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Thread: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

  1. #21

    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    For Rick Rude, if you're going by the influence his gimmick had for the future, then I'd argue why not a guy like Goldust? He's someone I would say deserves a spot more than Rude - and I doubt he's going to be popping up in this list.
    To be fair, Goldust wasn't the first to work either a gay character or a character that used sexuality to play mind games in the WWE. Adrian Adonis did it when he was Adorable, the Beverly Brothers did it to some extent, The Genius unofficially did it, not to mention going back even further with Gorgeous George or other companies like with Adrian Street.

    I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with Rude being included though.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    I'd actually definitely say Goldust is worthy of a top 50 spot. And he did get votes. Whether or not he cracked the top 50, we'll just have to wait and see..

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Jim summed up a lot more of the Bulldog points I wanted to. Tag team influence, big draw over here that no British wrestler has come close to.

    For Rick Rude, if you're going by the influence his gimmick had for the future, then I'd argue why not a guy like Goldust? He's someone I would say deserves a spot more than Rude - and I doubt he's going to be popping up in this list.
    I would not have been against someone putting down Goldust. Feels more worthy to me than DBS.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Dammit Jim you're making me want to find time to watch some Davey matches now.

  5. #25
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Dammit Jim you're making me want to find time to watch some Davey matches now.
    I nearly had Davey Boy on my list and that Match he had with Owen Hart on Raw pure perfection. Start there and go back I say. I wanna see more of Davey's run in Tags more so outside of the WWE in Japan.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    #46
    BOBBY HEENAN

    28 points
    - 19 points HoHo, 9 points Wang Chung

    Spoiler:


    #43 (TIED)
    LITA

    33 points
    - 10 points JT Grizzle, 9 points HoHo, 5 points sebsy, 4 points OMB, 4 points The Golden Roo's, 1 point Jimmy King

    Spoiler:



    #43 (TIED)
    THE HARDY BOYZ

    33 points
    - 12 points Deco90, 11 points JT Grizzle, 6 points Ed, 4 points RED

    Spoiler:



    #43 (TIED)
    RAZOR RAMON

    33 points
    - 16 points Booty, 10 points Sicario, 5 points HoHo, 1 point Recall, 1 point Wang Chung

    Spoiler:



    I feel as though Bobby Heenan is interesting choice as far Greatest Superstars go, but he's a world class manager and entertainer nonetheless. The Monday Night Wars wouldn't be the same without him. He may also be one of the greatest color commentators of all time.

    It's quite fitting that Team Extreme share their spot on this list. You often think of Lita and The Hardy Boyz going hand in hand. Even without Team Extreme Lita was one of the early trend-setters of the woman's division and brought a unique presentation to the WWF when it was sourly lacking in diversity. The Hardy Boyz feel a bit low, but had this been the greatest Tag Teams of the WWE, they would certainly place much higher. This won't be the last time you see them, though. These boyz weren't just a tag team.

    You know I had to represent my boy. If this included WCW work I think Scott Hall would have been a lot higher on my list as well other people's. You probably wouldn't have had an Attitude Era cool heels and anti-heroes without the early blending of good guy and bad guy that was Scott Hall's Razor Ramon (and certainly Diesel as well for that matter). Say hello to the bad guy.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    The Hardys are interesting because they're one of the few tag teams that you could make a strong argument for. Only reason I didn't vote for them was Jeff had a career worth the vote alone.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    All hail The Brain !

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    I was for Vince getting votes but not at all tempted to vote vote for Heenan. I know we already went over the fact he had more matches than McMahon and all that but his in ring exploits are not as well documented as McMahon's, plus McMahon is like, what, a two time world champion? At least? Only Heenan match I can recall off the top of my head is a weasel suit match against Ultimate Warrior.

    Lita I think was worthy of some votes but as I already stated, I think Charlotte has already surpassed her in every conceivable way. No big complaints about her ending up on the low end of the list though I guess.

