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Thread: Brock Lesnar

  1. #1
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    Brock Lesnar

    I can feel the hatred and disgust hurtling towards me already.

    Come on, give me a chance? Right then, here we go. To be clear, at no point of this thread am I expecting any of you to class Brock Lesnar as the greatest technical wrestler of 2015 to 2019. I don't expect that, and you're not going to - I don't - but I do think he's worthy of discussing. I mean, I could easily see Lesnar place around 20-30 for some people, heck - might even break a few people's Top 15. Let's take a look.

    2015 Highlights:
    PWI Feud of the Year vs. Undertaker
    My Personal Match of the Year vs. John Cena and Seth Rollins at Rumble 2015
    Match vs. Roman Reigns w/ Seth Rollins Cash In at Wrestlemania 31
    Two Decent Matches with Undertaker

    2016 Highlights:
    Decent Triple Threat vs. Reigns/Ambrose at Fastlane
    Interesting Feud w/ Dean Ambrose
    That ending to Lesnar vs. Orton at Summerslam 2016

    2017 Highlights:
    Brock Lesnar kills Enzo Amore at Royal Rumble 2017
    Summerslam Fatal Four Way vs. Roman Reigns, Braun Strowman and Samoa Joe
    Brock Lesnar vs. AJ Styles at Survivor Series

    2018 Highlights:
    vs. Roman Reigns at Wrestlemania
    My Personal Match of the Year vs. Daniel Bryan at Survivor Series 2018

    Now starting to see why I'm saying Lesnar for a lower end pick? For those of you that are making this all about wrestling, it should be about the times he is around - as opposed to the lack of wrestling from him. He doesn't appear much, which is, of course, a con of putting Lesnar at the top of the list - but for me at least, when he does show up: It is damn entertaining. I've looked at four years there, for half of the years I've looked at, he was involved in my favourite WWE match of the year - which does go to show something.

    It's likely that this time next year, Lesnar will not be with the company, and will most likely fall out of the discussion for Best Workers of the Late 2010s. My personal prediction is that WWE is behind Strowman once again, and we will get a very good match at the Rumble 19' between the both of them. If Lesnar then has the proposed match at Mania against Rollins, or McIntyre, we could be in for yet another Match of the Year candidate. If Lesnar then shows up at Summerslam and Survivor Series; then friends, we could be looking at four potential Match of the Year candidates (His last two Survivor Series appearances have both been widely regarded as MOTY candidates) so he can easily do it.

    This is certainly an entry for me that will rely largely on what he manages to bring to the table in the upcoming year of 2019. Until we get to the end of the year, no one can know for sure - but I thought I'd create the thread so that we are primed for those discussions in the chance that we get some good matches from Lesnar at the next Big Four shows.

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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    I love Brock more than others but he just doesn't have the matches to make me put him on the list. His 2015 was great. That feud (and match) against Ambrose you mentioned was terrible. You're still missing the mark on this. It isn't about moments like the Enzo thing, it's about ringwork. And his 16/17/18 just were not good enough for me to consider and I don't have high hopes for him in 2019.


    The only time WWE came close to a good story line post Attitude Era was Undertaker/Mordecai - Dakstang

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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Mitch View Post
    I love Brock more than others but he just doesn't have the matches to make me put him on the list. His 2015 was great. That feud (and match) against Ambrose you mentioned was terrible. You're still missing the mark on this. It isn't about moments like the Enzo thing, it's about ringwork. And his 16/17/18 just were not good enough for me to consider and I don't have high hopes for him in 2019.
    Yeah I get you with it being about ringwork. But for my money, over the last few years - he's had some of the best matches of the year. In 2015, his matches at the Rumble, Mania and Summerslam were some of my favourite from WWE. In 2016, his match at Fastlane was in the Top Ten for me. 2017, his matches at Summerslam and Survivor Series were both some of the best of that year - and this year, his match again at Mania was highly enjoyable - and his match at the Survivor Series, is right now, my favourite WWE match of 2018.

    I get it's about ringwork, and for three of the four years we're looking at (15, 16, 17, 18) - at least one of his matches was a Match of the Year candidate for me.

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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    First time I've ever seen somebody say his match against Roman at Mania this year as highly enjoyable.


