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Thread: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

  1. #201

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    #12
    MICK FOLEY

    381 points

    23 points OMB, 23 points MC 16, 21 points Jimmy King, 18 points Sicario, 17 points Nicky, 17 points Zero, 16 points PS, 16 points Recall, 15 points Mitch, 15 points Loocha, 15 points Deco90, 14 points Fuji Vice, 14 points Postman Dave, 14 points BD22, 13 points The EC, 13 points TCON, 13 points TedSr, 13 points Wolf Beast, 13 points Keefmoon, 12 points LibSuperstar, 12 points Grim, 12 points Thundercat, 11 points Shock, 9 points TGR, 7 points Kintaro, 5 points Baldrick, 5 points Ed, 3 points Willis, 2 points RED



    3 x WWE Champion
    1 x WWE Hardcore Champion
    8 x WWE Tag Team Champion
    WWE Hall of Fame, Class of 2013


    Fitting that the greatest underdog in WWE history climbed to these great heights on this countdown. We already have a couple people calling out his placement. Fair enough. But the votes don't lie. He is universally respected and rightfully so. By what measure of greatness is he not, in fact, great? Goes without saying that he is one of the best characters and talkers WWE has ever had. He packed an abundance of great matches in a relatively short career. I would say at times in the Attitude Era he was the most over person in the company and you know that's a hell of an accomplishment competing alongside the likes of DX, Undertaker, The Rock and Stone Cold. Is there any questioning his legacy? His stunts in Hell in a Cell, flying off the stage in a dumpster, getting speared through a flaming table, the “this is your life” promo, the Mr. Socko bit with McMahon in the hospital just to name a few of the iconic Foley moments that come to mind. He even influenced WWE to start a hardcore division and though that had mixed results, it does say something about his impact. And you have many stars competing today who call him a favorite of theirs. Peak Mick Foley is without a doubt one of the biggest stars WWE has ever had.

    The path to WWE was not an easy one for Foley. It took 13 hard years to make that climb. Interestingly enough, though he was inspired by WWE to get into wrestling, he never really fit the mold of a WWE superstar so he adapted and made a name however he could. That meant a well crafted character and putting his body through things that few others would. What Foley lacked in looks and what you might call traditional charisma, he made up for with psychology and a legendary work ethic. He busted his ass in several US territories, WCW, ECW and Japan to finally reach his destination. When he got to WWE, he did not disappoint. He arrived on the scene as Mankind, who was a character unlike any we had ever seen in WWE. And I don't mean to say he was the darkest. But the layers the character had made it stand out from the Undertakers and Papa Shangos of the world. That's a credit to Foley's IQ for the business. His initial feud with Undertaker is one of the most notable of the time period and not long into his career he had a classic title bout with Shawn Michaels at In Your House: Mind Games just a few months into his career. His rivalry with Taker would continue over the next couple of years, while he also became tangled in with Stone Cold Steve Austin and began to shed some light on the other Faces of Foley. In those first few years he competed in the first hardcore match, first buried alive match and third Hell on a Cell match in WWE's history helping set the tone for a more edgy WWE product.



    His momentum was built up and in late 1998 Mankind’s character was modified to be more goofy and loveable getting him over like never before. His association with Vince McMahon solidified him a spot in the WWF Title picture. He was turned face after the boss chose The Rock as his right hand man, screwing Mankind out of the gold in the process. This would kickstart one of the greatest most mutually beneficial rivalries/alliances that we've seen between Mankind and The Rock. He captured the WWF Title three times through 1998 and 1999 but in 2000 the brutality he had put himself through caught up with him and he retired from full time wrestling after a fierce rivalry with Triple H. His post-wrestling career saw him play the part of Commissioner, Commentator and recently General Manager. He had matches from time to time which always delivered, most notably dusting off the boots to give Randy Orton and Edge a good rub.



    If nothing else Mick Foley is one of the most memorable superstars in WWE history. His death defying antics made him into a legend and unfortunately probably cut his in ring career short. But he chased glory his whole career and thankfully got the chance the achieve it in WWE with rivalries that we will never forget. His outlandish personas endeared him to the audience and he is one of those select guys that can say he made it to the pinnacle of the business despite not possessing the traditional traits of a WWE superstars. I personally will always consider him a favorite and he's one of the guys who made me fall in love in wrestling. We should all salute Foley for the things he put himself through just to bring us some amusement!

