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Thread: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

  1. #161
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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    More in depth thoughts on last night's show.

    Matt Riddle vs Kassius Ohno: SQUASH
    Um, not what I expected but it was a nice finish.

    WWE NXT Women's Title Best Two Out Of Three Falls Match - Shayna Baszler (c) vs. Kairi Sane:
    What a match. Almost sprint like but with 3 falls, I loved it. Baszler and the 4HW getting loads of boos for the interference. Baszler’s neck attacks at the beginning was a treat. Sadly they didn’t follow up on that in the next falls but the falls were still good. I can see people not liking the interference but that’s the point. You’re supposed to hate the interference. A heel gets hate. Good job IMO. ***3/4

    Aleister Black vs. Johnny Gargano:
    Good match on paper and that’s what we got. This was really good. Gargano had his best match in a good long while. Going all the way back to January in the Almas match. Black’s striking was fantastic, Gargano’s wrestling as a heel is much improved over him wrestling as a face. Some bits had me worried such as the drama bits, they are bit comical, and the selling was meh (being generous here), but this was a very good match overall. ***1/4

    WWE NXT Title Match - Tommaso Ciampa (c) vs. Velveteen Dream:
    I did not give two damns about this match, I was not invested and they did a pretty poor job of getting me invested for most of the match. It was really dull but by got me by the end with them going bat shit crazy (lol) and taking some nasty bumps. Again, Ciampa’s selling was bad, in particular the concrete spot. Credit to Dream, he looked like a star by the end. ***

    War Games Match - Pete Dunne, Ricochet & War Raiders (Hanson & Rowe) vs. The Undisputed ERA (Adam Cole, Bobby Fish, Kyle O'Reilly & Roderick Strong):
    Oh wow. This is the definition of a match of two halves IMO. Everything from the entrances to the double submission spot w/ Dunne, KOR and Strong was tremendous. Everything was well paced, the big spots were compelling and well done. BUT the match kept going on and going on and going on and I lost interest in the match. It just became boring to me and that stare off spot. I imagine on another day I would’ve liked it but man, WTF was that. KOR was fantastic in this match, he was the star throughout, even when the match went past it’s peak. ***1/4


    7/10 Show

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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    I asked Mauro and apparently War Games still hasn't officially started yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakstang
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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    Baszler vs. Sane – Loved this match, I think it might be my favourite of their matches together. Just a balls to the wall sprint with a 2 out of 3 falls twist. Loads of fun ***1/2

    Gargano vs Black – I thought this was fun and fine but fuck me did they not want to sell a single move in this match at times. Black takes a spike rana? Better get up so I can hit Johnny with a knee strike. Johnny as a heel is whatever but I agree with Ed about the Gargano talking through the match I can’t remember the last time WWE did something like that where it didn’t feel like the cheesiest shit ever – oh wait, yes I can. It’s Michaels vs Flair from Wrestlemania. Every time since then I think it has sucked ass. It’s the exact same stuff I loved to criticise HHH and Michaels about in the past and I’ll do it for Gargano and Black too. Despite that, this isn’t the reason I didn’t care for this. I didn’t care for this because it is fundamentally different to what I want to see from a wrestling match. It’s exciting, but it’s easy to have an exciting match if you are completely ignoring one part of wrestling, and that is transitions. I never once felt like any move in this match was earned. It was the ultimate show of your move-my move.This was a good spotfest but I don’t think it was much more than that..***1/4

    Dream vs. Ciampa – Opening sections of this match were superb. Dream is phenomenal – his matches feel different and interesting because you know you’re going to get something unique. And I thought Ciampa’s control sections were very good too. The use of the ring post figure four and Ciampa tapping out was great because it led to the figure four in the ring. What would otherwise be a pretty tame submission moment all of a sudden became something interesting. Very very clever. This was absolutely superb and I loved almost every minute of it. The moment with the concrete was incredibly annoying however and was the only real negative of the match because it was treated as if it never happened. Despite that, I definitely think it makes my top 10 WWE matches for the year. ****1/4

    I was wondering what Ciampa was going to do to make me love him, or if Ed was being sarcastic. And then it happened. 5 stars.

    War Games – Some say this match is still going on right now. Better than last year’s effort but could have done with some serious trimming – the match beyond was by far the worst part of the match. It was fine though, but I’ll admit I wasn’t particularly interested or into it. ***





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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    What's the problem with the concrete? Ciampa took that Death Valley Driver on the folded up mat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakstang
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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    I thought it was smack bang in the middle of the 2018 Takeovers, better than Brooklyn and Chicago, but not as good as Philly and NOLA.