    The only time WWE came close to a good story line post Attitude Era was Undertaker/Mordecai - Dakstang

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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    Does his UFC work also count to judge his criteria in this?

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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    2015 we were still getting great Brock with two very high end matches against Roman and the Rumble triple threat and a very commendable feud with Taker, probably Taker's last decent program. I know they're only short matches, but the Goldberg stuff I thought was way more entertaining than I was expecting and I was a high man on the Orton Summerslam match, but around 2016 you start to see some big weaknesses show with how bad the Ambrose mania match was. 2017 the Summerslam 4 way match is great, but the he killed Joe and Braun as potential main event acts and really that's been his regular level of performance for 2 years now other than the one night a year he works with a fantastic wrestler at Survivor Series.

    Anytime he faces Braun or Roman (WM31 aside) he is one of the worst and laziest wrestlers in the world and that means I can't consider him for this. Some lovely peak matches once a year though.

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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    If his 2018 wasn't such a clusterfuck I'd consider him, and even then I don't think I'm totally ruling it out.

    Brock has been responsible for my match of the year in 2015 and 2017, and runner up for me in 2018. The first Roman match is my favourite WWE match of the last five years, and the triple threat at the Rumble isn't far behind. He had a shockingly good pair of matches with Undertaker which are still the last great Undertaker matches. The Bryan and AJ matches were both MOTYCs. The Goldberg match is one of my favourite short matches ever, and the Joe match from Great Balls of Fire wouldn't be far behind that.

    Let's discuss the negatives:

    - The Ambrose match. Probably the biggest negative for Brock in my opinion because he had no interest in the match being good and phoned it in. While Ambrose is an inconsistent wrestler, I don't think he was the guy at fault for this being bad. Which is a shame because the build was quite interesting.
    - The Braun matches. First of all, I think the booking hurts this a lot. Everyone wants to see Braun destroy guys, but once he gets in the ring with Brock he's neutered. Secondly, Braun is kind of bad. And I say this as someone who likes the guy, but he is extremely limited as a worker. Brock had one disappointing match at No Mercy 2017, and a bad match at Crown Jewel but I don't think that could have been anything other than bad with the booking going into it.
    - The Roman matches in 2018. These are a big negative against him. The Summerslam 2018 match wasn't bad from what I remember, but Wrestlemania was my worst match of the year and GRR wasn't much better. This was bad from everyone involved, not just Brock. The booking stunk, Roman was bad, Brock was bad.

    Those are some big negatives against Brock but I don't think they're deal breakers. The positives for Brock are that he offers something that very few if any wrestlers in the world offer. You can put his big and best matches (Roman, Rollins and Cena, the four way from Summerslam, Bryan, AJ) against anyone else's top matches and I think Brock's matches would come out favourably most of the time for me. A good 2019 will have me voting for Brock.





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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    Last night showed motivated Lesnar is still fucking awesome. Hands down the best Balor match I've ever seen. He made Finn look great in defeat, sold his ass off big time for him. The stomach-first bump into the table corner was so nasty and his bug eyes during the finish were crazy.
    Last edited by King Steventon; 01-28-2019 at 06:33 PM.

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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    He's incredible. Despite a poor 2018 and not many matches to his name, I'm going to find a spot on my list for him I think. Great performance last night.

    Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Shock; 01-28-2019 at 06:29 PM.





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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    Lesnar must fucking hate Roman and Braun They look like shit after these last couple matches with Balor and Bryan getting way closer to convincing wins over Brock than them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakstang
    You can't have a reasonable discussion about serious topics with people like Marketh around.

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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    Its a shame that he's not more motivated because fuck me, when he's up for a match, he truly goes for it (Goldberg, Bryan, Balor, AJ). Like Markeths said, it makes you wonder if he just hates Braun & Roman (or at least hates working with them )


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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    first Roman match was excellent, the others all felt like a mix of laziness and shitty WWE agenting

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    Re: Brock Lesnar

    I've posted my theory before on why Brock tries hard against smaller guys while making big guys look like shit, but last night it was on show again, when he wants to be great, he's fucking tremendous.

    He'll be a contender for my #50 spot because his good stuff is too great to leave off, but his worst stuff is so bad and contributes to killing people's popularity that I can't call him one of the best workers of the last 5 years. He's too inconsistent. Get a great match out of Seth Rollins at mania and now we're talking.

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