019 at 08:40 PM.




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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

    Billie Kay has been a bad wrestler for years who never as good matches and only seems to contribute anything entertaining in the form of comedy backstage tantrums. Vince should take some criticism for effectively giving up with the womens tag titles being a serious thing by giving it to chicken shit mean girl heels, but at the same time good wrestlers are capable of overcoming bad creative to adapt and improve over time and exceed expectations in their matches The Icconics have proven themselves to be incapable of that. Vince could of made the same incorrect call over the titles if Sasha and Bayley dropped to Sonya and Mandy at Wrestlemania for example, but I would of had more faith in those two to have the odd decent match on TV and not looked green as fuck every time they wrestle. I don't mean to single out Billie either, there's plenty women on the lower rung of WWE's main roster that are really below average wrestlers who I wouldn't trust to put on a good singles match.

    I only brought Vince into the conversation because of the weird accusation that Charlotte's to blame for her own booking opportunities.

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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

    Honestly I haven't been offended by a single thing Charlotte has done, outside of powerbombing Kairi when she should have been able to deduce that she was injured. I didn't have a problem with the Mania main event and probably would have actually called it a success if not for the botched finish (which she wasn't involved in). I would also say the worst part of the build to that match, from my perspective, was Becky's knee injury angle. As for the Lacey match, I remember at the time insiders saying that they were instructed to work a shoot style. Which is dumb. But if true, it pretty much dismisses your whole argument that she's just out here overpowering people to make herself look better. Maybe there is merit to the claim but I'd need to see some more evidence.

    Ultimately, Charlotte just hasn't been that bad to me. She hasn't been bad... at all. Actually... she's been pretty good, albeit not as good as she's been for the majority of her career. She has enjoyable matches regularly and plays her snobby Queen gimmick to near perfection. So, it's not so much that I think the likes of Tamina, Dana and Lacey have been offensively bad. They just aren't good, and Charlotte is. At least that's the way I look at it.

    I don't think there's much reason to continue to debate it though because you and Zero are surely going to vote for her anyways. I'm not really gonna worry about it too much because I don't think many others will be voting for her. At least I hope not. As for me, I already sent in my nominations a couple of days ago. And for what it's worth, I didn't nominate Charlotte for anything, good or bad. Which I think is appropriate for the year she had.
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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

    All I can say is I guess we look at different things. The mediocrity that most women people will nominate for this put out doesn't 'offend' me. Being flat out terrible at times though as Charlotte has regularly this year does though. Nothing bad that Dana Brooke has done this year has been anywhere near as bad as the bad that Charlotte had produced. Charlotte has better highs but wow her lows are so damn bad.

    Even in this Era where everyone no sells everything, Charlotte's no selling of everything and her need to dominate her matches has been particularly bad.




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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ETE View Post
    All I can say is I guess we look at different things. The mediocrity that most women people will nominate for this put out doesn't 'offend' me. Being flat out terrible at times though as Charlotte has regularly this year does though. Nothing bad that Dana Brooke has done this year has been anywhere near as bad as the bad that Charlotte had produced. Charlotte has better highs but wow her lows are so damn bad.

    Even in this Era where everyone no sells everything, Charlotte's no selling of everything and her need to dominate her matches has been particularly bad.
    Look at my favorite wrestlers. I think that's pretty obvious.

    Hey, at least we can agree on our love of Tessa and Sami.
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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion



    I will not tolerate this Billie Kay slander.





    How can anyone not love that? I know Silk will have my back on this.