    #11
    BRUNO SAMMARTINO

    409 points

    25 points TCON, 25 points Grim, 25 points Wang Chung, 23 points Fuji Vice, 23 points Thundercat, 22 points Shock, 22 points Wolf Beast, 22 points Mitch, 21 points HoHo, 21 points LibSuperstar, 21 points Zero, 20 points Kintaro, 20 points BD22, 18 points The EC, 18 points Baldrick, 17 points MC 16, 17 points TedSr, 15 points Keefmoon, 13 points Nicky, 11 points Ed, 7 points Willis, 3 points Postman Dave



    2 x WWE Champion
    2 x WWWF International Tag Team Champion
    1 x WWWF United States Tag Team Champion
    WWE Hall of Fame, Class of 2013


    One of the hardest things to do while ranking is decide how to measure different eras. This applies to music, film, sports and also wrestling. These industries evolve and the measuring stick changes over time. Does Bruno Sammartino suffer from or benefit from this though? I think that's a fair question. On one hand you can look at him at him and say his matches weren't entertaining (subjectively) and he benefited from the state of the business at the time. And on the other hand he was very over, fans at that time and place loved watching him wrestle, and there's nothing you can say to discredit eleven years as WWE’s World Champion. It's never been duplicated and it never will. It's the wrestling equivalent of Wilt's 100 point game. Would it have happened in this day and age? Clearly not. But it's damn impressive. When you look at Bruno's career in general, that's really all you can say. It was damn impressive. He was as popular as any man has ever been at any given time in wrestling and his legacy is one that is cemented and will endure the test of time.

    He first wrestled in what would evolve into WWE at the end of the 1950s and it was quickly apparent what a draw he could be. He had a falling out with Vince Sr. that lead to him touring around Canada and continuing to build his reputation. He was persuaded to come back to work for McMahon as he was establishing the World Wide Wrestling Federation under the condition he beat Buddy Rogers for the World Title. He did so and the rest is history. Bruno went on a tear, holding onto the belt for close to eight years as both his and the WWWF's popularity steadily climbed. He defended against the likes of Killer Kowalski, Tarzan Tyler, Gorilla Monsoon, George Steele and others. Ultimately, it was Ivan Koloff who dethroned him (as a transitional champion to get the belt onto Pedro Morales) in what is surely one of the most startling moments in wrestling history. In between reigns he worked a couple tag team programs and put on some well regarded bouts with Pedro Morales. He did regain the title from Stan Stasiak in 1973 despite a growing friction with the management in the company.



    Thanks to an unparalleled popularity his second reign lasted three and a half years and continued in spite of a fractured neck he sustained against Stan Hansen. He bounced back and put on the 1976 match of the year against Hansen upon his return. The injuries piled up leading to him willingly dropping the title to the flamboyant Superstar Billy Graham in 1977. This would signal the beginning of the end of his career, though the injuries that were hampering him did not stifle his popularity or stop him from putting on some of the best contests in the promotion. He had a high profile feud that I believe is his most remembered among modern wrestling fans against his protege Larry Zbyszko throughout 1980 which climaxed in a steel cage at Shea Stadium in front of a crowd of 30,000 plus people! This was his last big storyline as an active wrestler and produced another match of the year, a testament to his work ethic and consistency. He would have a few more matches scattered throughout the years and appeared as a commentator and referee as well.



    Ultimately Bruno Sammartino has to he regarded as WWE's first mega star and legend. There's really no debate about that. More than that this is a man whose family was caught in World War II, forced to hide in mountains from German soldiers as a young child who was on the brink of starvation before getting the chance to immigrate to America. His fierce drive to succeed coupled with a passion for the sport lead to him becoming reportedly one of the strongest men on Earth and hands down the greatest wrestling star of his time. His toughness was evident, it radiated off of him. Anyone that has crossed paths with him has testified to him being a true powerhouse who demanded respect, even challenging Mohammed Ali to a fight, reportedly slinging him across the room when Ali dared challenge him to an arm wrestling match. This legitimacy helped make him a larger than life sensation. Sammartino is one of the select wrestling stars with WWE Bronze Statue dedicated to him. He sold out the most famous arena in wrestling, Madison Square Garden, 187 times. He held the top prize in WWE for over 11 years combined. He is a champion in more than one way and a guy who ate, drank and slept wrestling and arguably represented the art better than anyone ever has. You can't say enough about what he has done for the industry and there will never be anyone more deserving of the title “legend”.