    I loved the first half of the wargames match, I think the 4 on 4 format was better than last years and I appreciated some slower moments in the match on a night of go go go wrestling, but the 'match beyond' really dragged and easily went about 10 minutes too long which could of been given to something else on the show like a proper Riddle/Ohno match or maybe give Kairi and Shayna more time. I mean last years was a long match, but this was 10 minutes longer than that one and it had less wrestlers in it. What we've learned from these two matches are that it will not end until all the tables have broken and it will not end until someone has dived off the top of the cage so I just found myself being disinterested in the nearfalls until those events had happened. Era blocking one half of the ring while Dunne was in a submission was pretty damn cool though I thought.

    I like that they've set up Ricochet/Dunne and established they've got unfinished business with each other. I guess Black Vs Ciampa is the next obvious direction for the NXT title with Black being the #1 babyface on the show and has put Johnny in the rearview mirror. I really don't know what you do with Johnny next.

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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Marketh View Post
    What's the problem with the concrete? Ciampa took that Death Valley Driver on the folded up mat.
    Wow, shows how much I was paying attention then

    That's a bit more forgivable.





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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    so this was the weakest Takeover show ever right? for all the talk before hand of them only wanting 4 matches so they can go long, they really should have just given Riddle and Ohno a proper match and cut atleast five minutes off each other mens matches

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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    My main issue with the show is the fact that the three main matches went on for too long. You take out that couple of minutes for Riddle/Ohno and you had 4 matches in a 2 hour 45 minute or so show, on average that's over 40 minutes per segment...and that is what hurts it overall.
    I have a plan so cunning......

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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    I had no problem with the length of Ciampa/Dream. It got a bit nearfall-heavy, but each nearfall was also really well done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakstang
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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    I think it could have done without some bloat in the middle, could have done with Ciampa bothering to sell the leg injury, and could have done with Ciampa not blowing off a DVD on the floor followed by Dream's finish and popping back up immediately after he splattered himself on the floor. I thought it was MOTN but that was a testament to Dream's progress as a worker.

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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Baszler vs. Sane – Loved this match, I think it might be my favourite of their matches together. Just a balls to the wall sprint with a 2 out of 3 falls twist. Loads of fun ***1/2

    Gargano vs Black – I thought this was fun and fine but fuck me did they not want to sell a single move in this match at times. Black takes a spike rana? Better get up so I can hit Johnny with a knee strike. Johnny as a heel is whatever but I agree with Ed about the Gargano talking through the match I can’t remember the last time WWE did something like that where it didn’t feel like the cheesiest shit ever – oh wait, yes I can. It’s Michaels vs Flair from Wrestlemania. Every time since then I think it has sucked ass. It’s the exact same stuff I loved to criticise HHH and Michaels about in the past and I’ll do it for Gargano and Black too. Despite that, this isn’t the reason I didn’t care for this. I didn’t care for this because it is fundamentally different to what I want to see from a wrestling match. It’s exciting, but it’s easy to have an exciting match if you are completely ignoring one part of wrestling, and that is transitions. I never once felt like any move in this match was earned. It was the ultimate show of your move-my move.This was a good spotfest but I don’t think it was much more than that..***1/4

    Dream vs. Ciampa – Opening sections of this match were superb. Dream is phenomenal – his matches feel different and interesting because you know you’re going to get something unique. And I thought Ciampa’s control sections were very good too. The use of the ring post figure four and Ciampa tapping out was great because it led to the figure four in the ring. What would otherwise be a pretty tame submission moment all of a sudden became something interesting. Very very clever. This was absolutely superb and I loved almost every minute of it. The moment with the concrete was incredibly annoying however and was the only real negative of the match because it was treated as if it never happened. Despite that, I definitely think it makes my top 10 WWE matches for the year. ****1/4

    I was wondering what Ciampa was going to do to make me love him, or if Ed was being sarcastic. And then it happened. 5 stars.

    War Games – Some say this match is still going on right now. Better than last year’s effort but could have done with some serious trimming – the match beyond was by far the worst part of the match. It was fine though, but I’ll admit I wasn’t particularly interested or into it. ***
    I'm pretty much down with everything you said. I think your ratings are definitely on point and though I really don't hate an overly fast paced spot fest too much I do see the glaring issue with it and it's definitely fair to deduct some points from it for that.

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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    I guess I’m the only one who thought this was a killer show from top to bottom. I enjoyed every single match greatly. The War Games match felt much of the same from last year but I liked that match a lot too and I liked this one. The agression never felt like it left for me.

    Fantastic show.
    -------
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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    I rewatched this on the Network and it was still just as awesome as it was seeing it in person. This was the best wrestling show I have ever experienced live. Every match delivered like I expected they would.

    https://instagram.com/p/BqVWiNCAkp7-...D5LSH0q5EbJM0/

    That’s my shot of Ricochet going off the war games structure.


