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Thread: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

  1. #181
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHowdy87 View Post
    Randy Orton is an interesting one.

    I've honestly never liked or enjoyed his work.

    That being said, I can put aside my personal likes and dislikes and look and look at things objectively. Orton is a solid worker and character and he's had plenty of good matches in his career. How many of those matches do I actually remember or have gone back and watched more than once? Very few. I'm struggling to think of 5 truly memorable matches he's had in his career (vs Foley at Backlash 2004, vs Benoit at Summer Slam 2004 and vs Cena at Summer Slam 2007. I honestly can't think of any others off the top of my head). He's been over as a heel and a face most of his career though and fans love the whole RKO outta nowhere deal. I don't have any issue with people that highly rate Orton. I just personally have never cared for him at all, especially in the last 5 years or so.

    Some of the issues I have with him are his shit attitude and the mountain of things he's gotten away with over the years. He's a protected species like Shawn Michaels was. So many wrestlers have been punished far more severely for far lesser transgressions. Orton always gets a pass because he was the chosen one. What would get most guys fired got Orton a slap on the wrist and that's just fucking bullshit. I can't support someone like that.

    Another thing he has in common with Shawn Michaels is his tendency to throw his toys out of the cot when something goes wrong in a match. They draw so much attention to something that's gone wrong and then begrudgingly finish the match all the while with a sour look on their face and a clear lack of enthusiasm. It takes me right out of the match when I see that shit. This isn't the best analogy, but it's like as if I'm watching a movie and suddenly the scene turns into an outtake. It kills the immersion. Michaels ruined that Summer Slam 1995 ladder match finish by throwing the biggest dummy spit I've ever seen in wrestling. Orton has the infamous Kofi Kingston "STUPID" dummy spit to his name (among plenty of other similar incidents).

    There's many lesser wrestlers as far as in-ring skill and/or mic work than Orton that I have enjoyed much more over the years. I seriously can't wait till he hangs up the boots. These days I find something else to do when an Orton match is happening on the rare occasions I'm actually watching the product. I just have absolutely no interest in any of his feuds or matches.

    Also, just to dig the boots in that little bit more, he has easily my 2 least favorite theme songs in the history of wrestling (Burn In My Light & Voices). I'd rather listen to Steinerize or American Males than those shitty songs.
    Good summary, basically sums up a lot of my thoughts in the thread so far. He's kind of like Triple H where I don't like him as a wrestler, but I can appreciate that he has some memorable matches, moments and even years to his name.

    That said, you are dead wrong about Voices. Voices is a great theme in my opinion. Burn in my Light is very bad though.

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  2. #182
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton



    Day 28:

    World Heavyweight Championship: Randy Orton (c) vs. The Big Show – Survivor Series 2013


    How tone deaf can WWE be? This match will answer that one for you. In 2013 there was no hotter wrestler than Daniel Bryan. He was on a role and getting reactions that were dwarfing everyone else on the roster by miles. Not even Cena and CM Punk could go toe to toe with him for reactions. The Yes! Chant was the thing in WWE.

    Enter the Big Show. Big Show apparently went to the Shawn Michaels school of financial management, because he was desperately broke and needed this job, which the Authority used to get him to do stuff like knock people out for fun in the fall of 2013. The Authority fired Big Show but thanks to John Laurinaitis and the Big Show’s ever changing allegiances, Big Show had an iron clad contract so he sued the WWE for firing him. Which begs the question, why did he do all those shitty things for the Authority when he knew he had the contract? I suppose Big Show just likes being a dick.

    By far the most egregious of this storyline was how it pertained to Daniel Bryan. First of all, we were gifted an all time bad finish to a PPV at Battleground 2013. Secondly, WWE decided that it wasn’t Daniel Bryan that’s over, it’s the Yes Chant that was over. If anybody tries to tell you that, point them to this storyline and this match. See, WWE tried to push the Yes Chants onto Big Show in one of the most transparent attempts to get someone else over instead of Bryan. So we get this match, and if WWE had their way Orton’s only two feuds leading to Wrestlemania would have been Cena and Batista. Orton, Cena, Big Show and Batista – what a fresh title scene.