  2. #202
    The Only 2x WC HOF
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    For those that might think Foley is too high:

    The best promo guy in the history of WWE. If I were to do my top 10 WWE promos ever it wouldn't surprise me if Foley was in half of them. Even post retirement Foley has been superb (ignore his GM run from 2016).

    3 great characters, all different to one another. Mankind is my pick for best WWE character ever.

    Universally loved by all fans. Very few can say that.

    One of the most iconic matches and spots in WWE history at KOTR 1998.

    Arguably the all time greatest Raw moment in January 1999.

    A selfless individual who elevated wrestlers like Edge, HHH, the Rock, and Orton much higher than they were before.

    A fantastic in ring talent. For every year he was active (including 2004 and 2006), he had the moty or the second best moty in the company. The only exception is 1997 where he was still good but the top of the card was on another level. He was also the first (?) to have good matches and good feuds with the Undertaker. Was influential in making the Attitude Era main event brawling style a thing.

    One of the few parts of the Attitude Era that doesn't suck looking back on. A host of amazing moments like This is your Life, the interviews with JR, winning the tag titles with Austin. Even when he's lower on the card or doing dumb comedy, Foley makes it work.

    Just outside the top 10 is a fine place for Foley. His run was short but it is packed with great stuff and great moments.

    Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

  3. #203
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    I'm good with Foley at 12 for the reasons listed by Shock. Bruno being outside the top 10 is a little surprising but with the names to come it's kind of understandable at the same time.
    I have a plan so cunning......

  4. #204
    The Only 2x WC HOF
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Happy with the top 10 too. Apart from Bruno and Andre, all my top 10 are there. The other two that didn't make my top 10 were 11 and 12 on my list so can't have too many complaints.

    Unless Michaels gets number 1. Then we burn WC to the ground.

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  5. #205
    Underdog
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    I agree with Shock. Foley's maybe a little high for me, but not by much. He's less overrated in this than Andre was underrated, for instance.

    I understand why Bruno is where he is. I put I'm in a decent place in mine more for legacy than having any actual opinion of him personally. I'm sure if I knew more about pre-1985 WWF then he'd be a lot higher, but I don't, and nor do the vast majority of people. It's like where an album is loved by critics but not so much fans. If you're not a wrestling historian, how "great" can you truly say Bruno is?

    I've quickly worked it out and I think I know who the top 10 are, which if it's right I'm pretty much okay with. There are a couple that I hope are coming soon, and a couple I hope aren't going to come up for a while...





  6. #206
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    I think foley was my num 3 just one of the best one of those he shouldnt if made it guys a true underdog

    Spoiler:


    CWA World Heavyweight Champion
    Brayden Bridges


  7. #207
    TAKE THE DREAM~

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Foley was one of my top picks. Highly influential in many ways, stylistically, the way babyface were presented (constantly embarrassed, told he wasn't good enough, the sympathetic loser), helped build and mold other wrestlers. Got one of the few great Triple H matches in his career which still is a massive legacy both men have today. One of the greatest stunts of all time. Great in every role. Top 3 choice for me no doubt, shame he couldn't be higher but this is a good place nonetheless
    Spoiler:


    Milano Forever!

  8. #208

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    For those that might think Foley is too high:

    The best promo guy in the history of WWE. If I were to do my top 10 WWE promos ever it wouldn't surprise me if Foley was in half of them. Even post retirement Foley has been superb (ignore his GM run from 2016).

    3 great characters, all different to one another. Mankind is my pick for best WWE character ever.

    Universally loved by all fans. Very few can say that.

    One of the most iconic matches and spots in WWE history at KOTR 1998.

    Arguably the all time greatest Raw moment in January 1999.

    A selfless individual who elevated wrestlers like Edge, HHH, the Rock, and Orton much higher than they were before.

    A fantastic in ring talent. For every year he was active (including 2004 and 2006), he had the moty or the second best moty in the company. The only exception is 1997 where he was still good but the top of the card was on another level. He was also the first (?) to have good matches and good feuds with the Undertaker. Was influential in making the Attitude Era main event brawling style a thing.

    One of the few parts of the Attitude Era that doesn't suck looking back on. A host of amazing moments like This is your Life, the interviews with JR, winning the tag titles with Austin. Even when he's lower on the card or doing dumb comedy, Foley makes it work.