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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    My main issue with the show is the fact that the three main matches went on for too long. You take out that couple of minutes for Riddle/Ohno and you had 4 matches in a 2 hour 45 minute or so show, on average that's over 40 minutes per segment...and that is what hurts it overall.
    I'd argue that only the ME went too long. Gargano/Black only went around 25 - 30 mins including entrances and such (about 18 mins of actual matchtime) while Dream/Ciampa went around 30 mins with everything (Around 20 mins of actual match time). I'm pretty sure the ME went over an hour with everything included which is crazy (the actual match was just short of 50 mins). They really could have shaved at least 10 (if not 15) mins from the main event and it would have been just as good.

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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee Nicky View Post
    I guess I’m the only one who thought this was a killer show from top to bottom. I enjoyed every single match greatly. The War Games match felt much of the same from last year but I liked that match a lot too and I liked this one. The agression never felt like it left for me.

    Fantastic show.
    Nope.. I also thought it was an absolute home run. My only actual complaint for the whole event was the tower of doom spot and Ricochet's jump off the cage. Those spots make it literally impossible to suspend your disbelief. But other than that I thought it was all gravy.

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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee Nicky View Post
    I guess I’m the only one who thought this was a killer show from top to bottom. I enjoyed every single match greatly. The War Games match felt much of the same from last year but I liked that match a lot too and I liked this one. The agression never felt like it left for me.

    Fantastic show.
    Nope! 100% agree, buddy.

    only small minor complaint for me was the squash match and that's only because I don't feel a "squash" ever belongs on a PPv card but that's my preference.

    Aside from that- Outstanding! Loved it.
    Prepare for the.. BACKLASH!




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    Re: NXT Takeover: War Games II - November 17, 2018 - Card & Discussion

    Wowee. What a show. I don't think there's anything bad that can be said about this show.

    Matt Riddle vs Kassius Ohno
    While officially a match, this wasn't really a match. What a way to make a statement, however I will say that they do need to give Kassius Ohno some wins sooner or later otherwise beating him isn't going to mean anything. I kind of hope that he gets called up to the main roster so that he can have a fresh start because he's being totally wasted in NXT right now. He's literally just losing every match, whereas before he was getting wins week to week and then putting over a new big talent. I didn't mind that but I don't remember the last time he won. I'd have prefered if they had brought him in to partner with The Bar as their 3rd member instead of Big show, since he has history with Cesaro of course.
    Anyway, Matt Riddle is someone I like. His super laid back chilled dude who explodes and KO's people in his matches is fun to watch. I'#m looking forward to seeing what they do with him.

    Shayna Baszler vs Kairi Sane
    Baszler should have won and I'm glad she did. I've heard that Kairi could go up to the main roster but not sure she's ready for that. We've seen the formation of the 4 horsewomen with Duke and Shafir making their physical debuts. The first step to seeing the 4 horsewomen of MMA vs the 4 horsewomen of Wrestling no doubt. I think we'll see that match at Survivor Series next year and/or at Wrestlemania 36.
    This was a decent match, probably the weakest on the card however (minus the opening bout) since I do feel that it was a bit shorter than it needed to be given that their was what I presume to be their blow-off match. Probably because they wanted to give as much time as possible to the main event.
    Be interesting to see who goes up against Baszler next.

    What a trio of matches we had then. I'm going to struggle for words.

    Aleister Black vs Johnny Gargano
    Holy moley. What a contest this was. Storytelling, wrestling, hard hitting strikes, character work, in-ring psychology. This match had it all. This will be up there with the best matches you'll see all year when it comes down to it. I don't think I need to say any more about this other than; watch it. And if you have already, then watch it again.
    I think Black wining made sense, Not sure what the next step is for these two. I could see Black on the main roster sooner rather than later. Gargano? Who knows. I think he has plenty of unfinished business in NXT though.

    Tomasso Ciampa vs Velveteen Dream
    Another absolutely brilliant match here from two guys who have had stellar years. Dream's entrance was amazing. Doing 'Hollywood'Hulk Hogan was brilliant and I enjoyed that he was imitating other wrestlers, such as doing Hogan's moves, doing the HBK flying forearm and kip up, Ric Flair's figure 4.
    Ciampa is one of the best heels in the business and he proved that again here.
    Gargano winning was the right decision and they had a classic. Everyone wants Dream to move up to main, I think he's likely to go up soon.

    War Games match
    What a main event. Brutal, brawling, passionate contest. All 8 guys got to absolutely shine here and let's give a huge pat on the back to Ricochet and Adam Cole for going the distance and wrestling the whole near 50 minutes of this.
    Not much more I can say again here. If you've seen it, you'll know what I'm talking about. If you haven't, please do yourself a favour and watch.

    Amazing show from top to bottom. A must watch show and probably WWE's best ppv this year. Definitely a strong contender at the very least.

    God bless NXT.

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