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Thread: Kevin Owens

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    Kevin Owens

    Probably not someone you first think of as best WWE workers these days, but I think his run has had plenty of highlight. All of the Zayn matches have been very good at worst case, the LMS match against Ambrose was one of the best modern day WWE plunder matches, and even when putting over a guy like Brain in 2 minutes he still goes the extra mile to make his opponent look good.

    He's hurt by the atrocious WWE booking and too often being weasel heel Owens, which is no good at all, rather than bully heel Owens, who is great but rarely seen.

    The Cena matches started great but then got tired, however I'm more inclined to blame Big Match John. Got the best match out of Finn and the best match out of of Jericho in a long time. There are probably other things worth mentioning.

    Not a top level contender but feel he could be Top 10 potential.

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    Re: Kevin Owens

    It's a no from me. I don't like his style at all - I think he's a pretty poor wrestler between his spots these days and I just feel frustrated when I watch him. Mostly because I know he can be a lot better. He's incredibly spotty. He was bad this year, average the year before, and I don't like the Cena series at all. Plus he has quite a few poor main event level matches to his name, e.g. the hell in a cell with Rollins.

    He has some positives. I love the Zayn series, but then again Sami is one of the best wrestlers in the world. I enjoyed the Finn matches, but that's slim pickings for four years worth of work.

    I would say that even if he had a great 2019 I'd struggle to consider him.





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    Re: Kevin Owens

    Having a bad HIAC with Seth Rollins doesn't feel like a big black mark for me. And I don't buy him being terrible this year when lumbered with Shane McMahon and putting over Braun as his main programmes. Not that there's a list of 2018 Owens matches I'd recommend but I don't think it's down to ability.

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    Re: Kevin Owens

    I'm a big fan of Owens now as I was a few years ago but I he still performs occasionally. His TV match with Zayn this year are probably my TV matches of the year and he got one of the better matches out of Rollins than his so called "great matches" with Dolph Ziggler and Finn Balor this year too. Whilst his matches with AJ weren't great match like predicted, they are always really good bouts which were hampered by Shane crap. He also got a really good match out of Shane McMahon which may just be the best match of Shane's life. A match that brought back the drama and the fear of potentially falling threw the cage. It was frighting to watch to me which I can't recall thinking the same for most over HIAC's I've watched. His 2016 was fantastic until he won the title imo. Great matches with Sami Zayn, Dean Ambrose, the 4 Way where he won the title, Cesaro, etc. His 2015 was even better. His matches with Cena were definitely spot heavy as most of Cena's matches were at the time but to me, they still leave a lasting impact on my memory to this day. More so than any other of Cena's matches in that run. Again, great matches with Sami Zayn and very good matches with Balor.

    I think there is a very good argument for KO when you take in account all his good matches. Yes, he relies of headlock city too much and is a spot heavy wrestler but he has a resume that's hard to argue against.
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    Re: Kevin Owens

    I'm still in KO's corner. While it's true his 2018 has been hot garbage, it's also true that he deserves almost none of the blame for that. He was in a lame story to start the year and then spent months as a punching bag for Braun. Even so, he took some of the craziest bumps of the year against Braun and had memorable bouts with Zayn and Rollins. He has had a bumpy ride so far in his WWE career but is good enough for me to consider him among the top 20 or so I think.
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    Re: Kevin Owens

    Owens is polarizing for sure. He’s had legendary moments and times of excellent character work, and then times of poor booking and oversaturated comedy. I’ll always root for the guy, but I don’t know how high he would be up here for me.
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    Re: Kevin Owens

    To me it seems like there's always an excuse for bad Kevin Owens performances. It's Cena's fault the matches were spotty, or it's Shane's fault that the AJ matches were disappointing.

    He has one guy that he has consistently great matches with (Sami), and it just happens to be one of the best wrestlers in the company, Sami Zayn. He had good matches with Cesaro and Roman Reigns, two other guys that were among the best in the company at the time.

    He has also been afforded 20+ minute matches with guys like Rollins, Balor, Jericho, AJ Styles and I can't say I cared much for any of them (the Balor matches were okay). The fact he failed repeatedly with Styles is a particular black mark, and I don't for one second buy the Shane McMahon excuse for that.

    That's not what I would expect from one of the best wrestlers over a five year period. Where are his really strong matches against guys that aren't already acknowledged as fantastic wrestlers? The Balor matches are one. I didn't care for the Shane matches. I thought the Jericho matches were disappointing. I think the Cena matches go from good to outright horrible for the 2nd and 3rd one.

    I'd compare him to Edge. He's had some good, maybe great matches with the right opponent or in a gimmick match. But I can't say that I enjoy his style and I wouldn't trust him to have a good match with just anybody. I think he has far too many sympathisers and people that remember that he was good in 2015 and he was good before coming to WWE.





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    Re: Kevin Owens

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    To me it seems like there's always an excuse for bad Kevin Owens performances. It's Cena's fault the matches were spotty, or it's Shane's fault that the AJ matches were disappointing.