    Just outside the top 10 is a fine place for Foley. His run was short but it is packed with great stuff and great moments.

    Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
    I should have got you to write Foley's entry. Very well said my friend.

  9. #209
    THE HEARTBREAK KID
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Really interesting to see how the list has turned out and though there's a couple I didn't vote for, I can't argue with a lot of the placements. Really pleased to see the likes of Angle & Foley get such high placements. Fully deserved.

    I have to say, that's about where I had CM Punk on my list but I was expecting him to be in the top 10 by most people.
    Prepare for the.. BACKLASH!




    ...COMING SOON, TO THE "BTB" SECTION!

    *** CREDIT TO THE LOOCHA BEAR FOR THE GRAPHIC ***


  10. #210

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    #10
    Chris Jericho

    454 points

    25 points OMB, 24 points sebsy, 23 points TGR, 20 points RED, 20 points Recall, 20 points Ed, 19 points Willis, 19 points Loocha, 18 points Jimmy King, 18 points Deco90, 17 points PS, 16 points Thundercat, 15 points The EC, 15 points TedSr, 15 points Sicario, 14 points Mitch, 14 points Zero, 13 points MC 16, 13 points Shock, 13 points Fuji Vice, 13 points BD22, 12 points Baldrick, 11 points Kintaro, 11 points Nicky, 11 points Postman Dave, 10 points Wolf Beast, 10 points Keefmoon, 9 points TCON, 8 points Grim, 8 points JT Grizzle



    3 x World Heavyweight Champion
    2 x WCW Champion
    1 x WWE Undisputed Champion
    9 x WWE Intercontinental Champion
    2 x WWE United States Champion
    1 x WWE European Champion
    1 x WWE Hardcore Champion
    2 x WWE Tag Team Champion
    5 x World Tag Team Champion
    Ninth Triple Crown Champion
    Fourth Grand Slam Champion


    Chris Jericho… YOU JUST MADE THE LIST!

    If I'm being honest I am surprised to see Jericho here. Not in a bad way, mind you. I put him at 11 on my personal list. I genuinely think he is one of the greatest wrestlers to ever live and he is my personal favorite. I did think his lack of alpha dog status in the company would hold him back a bit but he shattered my expectations and snuck his way into a top 10 spot. I'm so happy I could cry…



    Upon arriving in the WWE after potentially the most memorable build up and debut ever in the company he immediately got over as one of the most popular acts in the company. It certainly helped that he had established himself abroad as one of the finest wrestlers on Earth and in WCW showed that he had a unique charisma and great mind for the business, cutting promos that at the time I would say were revolutionary. The bit with Ralphus, his feud with Goldberg, the conspiracy victim, “The Man of 1004 Holds”... classic stuff. In WWE he got the chance to spar with the best talkers in the business, which only solidified his status as a top level mic worker. He also got a better push pretty quickly compared to what he had reached in WCW. He did work the midcard some and did so masterfully, but he was always presented as someone who could go with the top dogs in the company, supported by the fact his debut was a promo with The Rock and his first notable feud saw him capture the Intercontinental Championship. His first WrestleMania was a highly touted triple threat match against Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit which he walked away from with the European Championship. Not a year into his stay on the roster he “defeated” Triple H for the WWF Championship, but the decision was reversed amidst controversy. The roar of the crowd made it abundantly clear that Y2J was to be taken seriously as a superstar in the business.



    Though this title win would not hold up, not too far down the road, The Invasion angle began with Jericho playing a key part. Due to his tension with The Rock and an overarching McMahon-Austin rivalry, Jericho became the first ever Undisputed Champion, winning back to back matches against The Rock (for the World Heavyweight Championship) and Stone Cold Steve Austin (for the WWF Championship). While the wins weren’t exactly clean you can’t really complain about beating two of the most dominant superstars in history on the same night and walk away with two world titles. He carried both belts into WrestleMania X8 which he would main event against Triple H. The problem being that their match went on after The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan, one of the biggest matches to ever take place. So unfortunately for Jericho his first and only WrestleMania main event wasn’t even the biggest match on the card. The next year however he nearly stole the show at WrestleMania XIX in an undercard bout against his idol Shawn Michaels. If not for Stone Cold wrestling his last match at this event, we’d probably look back on Jericho vs. Michaels as the most remarkable match of the show. To this day this is one of my favorite matches and fortunately for all of us this would not be the last time Y2J crossed paths with The Showstopper. His first break from WWE came in 2005 after a very entertaining program with John Cena, where he was fired by Eric Bischoff after putting his career on the line for one more chance to defeat Cena. I only watched that match once but still vividly remember Jericho being booted from the arena and gaining sympathy from the fans despite being the top heel on Raw for months prior to this.