    Anyway, onto the match. The match starts with Orton running away from Orton, and Orton manages to mess up getting out of the ring. The crowd is dead for a minute until the ten guys still awake in the crowd realise that they can chant for Daniel Bryan instead. This match is maybe the most boring match we’ve seen so far, and for a series centred around Randy Orton, that’s a fucking accomplishment. It’s difficult to put into words how dead the crowd is for this match. The most hilarious spot of the whole match is when Big Show climbs to the top rope. The crowd starts to get sort of excited that something interesting might happen. Instead, Orton cuts him off and goes for the rope assisted DDT. Except Big Show slips and falls off the top rope, so Orton has to hit just a regular DDT instead. To massive boos.

    The ref bump is an all time bad ref bump too. WWE have gotten better for ref bumps since the attitude era, but this one is so dumb. Big Show throws Orton into the ropes from the outside, and somehow that ends up hurting Charles Robinson’s leg. I do not understand it at all. Anyway, Big Show hits a knockout punch and stalls going for the cover until the Authority’s music hits. See, before the match they assured that nobody would “physically” interfere in the match. Hah, WWE are so clever. Orton springs up, hits an RKO and then a punt in one of the worst matches of 2013. How can two guys have such a surprisingly good match at Extreme Rules early in the year, but be so awful here?


    *

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  3. #183
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    Your fav feud is Orton vs. Rollins?
    "You only need to hang mean bastards, but mean bastards you need to hang."


  4. #184
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfs Rain View Post
    Your fav feud is Orton vs. Rollins?
    Haha no, the second greatest RKO and the favourite feud are separate entries!

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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    My favourite part of the Big Show is owned by the Authority is when Stephanie got her comeuppance for mocking his tears.........no wait that never happens. Ok my actual favourite part is when Tommy and Dook thought that this was all just a clever ruse for Wrestlemania XXX build and they were behind Bryan 100%.

    Horrible match, horrible angle, totally tone deaf booking. I think this whole angle broke Big Show for me, he'd had a really good 2012 and started the year off well with Del Rio, but it all became one turn too many and being treated like a joke while being pushed into the spotlight again made him someone I didn't even want to watch anymore.

  6. #186
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    My favourite part of the Big Show is owned by the Authority is when Stephanie got her comeuppance for mocking his tears.........no wait that never happens. Ok my actual favourite part is when Tommy and Dook thought that this was all just a clever ruse for Wrestlemania XXX build and they were behind Bryan 100%.

    Horrible match, horrible angle, totally tone deaf booking. I think this whole angle broke Big Show for me, he'd had a really good 2012 and started the year off well with Del Rio, but it all became one turn too many and being treated like a joke while being pushed into the spotlight again made him someone I didn't even want to watch anymore.
    Yeah this was the end for Big Show for me too. Like you said he was good in 2012 and early 2013 but this killed my interest in him.

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  7. #187

    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    For someone who is supposed to be one of the largest and most dangerous monsters in wrestling history, The Big Show sure has been made to look like a giant bitch often in the WWE.

  8. #188
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    For someone who is supposed to be one of the largest and most dangerous monsters in wrestling history, The Big Show sure has been made to look like a giant bitch often in the WWE.
    WWE can't book giants.

    I think Big Show also suffers because he's actually a good actor (at least by wrestling standards) and can cry on cue. So when WWE want a story where we can feel sorry for someone, Big Show is the guy, and that has turned him into a bitch at times.

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  9. #189

    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    WWE can't book giants.

    I think Big Show also suffers because he's actually a good actor (at least by wrestling standards) and can cry on cue. So when WWE want a story where we can feel sorry for someone, Big Show is the guy, and that has turned him into a bitch at times.
    I don't know if I buy into the idea that the WWE are unable to book giants. There's been periods where they've booked Big Show beautifully. It's just that they always revert back to the shit booking not long afterward.