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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

    Billy Kay is the shit my friends. And she is IIIIICONIC!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Spoiler:


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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

    I love The Iiconics as characters.
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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC
    Charlotte has turned in a good handful of solid matches this year.

    vs. Lynch and Carmella - 1/8
    vs. Asuka - Smackdown 3/26
    vs. Rousey and Lynch - WrestleMania 35
    vs. Lynch - Money in the Bank
    vs. Stratus - SummerSlam (huge carry job by Charlotte)
    w/Lynch vs. Bayley and Sasha - Smackdown 10/4
    vs. Bayley - Hell in a Cell
    vs. Bayley - Smackdown 10/11
    w/Natalya vs. The Kabuki Warriors - Raw 11/4
    vs. Ripley and Banks - Smackdown 11/22
    vs. Asuka - Raw 11/25
    vs. The Kabuki Warriors - Raw 12/2


    Granted, some didn't like the Mania triple threat and sure, the handicap against The Kabuki Warriors is debatable, but I think they were perfectly solid matches, though not without their faults. At the end of the day though I feel trying to argue Charlotte is the worst women's wrestler of the year is completely bogus. Even putting the actual wrestling to the side, it's not like she's had a stranglehold on the spotlight all year. She did win three titles this year, but the reigns were extremely short lived and overall benign. If anything, those title reigns were just used to elevate Becky and Bayley who would defeat her for the belts.

    So in no world do I see Charlotte as a legit candidate for this award when the likes of Allie, Britt Baker, Lacey Evans, Bayley, Tamina, Emi Sakura, Jessamyn Duke, Vanessa Borne, Leva Bates, Priscilla Kelly, Tenille Dashwood or even Dana Brooke exist. No chance.
    To be honest for you to bring up the WM main event as a positive makes me think that you're such a fan that you're not really interested in being unbiased on this subject. Even Ed, the other person who rushes to Charlotte's defense on the regular would have to admit that the WM event failed, (though he's still trying to shift blame away of course) But I do respect you so I'm gonna give a real answer to this. Let's look at those matches you mentioned.

    vs. Lynch & Carmella - I admit I have no memory of this, and I certainly will not go back and watch a match with those 3.

    vs. Asuka - We've been down this road before, but even in this match Charlotte blew multiple spots and looked generally bad. Asuka did her best but I'm not gonna let this slide. Someone like Dana hasn't had a single match where she looked worse.

    WM Triple Threat - She was atrocious in this and nearly everyone wished they weren't the main event afterwards, come on cuh.

    vs Lynch MITB - This was super short to set up Bayley and she blew it here too when she botched the finish and didn't kick out, what are you talking about as this being a good match? Again, Dana hasn't had a match worse than this in the entire year 2019.

    vs. Stratus - I actually didn't think this completely sucked like some people but are you serious with this list? At best it was a nice nostalgia match where Trish looked good. Also as far as carry-job if you actually watch it Trish was the more dynamic performer and the time the crowd got into it was her comeback. Charlotte's heel control was the definition of uninspired.

    SD on Fox tag - I had this at **3/4 and a good buildup tag for Charlotte/Bayley. It wasn't a bad match and her & Bayley brought strong effort, but hardly anything to write home about. This might have been her best performance on this list to this point, keep in mind we're in October at this point. Also even then we had a Raw tag that went super long and she looked particularly awful in just this week and this match wasn't good enough to make up for it.

    Bayley HIAC - I had this at **, utterly nothing match and they had none of the intensity brought in the SD match. Also why did they put the title on Charlotte for like a week? To make Bayley cry? The SD match was a bit better, probably of similar quality to the tag. Actually they had a SD match in May which I think was legitimately good and her best match which you missed, Bayley's as well that was better than this and much better than HIAC.

    w/Nattie vs. Kabuki - This was a solid tag. Her first match since that Bayley match that crossed 3 stars. She was the worst of the 4 in the match however.

    vs. Ripley & Banks - Another good one, though again, she was the lesser of the 3 women though you could argue by design to focus on Rhea so much.

    vs. Asuka 11/25 - Ok this one is a legit pick, probably the first I would actually count as a notch for her 2019. Not only was the match quite good but she was significantly better here than their SD title match in March. Asuka didn't carry her and I give her props for doing well.

    vs. Kabuki Warriors - This is another one that I think she really deserves credit for because she made a really hard situation (handicap match) work, and she wasn't carried by two better workers, she contributed positively as well. Just compre this to Becky's the next week and this was clearly better.