    Somehow, some way Jericho was able to make lightning strike twice when he returned to WWE in 2007 on the back of months of build up featuring vignettes displaying binary code and hidden messages. Upon his return he was as popular as ever and his “Save_Us.Y2J” branding was immensely over. His initial return as a face didn’t yield the best results though, as his booking was fairly bland and WWE didn’t capitalize on the return as well as they could. That would change in mid-2008 when Jericho underwent a heel turn and gimmick change, becoming more calculating and sadistic than we have ever seen him. The launching pad for this turn was a feud of the year he had with Michaels who he accused of taking pleasure in retiring Ric Flair and cheating to get his wins. The rivalry was brilliant, thanks to the sympathy Michaels was able to generate and how much of an asshole Jericho was able to be, claiming that the fans were sheep and would cheer a cheater like Michaels and never appreciate all of Jericho’s hard work. The two men had a handful of matches over the course of several months, each more scathing and entertaining than the last. Once that feud ended, Jericho continued his sociopathic ways, forming a tag team with Edge to win the Unified Tag Team Championship. Edge went down with a torn achilles, leading to a new team with The Big Show which would be crowned Tag Team of the Year at the Slammys. Edge returned at and won the Royal Rumble, while Jericho captured the World Heavyweight Championship at the Elimination Chamber which set the stage for one of my favorite WWE Jericho matches at WrestleMania XXVI. He and Edge a very nice heated battle which was only eclipsed by the all time classic Undertaker vs. Michaels main event. Two years later after a hiatus from the business, Jericho returned, still heel, provoking the immensely popular WWE Champion CM Punk by exploiting issues in his personal life and going to war with him over his straight edge lifestyle. Jericho once more delivered on the grand stage putting on the match of the night against CM Punk, though he fell short of winning the WWE Championship.



    From this point on, Jericho played a utility role, one that he has always excelled at. In between tours with his band, Jericho has returned for short periods and largely played the role of a gatekeeper to the main event, giving rubs to the upcoming stars in the WWE. Ziggler, Wyatt, Ambrose, Styles and Fandango ( ) are among those Jericho helped solidify over the next few years of part time work. The highlight of his later career thus far has to be his friendship and rivalry with Kevin Owens which spawned numerous priceless promos and laugh out loud moments, including the birth of “The List of Jericho”, perhaps the greatest running gag in WWE history? We have not seen much of Jericho in WWE in the past year but I think we all remain hopeful that he will be a part of WWE going forward as he has proved he is still capable of reinventing himself and keeping fans interested at every turn, and with a five star match with Kenny Omega earlier this year in New Japan, he has shown he can still go in the ring after almost 30 (!!!!) years in the business. The man still has plenty to offer and fingers crossed he comes back for another run sooner rather than later.

    What Jericho will most likely be best remembered for was his ability to evolve as a character with each new incarnation succeeding just as well as the previous one. He has the coveted skill to play a masterful heel or face, and his gimmicks range from goofy to psychotic. For my money he was the best mic worker in the business between when The Rock left and CM Punk really hit his stride. Mic work aside, he has also churned out an array of awesome matches in his 19 year WWE career. He was an instant success and has few stretches in his career where he was anything less than phenomenal. More than anyone else I can think of, Jericho could seamlessly transition between roles. As mentioned, he could be a face or a heel. Singles or tag team. He could carry a brand or be a valuable mid carder. He can wrestle a clinic or entertain us on the mic. It’s all about adaptability for Jericho and there was never a role Jericho couldn’t fill like a natural. He has an innate chemistry with several of the greatest wrestlers ever, giving us fantastic matches against Chris Benoit, The Rock, Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio, Undertaker, CM Punk and even Ricky Steamboat. His contributions to WWE are extensive and include his reign as the first ever Unidsputed WWF Champion, the most reigns ever as Intercontinental Champion, the creation of Money In The Bank, more Elimination Chamber matches than anyone else and countless rising stars put over… not to mention his killer theme music. Just like Jericho was inspired by stars of the past such as Shawn Michaels, Ricky Steamboat and Nick Bockwinkel, stars emerging now and for decades to come will surely point to Jericho as an influence for them. I would not be the fan of wrestling I am today without Chris Jericho. It was Rock and Austin who drew me in but Jericho kept me hooked and for years has lived up to his title as “the best in the world at what he does”!