    Obviously can't dispute the inclusion of The Hardy Boyz. I voted for Jeff so I didn't also vote for the team, but I think it's fair that Jeff gets recognition both for his singles career and tag team career.

    Razor is sort of like Rude in that his tenure wasn't too long but he is an iconic character of the 90s, highly charismatic and popular, and has a couple of very memorable matches in his back pocket. I think he got a good spot for himself on this list.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    To be fair, Goldust wasn't the first to work either a gay character or a character that used sexuality to play mind games in the WWE. Adrian Adonis did it when he was Adorable, the Beverly Brothers did it to some extent, The Genius unofficially did it, not to mention going back even further with Gorgeous George or other companies like with Adrian Street.

    I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with Rude being included though.
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  11. #31
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    I was the one who threw out Bobby's name originally in this project and it turned into a conversation about how this is more for wrestlers and not so much the non-wrestling side of being in the business. Can't argue with the positive points for him, best ever manager, best ever colour commentator, best ever funny man.

    I'm not sure whether I would call the Hardys the best ever tag team in WWE history with total confidence, I would of years ago but Usos and New Day are pushing them really hard now. At worse they are very much in the conversation. They are however superstars of the business who achieved almost everything there is to do in the business and have remained popular over a 20+ year career. There are very few babyfaces who were more adored than Jeff Hardy and he has his place in history as probably the biggest daredevil/holy shit spot guy to work for WWE. When you add their singles careers and their tag legacy together, I think that's worthy of a place in my top 25 and the countdown's top 50.

    Once she wasn't with the Hardys anymore, I didn't care much for Lita. I'm kinda hoping Trish does show up now because Lita as the top woman I wouldn't agree with. She is clearly an influence though when you see interviews with today's women.

    Razor is a tough one to place because his biggests contributions to the business was in leaving WWF with Nash, but Razor is always an act I enjoy watching when I turn on any 90s WWF and one of the guys I do think of first when I think about the IC title. It takes two to tango and he's just as important in making ladder matches a thing as Shawn was.

  12. #32
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    She is clearly an influence though when you see interviews with today's women.
    This is a great point I didn't consider. You don't hear women say they were motivated by Trish, Chyna, Sable etc. when they talk about who made them wanna wrestle, it's Lita and the Japanese girls 99% of the time.


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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Razor was a really late cut from my list. One of those "if we could submit 26/27/28 names" things. Sicario summed it up really well: I view Hall's work in WWE as sort of an appetizer for the Attitude Era.

    I wonder how people would view the careers of Lita/Trish if WWE valued women's wrestling back then the same way it does now. The division was still highly sexualized, and Trish and Lita (Trish to a greater extent) were caught up in/victims of that a bit too much, to the point that it has become a part of WWE and the division that has not aged well at all over time (same with some of The Rock's promos on Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley). Honestly not sure if it has an effect on their legacies. Either way, Lita deserves to be here. She was the first female who I remember where I could apply the "female cruiserweight" label.
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  14. #34
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Heenan is an interesting choice. I didn't include him because I disagree with mangers being in his list but glad others voted for him.

    Lita same as Charlotte. Very influential when it comes to future women wrestlers so she has that.

    Hardy Boys have the ladder/TLC matches to hang their hats on. Again, I didn't do tag teams but they are good options.

    Like Rick Rude, Razor's best and most influential stuff was in WCW. The ladder match is a famous match but that's a short WWE career kept me from voting for him.
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    #41 (TIE)
    AJ STYLES

    35 points
    – 11 points Sicario, 10 points sebsy, 8 points Baldrick, 3 points RED, 3 points Booty

    Spoiler:



    #41 (TIE)
    RICKY STEAMBOAT

    35 points
    – 12 points Mitch, 9 points OMB, 8 points Recall, 6 points JT Grizzle

    Spoiler:



    #40
    OWEN HART

    37 points
    – 17 points HoHo, 14 points Recall, 3 points The EC, 2 points Willis, 1 point Zero

    Spoiler:



    These next entries prove that you don't have to have the longest tenure in WWE to be highly touted. And to be fair, many of the greatest had careers of 10 years of less in WWE. Nonetheless...