    Show's ability to cry on cue and being a good actor by wrestler's standards is a solid theory though.

  10. #190
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    WWE can't book giants.

    I think Big Show also suffers because he's actually a good actor (at least by wrestling standards) and can cry on cue. So when WWE want a story where we can feel sorry for someone, Big Show is the guy, and that has turned him into a bitch at times.

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    100%. I remember reading someone once say with Mark Henry "just because he can do comedy, doesn't mean he should". It's the same with Show. They're super lucky that they have someone with his talent for a number of areas of performing, but to have gotten the best out of him you probably should use them all. He's massive and scary and surprisingly good in the ring. That's good enough.

  11. #191
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton



    Day 29:

    Intercontinental Championship – Hardcore Match – Randy Orton (c) vs. Cactus Jack – Backlash 2004


    I think it would be impossible to do a Randy Orton retrospective without this match.

    Long time readers and those that followed my 100 Greatest WWE Matches list might recall my thoughts on this match and feud. This is my all time favourite WWE feud. Raw in 2004 is one of my favourite time periods for any brand thanks in large part to this nearly year long rivalry, particularly the stretch from December to April. It’s a feud with a clear reason, and purpose. The reason is that Randy Orton is the Legend Killer, and a disrespectful piece of shit, and the purpose is to make Randy Orton a star. Long before Foley had made a bit of a mockery of his retirement in 2000 came this feud. Every piece of this feud was fantastic and made Raw the show to watch in 2004. It centred around Orton getting the best of Foley at each and every point. There is very rarely a point in the feud where Foley gets the upper hand. Even when teaming with the Rock at Wrestlemania, Orton still managed to find a way to come out on top.

    For Foley’s part of the feud, it’s all about confidence. He’s not Cactus Jack anymore, he’s the peacefully retired Mick Foley who is being pushed about, disrespected, and bullied by some punk kid. During an episode of Raw in late December 2003, we see Foley’s confidence is rocked and he doesn’t even go to the ring for his scheduled match with Randy Orton because he isn’t Mick Foley the Hardcore Legend anymore and he knows it. At Wrestlemania, he doesn’t get the job done because he’s lost his edge. The whole feud is about Orton poking the beast constantly, all the while feeling invincible because he is ahead of Foley at every point. That is, until Foley realises that he has to become Cactus Jack, the Hardcore Legend, in order to teach Orton a lesson. I even like that Orton wasn’t forced into this match, he accepted the challenge from Foley because he genuinely felt like he was superior.

    The promo work from both men were amazing, but in particular Foley who was at the top of his game in that regard, including a promo that I will always find an excuse to post:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiZuJSfVTR4

    This man is a genius. Absolutely the best promo guy in WWE history by some distance, but I also love Orton’s reaction because it’s the first part of this rivalry where he realises how fucked he truly is.

    Onto the match, and it’s pretty good, I guess.

    The story of this match is that Orton is trying to do what’s worked for him through this whole feud: hit and run, and being cowardly. Unfortunately that doesn’t work out so well for Orton as he gets very little in the opening parts of the match. Everything Orton does early is very desperate, like he's the final girl in a horror film.

    Much like the Triple H match from the Royal Rumble, Orton proves that he is willing and capable to take the punishment in this match. It may seem like an odd point to make, but it helps that Orton is a good looking guy, and him getting massacred in the way he does really did a lot to gain the respect of the fans. Every awful thing imaginable that could happen to Orton and his features happened, and that made the match so satisfying.

    The turning point of the match for Orton is when Foley threatens to burn him down. I’ve never been super keen on this spot, since I don’t like teasing stuff that you can’t/won’t deliver on (looking at you, Ambrose vs Lesnar). But even that minor complaint is made greater by the story of the match. Orton realises that this isn’t just a guy out for your blood and to mangle you, he’s the guy that wants to literally set you on fire because you’re such a prick. It’s at that moment where Orton realises he needs to be less Laurie Strode, and more Ellen Ripley.

