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Thread: Johnny Gargano

  1. #1
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    Johnny Gargano

    Okay, here’s a polarizing one.

    If this was 2010-2014 I don’t think I would even think about Gargano for something like this. But ever since working in the WWE in 2015, it’s hard to deny he’s been one of the most prolific workers in the second half of the decade so far.

    A shining example of versatile singles and tag work. He was our babyface of the year two years in a row. A laundry list of all sorts of matches in NXT. Takeovers, television, DIY. He’s without a doubt the greatest worker in NXT history. He’s really come into his own after being tamed by the WWE. I need to rewatch his indy stuff in 2015/2016 and see how that fares.

    A lot of obvious cons though. I’m sure people are going to see the Ciampa feud and the second half of 2018 a huge blister in his WWE campaign. I know his acting can be really bad and have an effect on matches. I know some people think he’s been in NXT for too long. I know some people just downright don’t like him.

    Where could you see Johnny? His 2019 should be interesting and have a huge impact on his positioning.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    Johnny could have an absolutely stinking 2019 and he makes my list.

    I know that the general feeling is that he's been underwhelming/poor in the second half of 2018. But he has to his name:

    - One of the best WWE matches of the last five years and my 2018 MOTY with Andrade Almas.
    - One of the best tag matches in WWE history with the Revival. Twice. And another with AOP.
    - Multiple good/great TV matches on NXT, Takeover, even his brief run in the CWC was terrific.

    He's got as good an argument as any other WWE wrestler, and I wouldn't feel comfortable at this point putting anyone from the 'E above him except for Styles.

    Looking back at his 2015 and 2016 will be interesting, but I think that he's had two and a half years of being a truly elite performer on NXT that can't be shaken off.





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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    He's a lock for my list but he's in real danger of tumbling down the rankings if he has another year like 2018.

    He obviously has some really fucking high highs, I think there was a stretch of time where he was in the MOTN for about a half dozen Takeovers in a row, one of the best babyfaces we've seen this generation, having really special, memorable matches. To excel in both singles and tags is a huge thing for me because it shows variety in how to work a different style of match. I don't want to go over old ground with the Gargano/Ciampa feud, but it's unlikely that will be the reason I won't have him high because I can't see how they can do another year like this one where they are both on NXT and both stuck in this title picture.

    What's really going to hold Gargano back from breaking into the top of my list is volume and the nature of the beast of being an exclusive NXT talent. In 2018 Johnny Gargano worked 12 matches that made tape. 12. When you factor in that a couple of those were short TV matches you're left with a situation where if someone has a great tournament in Japan, they'll of matched Gargano's output in a 3 week tour with the rest of the year to impress. Even if you want to look closer to home to see my point, a lot is made of SD doing nothing with Andrade Almas, but he's wrestling way more regularly than Gargano is and has been having really good TV matches with Bryan, AJ, Ali. Just extrapolating it further, since he debuted in NXT in 2015 Gargano has worked 52 televised matches for NXT. Guys like Walter, Zack Sabre Jr, Timothy Thatcher and Fenix (just picking 4 at random who have threads atm) work that amount of matches in 1 year and go toe to toe with Gargano for match quality so it becomes impossible for me to put him above any of them and that problem only continues if he has another full year in NXT.

    Now Gargano is someone who could buck that volume > peak trend for me because his peaks are so so good, but he'd have to get back next year to where he was in 2016-17 because it's well documented I've not been a fan of him recently.