    He has one guy that he has consistently great matches with (Sami), and it just happens to be one of the best wrestlers in the company, Sami Zayn. He had good matches with Cesaro and Roman Reigns, two other guys that were among the best in the company at the time.

    He has also been afforded 20+ minute matches with guys like Rollins, Balor, Jericho, AJ Styles and I can't say I cared much for any of them (the Balor matches were okay). The fact he failed repeatedly with Styles is a particular black mark, and I don't for one second buy the Shane McMahon excuse for that.

    That's not what I would expect from one of the best wrestlers over a five year period. Where are his really strong matches against guys that aren't already acknowledged as fantastic wrestlers? The Balor matches are one. I didn't care for the Shane matches. I thought the Jericho matches were disappointing. I think the Cena matches go from good to outright horrible for the 2nd and 3rd one.

    I'd compare him to Edge. He's had some good, maybe great matches with the right opponent or in a gimmick match. But I can't say that I enjoy his style and I wouldn't trust him to have a good match with just anybody. I think he has far too many sympathisers and people that remember that he was good in 2015 and he was good before coming to WWE.
    oh, Owens was definitely at fault with the Cena matches, but they are clearly more endemic of Big Match John than a typical Owens match. Owens was guilty of working that type of match but it wasn't his type of match. I actually liked the first AJ PPV match but that's maybe a bit moot. The Shane ref stuff clearly did hurt those matches but the work outside the booking wasn't great.

    I guess our difference mainly comes down to that I dug his matches with Jericho and Balor, and I think those guys are ass, and I also rate the Ambrose LMS match fairly highly in modern WWE.

    Here is a pretty great RAW match with Cesaro (yes I know what you are going to say) where Owens turns in a really good, focused performance (date is 4/11/16 if you have the Network):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cpZHwkAK4c

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    Re: Kevin Owens

    My instincts say absolutely no chance, and top 10 sounds completely bonkers Steve.

    Took a look at my top 100 match lists of 2016 and 2017. 2016 he appears 5 times (2 of which were the rumble at the 7 man ladder match) so I do think that was a good year for him, but 2017 he doesn't appear at all, and spoiler alert he won't be in my 2018 list either. I didn't do one in 2015, but memory says that was a good year for him too with the Zayn and Finn matches (my guess is the Cena matches haven't aged well at all). I think he was pretty bad in 2017, he had a feud with AJ Styles that was worse than Nakamura's feud with AJ Styles and in general his US title run there stunk, the Shane match was ok but not too good, the tag match with Orton/Nak was bad, going into 2018 I didn't think anything positive of the Daniel Bryan return match and the Braun feud was terrible, taking one crazy dive at the end of the match does not redeem those matches. Raw is a cesspool atm and I have no confidence that he'll have a good 2019 when he returns from double knee surgery.

    It's unfair to place blame on Owens, but whatever brand he's on is the worst brand of the two. Raw 2016 and 2018, and SD 2017 are horrible periods of time.

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    Re: Kevin Owens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    My instincts say absolutely no chance, and top 10 sounds completely bonkers Steve.

    Took a look at my top 100 match lists of 2016 and 2017. 2016 he appears 5 times (2 of which were the rumble at the 7 man ladder match) so I do think that was a good year for him, but 2017 he doesn't appear at all, and spoiler alert he won't be in my 2018 list either. I didn't do one in 2015, but memory says that was a good year for him too with the Zayn and Finn matches (my guess is the Cena matches haven't aged well at all). I think he was pretty bad in 2017, he had a feud with AJ Styles that was worse than Nakamura's feud with AJ Styles and in general his US title run there stunk, the Shane match was ok but not too good, the tag match with Orton/Nak was bad, going into 2018 I didn't think anything positive of the Daniel Bryan return match and the Braun feud was terrible, taking one crazy dive at the end of the match does not redeem those matches. Raw is a cesspool atm and I have no confidence that he'll have a good 2019 when he returns from double knee surgery.

    It's unfair to place blame on Owens, but whatever brand he's on is the worst brand of the two. Raw 2016 and 2018, and SD 2017 are horrible periods of time.
    Yes it is unfair and should not be an indictment on Owens. Agreed that he shouldn't sniff the top 10, top 20 is even questionable. I mean, the more you look at it, there are so many candidates out there. Quite a few of them are just clearly better than Owens without question and them there will be at least a dozen around the same level who have a good case to be placed above him.
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    Re: Kevin Owens

    On reflection, Top 10 is definitely overrating him. He should make my list but where will probably depend on what he does in 2019.

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    Re: Kevin Owens

    I've always felt like hes a guy who there's a big disconnect between reality and expectations of him. He's a solid, but completely unspectacular worker.




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    Re: Kevin Owens

    Bumping just to say the Bryan vs Owens vs Ali match was really damn good. Granted Bryan and Ali were also there and everyone was bringing it, but it served as a reminder than Owens can really go. I see what the detractors are saying, but he'll have to really stink up the rest of this year for him to fall out of my Top 50.

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    Re: Kevin Owens

    I just don't see it, I'm afraid. Not my style of wrestling and more bad than good.

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