    The second half of the match is far more even and Orton starts to get back into the match. He’s manning up, taking his punishment and dishing it out just as much. Foley goes for pins in the second half of the match, and Orton could take his loss and leave, but he keeps kicking out. Orton is absolutely amazing here. Right up there with the best performances of his career. His selling, cowardice, willingness to take unimaginable bumps and punishment, his aggression down the stretch. It’s possibly the most complete performance of his whole career, and he proves that he can be as tough as anybody else if he’s put in that situation.

    The big spot of the match is the thumbtacks spot which made everyone realise that Orton was a guy to be taken seriously. I may be mistaken but I think he’s only the second guy to ever take the thumbtacks spot in WWE after Mick Foley himself. After taking the thumbtacks, Orton and Foley brawl to the back, presumably to help poor Randy with the tacks in his back. Just as the crowd threatens to get restless by them disappearing, the two appear back from the back and Foley launches Orton off the stage to a huge pop. But I think one of my favourite spots is when the barbed wire board is set up in the corner. Orton goes for an Irish Whip to Foley to send him into the board, Foley reverses and the crowd *gasps* in anticipation, until Orton reverses that again at the very last second. I have always loved that spot.

    This match and feud made Orton’s career, and proves that Foley is the master at putting over a young talent. But don’t let anyone think that this is all thanks to the genius of Mick Foley. Orton more than earns his credit for everything that happened here. A superb performance from both and a great end to an amazing rivalry.


    ****1/2


    Tomorrow, we close out the 30 Days Of series as the man of destiny makes history. Plus I reveal what I consider to be the greatest RKO of all time. And speaking of, here is number 2:





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  12. #192

    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    Ugh. Another RKO out of nowhere that makes zero sense. It looks awesome the first time you see it and then you watch it again and you realize that Orton didn't go any closer to the corner meaning had Orton remained on the mat, Bourne would have hit Air Bourne to the mat.

  13. #193
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    You're so spot on about that Irish whip into the board spot Shock. Legit great crowd that night. I remember when that match first happened and after Randy didn't take any barbwire bumps I thought for sure there was no chance he'd take the tacks. Which made both the spot and the image all the more satisfying!

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  14. #194
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Ugh. Another RKO out of nowhere that makes zero sense. It looks awesome the first time you see it and then you watch it again and you realize that Orton didn't go any closer to the corner meaning had Orton remained on the mat, Bourne would have hit Air Bourne to the mat.
    Haha, that's why it's only number 2 greatest RKO ever. THough Evan would have hit Orton with a shooting star headbutt.

    I love it because it's probably the most ambitious RKO ever attempted.





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  15. #195
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    The Orton/Christian series in 2011 was just masterpiece after masterpiece. Such a great ride.

    And ahh 2013 Big Show



    Painful stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    A very very close 2nd.

    I think those are comfortably his two best and then it's a long way to find number 3.

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    The match with Taker at Mania 21?

    Anyway that Foley/Orton match was ridiculously good and defo one of Orton's best (if his the best match of his career as you've mentioned earlier) The whole feud with Foley was a real coming out party for him. Shame they ruined it later in the year with that awful face run and Triple H burial.


  16. #196
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    I would have Summerslam 2011 as my 3rd favourite match. I'm sure I love an elimination chamber he's in more than that match, but he's one of six men who would make that work.

    The Foley match is fantastic and stands the test of time of being one of my all time favourites 15 years later. Unless I'm forgetting something obvious it's my favourite Foley match too.

    Thank god you didn't have the Bourne RKO as the best RKO. We all know what the true #1 is.

  17. #197
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    That’s my third favourite Foley match after the Rumble 2000 Streetfight & Mind Games. I’m with you on Foley being the best promo by a distance too. And the most generous, giving guy as a worker to get others over. He’ll always be one of my all time favourites.