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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed
    What's really going to hold Gargano back from breaking into the top of my list is volume and the nature of the beast of being an exclusive NXT talent. In 2018 Johnny Gargano worked 12 matches that made tape. 12. When you factor in that a couple of those were short TV matches you're left with a situation where if someone has a great tournament in Japan, they'll of matched Gargano's output in a 3 week tour with the rest of the year to impress. Even if you want to look closer to home to see my point, a lot is made of SD doing nothing with Andrade Almas, but he's wrestling way more regularly than Gargano is and has been having really good TV matches with Bryan, AJ, Ali. Just extrapolating it further, since he debuted in NXT in 2015 Gargano has worked 52 televised matches for NXT. Guys like Walter, Zack Sabre Jr, Timothy Thatcher and Fenix (just picking 4 at random who have threads atm) work that amount of matches in 1 year and go toe to toe with Gargano for match quality so it becomes impossible for me to put him above any of them and that problem only continues if he has another full year in NXT.
    Honestly, you could make this argument about virtually any WWE performer since their methods of booking often don't emphasize work rate or at times seemingly directly contradict that ideal. For example just look at the Charlotte thread. People were essentially talking up a handful of noteworthy matches and compare it to my Mayu thread when not only were there 5 times that, I'm certain I could have named 30 or more that would have been better than the next best Charlotte match. How can you compare someone like Ambrose or even someone good like AJ against a wrestler like WALTER or ZSJ who have literally dozens of those matches to their name on a yearly basis compared to a handful of noteworthy ones from the WWE guys? It's more the nature of the beast than anything. It should absolutely account for something and I agree with you specifically with Gargano's case, but I think just wrestling a bunch of nothing matches to get put on cagematch isn't really a net positive, which is essentially the difference between Gargano and someone like AJ this year.

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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    Haven't seen much of his indie runs outside of his PWG matches which are ehhh at best imo. So I need to watch some of that. His DiY run is fantastic, with great tag team matches against the Revival and Authors of Pain. His singles stuff has been good but other than the Almas match in January, I've never truly been wowed to the point of thinking that "he is the best wrestler in NXT history" or anything to that degree. A good wrestler but I don't consider him a great one. He'll be a low Top 50 wrestler for me.

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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Honestly, you could make this argument about virtually any WWE performer since their methods of booking often don't emphasize work rate or at times seemingly directly contradict that ideal. For example just look at the Charlotte thread. People were essentially talking up a handful of noteworthy matches and compare it to my Mayu thread when not only were there 5 times that, I'm certain I could have named 30 or more that would have been better than the next best Charlotte match. How can you compare someone like Ambrose or even someone good like AJ against a wrestler like WALTER or ZSJ who have literally dozens of those matches to their name on a yearly basis compared to a handful of noteworthy ones from the WWE guys? It's more the nature of the beast than anything. It should absolutely account for something and I agree with you specifically with Gargano's case
    I feel like it's a bigger problem in NXT though, those guys literally only get one match a month if they're lucky and in some cases it is talent that would be #1 contenders if they wrestled anywhere else.

    but I think just wrestling a bunch of nothing matches to get put on cagematch isn't really a net positive, which is essentially the difference between Gargano and someone like AJ this year.
    The difference between Gargano and AJ is AJ isn't the reason why any of his matches suck.

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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    I feel like it's a bigger problem in NXT though, those guys literally only get one match a month if they're lucky and in some cases it is talent that would be #1 contenders if they wrestled anywhere else.



    The difference between Gargano and AJ is AJ isn't the reason why any of his matches suck.
    Yeah I'm with you on both of those points & we're basically agreeing on my point. I was just trying to say Gargano not wrestling enough isn't a purely Gargano issue, you could say that about virtually anyone in WWE, even the best ones like AJ. NXT it's definitely worse but compare the big WWE guys to other companies. The level of output just isn't the same as in other places for reasons it's hard to blame anyone for really.

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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    Johnny Wrestling is the Apex Of Wrestling of this decade guy is the best worker in the company

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    CWA World Heavyweight Champion
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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    Johnny Wrestling is the Apex Of Wrestling of this decade guy is the best worker in the company
    You need examples to back up claims like that my man


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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Mitch View Post
    You need examples to back up claims like that my man
    Gargano vs. Ciampa
    Gargano vs. Black
    Gargano vs. Cien
    Gargano vs. Ciampa II
    DYI vs. AoP
    DYI vs. AOP vs. Revival
    DYI Vs. Revival
    Johnny vs. Tommaso CWC
    Gargano vs. Dunne
    Gargano vs. Perkins
    DYI vs. Cage/Elgin
    Gargano/Lars/Black/Dain

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    Brayden Bridges




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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    How badly has Gargano's stock fallen? Those DIY tags were all pretty strong, but the long overkill Shawn Michaels-agented weepy eyed fake classics are pretty dreadful, and I can't see Finn Balor of all people changing that.

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    Re: Johnny Gargano

    Went from at best "He'll be a low Top 50 wrestler for me" to absolutely not so I say his stock dropped with me dramatically. Awful 2019 leaves him completely out of contention for me.

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