  11. #211
    THE MAN

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    This is probably about right for Jericho, I think he should of come after Punk but that's about it.

    - One of the all time great debuts
    - Underrated figure in the Monday Night War
    - First ever Undisputed Champion
    - Too many titles to mention
    - A WWE career almost spanning 2 decades.
    - Excellent talker, could get anything over
    - Great matches and feuds with a multitude of stars across generations
    - MOTY 2000 (HHH), 2005 (MITB), 2008 (Michaels) and 2009 (Mysterio). Arguably MOTY 2001 also depending on your thoughts on Rock/Austin, but he has many in the top 5. Would have it for the chamber in 2010 if not for HBK/Taker.
    - Master of the surprise return/working the fans online
    - Constantly reinventing himself like no other wrestler in WWE ever has

    I think what holds him back most is he was never 'the guy', even when he did get the world title he just felt like he was keeping it warm to put over the next champion. Consistency can sometimes be an issue, but with a career that long you won't find many consistently great wrestlers.

    I'll say this too as an aside to his WWE achievements, this New Japan run he's having is a huge feather in his cap that pushes him higher up any greatest ever wrestler lists. To go to another country so late in your career and reinvent yourself enough to be a draw and hang with the top stars in a different promotion is impressive and the Kenny Omega match is one of the best matches of his career. Triple H is one year younger than Jericho and is embarrassing himself with the worst ever matches of his career. I don't think his WWE career is over either; he'll probably do one more year with New Japan and at that point he'll be an even hotter property that WWE will just keep bringing him back until he retires based on their love of old timers.

  12. #212
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Jericho was my num 1 and is goat to me I say this due to # Of championships, longatvity, changing with the times and willingness to put talent over and pay it foward

    Spoiler:


    CWA World Heavyweight Champion
    Brayden Bridges


  13. #213

    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Bringing up all of Jericho's title reigns to me is an odd positive simply because he's the master of having super short reigns. Case in point, Jericho's time with the IC Title. Held it an insane amount of nine times, but his total time with the belt is still nearly two months away from being a full year. Only one reign even lasted more than 100 days, but he virtually never defended the title then. His time as WHC barely ever went beyond a month. His time as a tag team champion is similar to his days as IC Champion where most of the reigns were really short with the longest just being under five months.

    He's someone associated with being one of the better champions, of various titles, but I often struggle to remember much about his individual reigns.

  14. #214

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Bringing up all of Jericho's title reigns to me is an odd positive simply because he's the master of having super short reigns. Case in point, Jericho's time with the IC Title. Held it an insane amount of nine times, but his total time with the belt is still nearly two months away from being a full year. Only one reign even lasted more than 100 days, but he virtually never defended the title then. His time as WHC barely ever went beyond a month. His time as a tag team champion is similar to his days as IC Champion where most of the reigns were really short with the longest just being under five months.

    He's someone associated with being one of the better champions, of various titles, but I often struggle to remember much about his individual reigns.
    I see your point on the short reigns though I remember all his world title reigns, several tag title reigns, his US reigns and a couple IC reigns perfectly. A lot of his reigns seemed to feature him winning the belt, holding it a bit, losing it, winning it back then dropping it again in a short span. Thus the numbers are pretty in inflated. The fact he was voted "Greatest Intercontinental Champion" is odd, I can think of at least five people to put ahead of him in that regard. But nonetheless... the sheer number of title wins is still impressive in my book. Less impressive when you look at them in context, for sure though.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    I don't really get the idea that Jericho's title reigns are inferior or something due to their length. I always remember Jericho's title reigns being active and fulfilling, even if not super long. Maybe not the IC title ones but the others, and the first IC title reigns were around when he, Angle, and Benoit were trading the belt back and forth as part of the trio's rise together.

    When Jericho was the tag champs with Edge/Big Show, they were one of the two or three biggest and most important things happening on Raw. I would even put JeriShow as one having one of the top 5 or 10 tag title reigns since the brand split. They weren't just floating around. Their feuds were always rock solid and the feud with Cryme Tyme was really good.