    I wasn’t sure what to expect from that Backlash match at the time, given it would be Foleys first singles match in 4 years and I didn’t really see Orton at the time as a guy that would’ve taken to a Streetfight. The whip reversal spot was brilliant too - I’d forgotten about it until you mentioned it - and obviously Orton taking the tacks was the most shocking thing about the match to me. It’s one of the first matches that comes to mind any time I think of Orton.

  18. #198

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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    We may have to acknowledge that with the match vs. Foley, the great No Holds Barred match vs. Christian and the Hell in a Cell vs. Hardy to name a few that Orton is one of the better hardcore guys in WWE.

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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton



    Day 30:

    World Heavyweight Championship: Chris Benoit (c) vs. Randy Orton – Summerslam 2004


    There wasn’t really a story going into this match because Orton only won the number one contendership a couple of weeks before. It was very simple: Orton is number one contender, and wants the title; and Benoit wants to keep it.

    Simple is how I’d describe a lot of this, but not in a bad way. It’s a simple story to the match. But in a world where JBL is getting chokeslammed through a paper limosine roof, Matt Hardy and Kane are fighting for the right to marry Lita, and Triple H is beating up someone with special needs, I think this comes across as a refreshing change of pace. No bullshit, just a straight wrestling match with a clean finish. I appreciate the effort to make Orton look like Benoit’s equal at each stage of the match, whether that was in the mat wrestling in the early going, or the finishing stretch. They do quite a few mirror spots like Orton pulling out the sharpshooter on Benoit himself, and I liked how JR mentioned that Orton was pulling out stuff we’ve never seen before.

    This match is quite slow to start with but I don’t mind it too much. It’s not the most exciting stuff, but I like that it didn’t seem like wasted motion. They were fighting for leverage and momentum, and looking for openings. I also think they did the little things right to make every move feel like a struggle, and I always like when guys add nasty little touches to their moves as Orton was doing here. I think you can see hints of Orton’s weaknesses as a wrestler like his reliance on chinlocks when he didn’t know what else to do, but generally it wasn’t enough to take away from the match. The match picks up in the middle, and even has some nasty spots. The most noticeable of which is Benoit’s failed suicide dive where he basically goes head first into the barricade. Ouch.

    It’s a sign of a good match when the main negative I had is the crowd. Summerslam 2004 is a weird show because of the Toronto crowd and they were more interested in making Earl Hebner the biggest heel in the match rather than getting into the match. They did get into this match in the end thanks to the hard work of both men, but this crowd is very obnoxious.

    I think the abrupt finish works perfectly for this match. The whole concept of the match was Orton doing what nobody else could do in 2004, and that was beat Chris Benoit decisively. And he does it after a single RKO, despite Benoit surviving Sweet Chin Music, the Pedigree, the Chokeslam from Kane, among others through his title reign. That just makes Orton look great, I think.

    Overall I think this is a very good match that just lacks a little something to push it into great territory. I prefer their match the next night on Raw, but obviously for Orton’s career this is far more significant as he becomes the youngest World champion in WWE history. In a cool ending to the show, Benoit tells Orton to “be a man” and congratulates the man who finally beat the champion who had defeated everybody else on Raw. Orton obliges and the two shake hands.


    ***3/4


    Later tonight, we’ll see one more Orton match to close the series, plus I will reveal my plan for the next series.

    And now, the number one RKO ever, and I think this probably won’t come as a surprise since it hasn’t popped up (heh) yet.






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  20. #200
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    Re: 30 Days of: Randy Orton

    Best ever RKO for sure.

    But in a world where JBL is getting chokeslammed through a paper limosine roof, Matt Hardy and Kane are fighting for the right to marry Lita, and Triple H is beating up someone with special needs
    Man the RA era really was a weird time for WWE wasn't it I dont remember the actual match much but I remember the story around it (and subsequent story with Triple H) being pretty meh. Shame really because Orton was having an amazing year, right up until he won the title.


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