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Thread: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

  1. #21

    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    The fuck. This story was even a news item on today's Philip Defranco show complete with hearing the audio clip. I never thought I'd see the day when I hear Dave f'n Meltzer's voice on one of Defranco's shows.

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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    The fuck. This story was even a news item on today's Philip Defranco show complete with hearing the audio clip. I never thought I'd see the day when I hear Dave f'n Meltzer's voice on one of Defranco's shows.
    Doubt Meltzer is having a faaantaaastic Thursday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakstang
    You can't have a reasonable discussion about serious topics with people like Marketh around.

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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Marketh View Post
    Doubt Meltzer is having a faaantaaastic Thursday.
    Whether or not he's beautiful is neither here nor there on him being a bastard.

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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    The amount of people who haven't listened to the original audio yet feel justified to comment on the situation is... alarming. Dave's comments weren't of the body-shaming variety. He was discussing the differences from NXT to the main roster, and used the term 'lighter' as he and Bryan were dancing around not saying 'boob job' or 'breast augmentation.' I'll give you that his apology was cringey. He should have said, "if you have any respect for CONTEXT you would know that I didn't do any of that but I am very sorry you were duped by some fan, and regret that my comments were so unclear that you could perceive them as a slight against you."

    That probably wouldn't have gone over well either, but I wish he would have shown some teeth on the situation. The reason he didn't is because her words cut him deep - he has some experience with someone in his life being weight-shamed apparently, and that was never his intention, so he's actually very sorry that his words were misconceived. Anyone thinking he was "body-shaming" her needs to get their heads out of their asses. That would be like saying it's "body-shaming" when a wrestling journalist notes that a wrestler has put on more weight since returning from injury, and isn't moving as well as a result. IT'S THE SAME THING. How fucking stupid does that sound?

    All the WWE people that piled on - Renee, Seth, etc. unfortunately look very immature/stupid for ignoring context to vilify a dude who is doing his job. Shame on them, and some in this thread.

    The clip was taken out of context and presented to Peyton in an attempt to manufacture outrage, and it worked because stupid people tend to ignore context. What he said wasn't outrageous and he shouldn't have received nearly the amount of flak that he has. Pro wrestling is largely about perception, and in an entertainment industry where looks do make a difference, that's absolutely fair game as far as topics of discussion go.

    I'm not going to bother individually replying but there's a shit load of stupidity in this thread. If you made negative comments towards Dave on here, and you haven't heard the podcast itself (beyond the clip tweeted to Peyton), you are probably an idiot.
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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Natty
    All the WWE people that piled on - Renee, Seth, etc. unfortunately look very immature/stupid for ignoring context to vilify a dude who is doing his job.
    I don’t agree with everything you said but this stuck out to be because this has always been a problem to me. I get the company has a family atmosphere to it and it’s important to stick up for people you care about, but a lot of the time it does come off as gang mentality and people sounding off because they’re riled up. Sadly, it does make those people look dumber than the person who looks dumb. This is like the Lio Rush tweet all over again.

    Then again, I’ve don’t really know why Dave went there because it felt off even in context and his apology didn’t help the matter.
    -------
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiZ-R View Post
    What the fuck is happening to you guys? I once got a blowjob where she used her teeth a little bit too much and I ended up with a bloody dick, I still enjoyed the blowjob up to the point I started bleeding. I can honestly say that I have never had anything I would call a bad blowjob, that wasn't a great experience but up until I started gushing blood I was having a great time!
    Spoiler:


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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee Nicky View Post
    I don’t agree with everything you said but this stuck out to be because this has always been a problem to me. I get the company has a family atmosphere to it and it’s important to stick up for people you care about, but a lot of the time it does come off as gang mentality and people sounding off because they’re riled up. Sadly, it does make those people look dumber than the person who looks dumb. This is like the Lio Rush tweet all over again.
    It's worse than the Lio Rush thing in my opinion because Lio Rush's job isn't to comment on the hiring/firing of his coworkers. Dave is literally paid to talk about his opinions on wrestling and wrestlers (in addition to the journalistic side of what he does, his opinions are part of the package). The gang mentality thing is prevalent on Twitter and that's a level of toxicity we've all sort of accepted at this point, but it's another level of cringe entirely when the wrestlers are getting in on the action as well.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Then again, I’ve don’t really know why Dave went there because it felt off even in context and his apology didn’t help the matter
    Yeah, even in context of the full interview, it's not a good look. He's still bringing up the issue of her boob job in an ongoing conversation about how the Iconics are faring on the main roster. I'm sorry for being an idiot but I don't see how her breasts are anything to do with why her act isn't working. If it was a valid, logical point, we'd of seen more people point it out before now that her boob job is affecting her quality of work, or the people defending Meltzer would be saying 'I agree with Dave, I've found her larger breasts have decreased my enjoyment of the act'. This is literally the first time I have heard someone link her boob job to her unspectacular call up.