    Styles is still considered one of the pound for pound greats in the WWE, and in the world right now, despite a lackluster year. He's only been in the WWE for around three years but has had the main event scene on lock pretty much since his arrival and is in the midst of a nearly year long title reign. Though, he doesn't really have that WrestleMania classic in his back pocket you expect from the greats, he has many memorable bouts like his Rumble debut, the series of bouts he had with Cena, and the TLC match against Ambrose.

    Ricky Steamboat is yet another guy who is best remembered for his work in NWA/WCW, which is why I did not vote for him, but once again he falls in the category of an iconic character and had enough good matches in WWE to warrant a spot on the list. I have no qualms with him in this spot.

    Owen Hart, I'm a little surprised that he didn't get votes from more people, but since HoHo and Recall gave him a lot of love he ended up in a good spot. He's obviously one of the biggest "what ifs" in WWE and wrestling history because there is every reason to believe he could have went down as one of the greatest by the end of it all, but alas we'll never know. He is, to me, someone who immediately comes to mind when talking about 90s wrestling, and he was a saving grace in a pretty poor period of WWE history. Happy to see "The King of Harts" made the cut.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Styles and Steamboat are both guys I considered despite their short runs. I'd liken AJ to Brock's first run where he was so good and a top star on a brand that he could justify a placement.

    Steamboat has a lot of people beat for pure influence alone. How many people have come along and said that Steamboat Vs Savage inspired them? It's a long list. Plus it was unlike any other match in WWE at the time and is regarded both by smarks and in WWE canon as one of the greatest matches ever. Plus he's got a whole bunch of fun stuff like his feud with Roberts.

    I think Owen is the right place on this. Wouldn't like to see him any further up the list but top 50 is fair.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Glad to see Owen getting some love. I so wanted to put him on my list but couldn't find someone to take off for him to be on there.
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  18. #38

    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    I find it curious that some were so against Bulldog being in the list, but then additional people voted to add in Ricky Steamboat. They both had very similar histories with the IC Title with iconic victories, forgettable reigns, that were then ended by a heel who had a much more memorable reign. Quality wise, they both had likely the same amount of great matches in the WWE. The one area in which they differ is that Bulldog was a bigger deal for a longer amount of time. If you want to take full careers into consideration, than yeah, Steamboat clearly was the bigger superstar, but just WWE? I don't see an argument for Steamboat over Bulldog.

    Mind you, The Dragon and Smith are two of my three favorite wrestlers ever, but I find it interesting that one guy's contribution to the WWE is a bit overrated while the other doesn't receive enough credit.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I find it curious that some were so against Bulldog being in the list, but then additional people voted to add in Ricky Steamboat. They both had very similar histories with the IC Title with iconic victories, forgettable reigns, that were then ended by a heel who had a much more memorable reign. Quality wise, they both had likely the same amount of great matches in the WWE. The one area in which they differ is that Bulldog was a bigger deal for a longer amount of time. If you want to take full careers into consideration, than yeah, Steamboat clearly was the bigger superstar, but just WWE? I don't see an argument for Steamboat over Bulldog.

    Mind you, The Dragon and Smith are two of my three favorite wrestlers ever, but I find it interesting that one guy's contribution to the WWE is a bit overrated while the other doesn't receive enough credit.
    Certainly fair. I think it's another case, like Rude, where over the years WWE has inflated his legacy to greater heights than they have Bulldog's. And I think I would give Steamboat some extra points for influence, as like Shock said, his match with Savage was big for a lot of today's stars and it's clear he helped shape guys like Jericho and Punk's careers.

    I didn't vote for either guy. I felt neither warranted one of my 25 votes. Both would be in my top 50 however and they ended up in fairly close proximity here. I think that's fitting.

  20. #40
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    FWIW Bulldog was on the Top 50 draws in WWE history list Meltzer compiled a decade ago.


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