    So yeah...I'm not really buying your list holding up to analysis at all although her against the Kabuki Warriors she started to turn it up. And not to mention her matches where she was very bad in. Her performance at TLC was inexcusably embarrassing, certainly one of the worst performances of the year. But that said there are lesser workers talent-wise so let's compare your list of people you say are worse:

    Allie: She was put in a terrible situation in Impact and is currently a manager, but had no terrible matches of note wrestling-wise. Just stuck in a godawful wrestlecrap feud with Su Yung and Rosemary. Surely Su should be picked before her and in general hasn't been given the same chances as Charlotte either way.

    Britt Baker - Much like Average Adam, you have Below-average Britt! That said, she wasn't terrible for me, just a very mediocre and uninspiring worker. I wouldn't vote for her and she did nothing as bad as Charlotte's bottom 5 matches. I think considering Charlotte's push she would have to be better.

    Lacey: Ok she is legitimately up there, her feud with Becky was just awful and really tanked the hottest wrestler at the time. She honestly doesn't have any good matches in 2019 in my opinion though the Nattie blowoff was close. I can buy her below Charlotte in-ring, although she is a much better promo and actress. She's also super green and will get better. They let her down by pushing her too hard. Honestly, I would probably vote Charlotte over her. Lacey did her best, but needs more time. Charlotte really should have been better.

    Bayley: She's not that different from Britt to me, neither terrible nor good, that said her & Charlotte had a really good match against each other, but there was nothing as bad as many Charlotte matches.

    Tamina - Real talk, has she even wrestled this year???

    Emi Sakura - The sad thing is she's an extremely talented wrestler and very important to women's wrestling in the East, but her gimmick in AEW is absolutely HORRIBLE. They don't get women's wrestling at all and Omega should be ashamed of himself for allowing this to go on the air. Still though, what matches has she had that were worse than like 5-10 Charlotte awful performances? If she changed gimmicks then she wouldn't be in this.

    Duke - She's hideous in the ring. Probably the worst of this whole list and not even good on the mic. A very fair pick. I'd probably agree, but again, she's barely wrestled on tv to have bad matches. She hasn't had a worse year than Charlotte. Be fair.

    Borne - A poor worker for sure, though I still think I could name 5 Charlotte matches which were worse than anything she did. She barely has wrestled and has effectively been demoted to Aliyah's second.

    Bates - Yikes. She's awful. Much like Duke and Lacey, fair picks.

    Kelly - Ditto to Bates though again she hasn't wrestled enough to have that bad of a year.

    Tenille - Seems to have lost motivation and turned into an average worker, but hardly "bad". What inspired her there, did the Iiconics make you think all Aussies are bad and you just wanted non-WWE names?

    Dana - I would love to know about all her bad matches that makes you think she is so bad, when she's actually improved quite a bit running through Main Event. She just needs a chance and can impress. Like Kaitlyn before her or even someone like YOSHI-HASHI in NJPW, they're victims of being green and awful at first, and that reputation following them forever to some people, even much longer than it should.

    I think you can make legit cases for Lacey, Duke, & Bates and I would throw Su Yung in there, as well as Peyton Royce as ultimately as bad as Billie is there hasn't been a worse performance in wrestling this year than Peyton and Sasha this year in the 8 woman tag which is a WMOTYC. But Charlotte has had so much more bad than the others is the reason why it should be Charlotte. Half of those people legit just got moved to non-wrestling roles so it's hard to really get that riled up about them.

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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

    In case no one's said it yet, holy shit is Katie Forbes bad. Like, someone was clearly graduated from training early. She's somehow booked a lot too. Mostly because of RVD.


  11. #71
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    Re: 2019 Worst Women's Wrestler of the Year Ongoing Discussion

    Oh yeah, she's awful. If she was booked as much as any of these other women, she'd have run away with this thing lol.
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