    Jericho's feud with Shawn in 2008 is still one of the best feuds I've ever seen since the brand split. I voted Jericho third. I think he has been that fucking great in WWF. I'm glad his initial massive debut push and subsequent heat didn't end up as the nail in the coffin for his career.


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  16. #216
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Jericho is well worth a top 10 place. For all we talked about Big Show, Miz, etc being ultimate utility guys, Jericho smokes everyone in that regard. Fantastic as a heel or face. Midcard, tag team or main event. Wherever he needs to be, he'll generally deliver.

    What's best about him is his willingness to adapt and change his character and push new ideas. He's a brilliant mind for business. In 2008 his heel run was so good that he basically created an archetype for all heels in WWE going forward. That suit wearing, stoic, slow-talking heel was copied by almost every heel from the Miz to Jack Swagger in the years after.

    He has one of the best WWE feuds ever to his name against Michaels. What makes that an even bigger accomplishment is knowing that he wrote it too.

    His title reigns are a slight negative but I'd never use his reigns for an argument for Jericho. There's so many other positives about him to justify his placement.

    All that said, his debut sucked and is one of the most overrated segments in WWE history.

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  17. #217

    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    All that said, his debut sucked and is one of the most overrated segments in WWE history.
    I think his returns in general tend to be pretty lame. The 2007 one was embarrassing and didn't get much of a reaction. His 2012 one ultimately made zero sense despite the really interesting series of vignettes and initial silence. His returns after mini-breaks failed to feel important since he remained stale up until he figured out a new character with The List of Jericho.

  18. #218
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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I think his returns in general tend to be pretty lame. The 2007 one was embarrassing and didn't get much of a reaction. His 2012 one ultimately made zero sense despite the really interesting series of vignettes and initial silence. His returns after mini-breaks failed to feel important since he remained stale up until he figured out a new character with The List of Jericho.
    He gets top marks for originality but I agree they were lame.

    The worst was 2012 with everyone trying to convince themselves that it was some masterful television from WWE and Jericho.

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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    I'm kind of stunned he's this high. He started around here on my list, but gradually fell further and further back the more I thought about it.

    Personally, I love him. He's one of my all time favourites. He deserves a good spot based on memorable moments, match quality, promo ability, kayfabe accomplishments, ability to reinvent himself, longevity, etc. He is absolutely an time great and it's hard to argue otherwise. He's brilliant.

    However... Top 10 feels a bit much to me. As Ed says, he was never the guy. Even in his Undisputed Title reign, which was his kayfabe peak, he was, what, 5th most important person on the roster? To quote HHH, he's a B+ guy. A great B+ guy, but a B+ guy nonetheless. And the top 10 greatest ever has to be A guys, in my opinion.

    I'd also throw out a controversial opinion that, in WWE, there have been a few examples of him underimpressing in his "biggest" matches, and while he has longevity, there are a few dead spots within that. Again, nothing major, and he's a definite top 20 or so, but this all holds him back from the top 10 for me.





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    Re: WC's Greatest Superstars in WWE History - THE COUNTDOWN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keefmoon View Post
    I'm kind of stunned he's this high. He started around here on my list, but gradually fell further and further back the more I thought about it.

    Personally, I love him. He's one of my all time favourites. He deserves a good spot based on memorable moments, match quality, promo ability, kayfabe accomplishments, ability to reinvent himself, longevity, etc. He is absolutely an time great and it's hard to argue otherwise. He's brilliant.

    However... Top 10 feels a bit much to me. As Ed says, he was never the guy. Even in his Undisputed Title reign, which was his kayfabe peak, he was, what, 5th most important person on the roster? To quote HHH, he's a B+ guy. A great B+ guy, but a B+ guy nonetheless. And the top 10 greatest ever has to be A guys, in my opinion.

    I'd also throw out a controversial opinion that, in WWE, there have been a few examples of him underimpressing in his "biggest" matches, and while he has longevity, there are a few dead spots within that. Again, nothing major, and he's a definite top 20 or so, but this all holds him back from the top 10 for me.
    To be fair which true top guys has he ranked ahead of? Lesnar, Sammartino, maybe Warrior or Backlund? Maybe Diesel? Of those I think Sammartino is the only guy that may have been snubbed for this spot.

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