    I've listened to his apology the next day and it's not one of these insincere apologies because he got caught and he wants it to blow over, you can tell he genuinely feels sorry for the mistake and the hurt he caused someone who has a history of being mocked for her looks. I also don't think there's much argument on whether this falls under the remit of Dave's job when he's said himself he shouldn't of made the comments and he felt horrible the moment he read Peyton's reply.

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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Yeah, even in context of the full interview, it's not a good look. He's still bringing up the issue of her boob job in an ongoing conversation about how the Iconics are faring on the main roster. I'm sorry for being an idiot but I don't see how her breasts are anything to do with why her act isn't working. If it was a valid, logical point, we'd of seen more people point it out before now that her boob job is affecting her quality of work, or the people defending Meltzer would be saying 'I agree with Dave, I've found her larger breasts have decreased my enjoyment of the act'. This is literally the first time I have heard someone link her boob job to her unspectacular call up.
    It's certainly something that could be mentioned in a conversation about the difference in an act between NXT and the main roster, it's just that it should be expressed differently (if at all). I think the bigger, more legitimate issue here is that several people are hounding him for weight-shaming and he did no such thing. It's sad that we live in a world where people are more interested in berating someone over an opinion they didn't even have, than they are interested in checking up on the veracity of the context of said opinion, like a responsible person should do before making remarks, but here we are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    I also don't think there's much argument on whether this falls under the remit of Dave's job when he's said himself he shouldn't of made the comments and he felt horrible the moment he read Peyton's reply.
    Except he also said that he's going to continue to do his job and until the wrestling business changes, commenting on looks and appearance is part of that. I forget the exact wording but it was something about not compromising his work by leaving out relevant information in a business where looks/appearance is relevant.

    He expressed his distaste at the fact that such things matter, and that looks are such a big part of the entertainment industry, but recognizes that that's life and he can't change it, and it's still his responsibility to acknowledge it.
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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Natural View Post
    It's certainly something that could be mentioned in a conversation about the difference in an act between NXT and the main roster, it's just that it should be expressed differently (if at all).
    Former NXT wrestlers not being as good on the main roster as they were in NXT is one of the most common topics of conversation I see from wrestling fans across various mediums, it's right up there with turn Roman Reigns heel. Not once have I heard someone talk about a wrestlers change in physical appearance from NXT to WWE and suggesting that's a factor in why they aren't more successful. Change of gimmick, character or booking protection yes, but not an alteration of the way they used to look that is now apparently less desirable than before.

    I think the bigger, more legitimate issue here is that several people are hounding him for weight-shaming and he did no such thing. It's sad that we live in a world where people are more interested in berating someone over an opinion they didn't even have, than they are interested in checking up on the veracity of the context of said opinion, like a responsible person should do before making remarks, but here we are.
    It's another issue, but I think it does a disservice to the topic at hand to want to move past it quickly and talk about the gotcha mentality of today's society on any given topic. I don't care about any given topic right now, I care about this specific issue of the pressures WWE talent put themselves under to have a great body, is it fair game to comment on it from an analysis perspective of how well they perform their job, how does this match up to WWE's revolution of womens wrestling, where does the business go from here, in what ways can it improve things. I think those are points not worth glossing over.

    Except he also said that he's going to continue to do his job and until the wrestling business changes, commenting on looks and appearance is part of that. I forget the exact wording but it was something about not compromising his work by leaving out relevant information in a business where looks/appearance is relevant.

    He expressed his distaste at the fact that such things matter, and that looks are such a big part of the entertainment industry, but recognizes that that's life and he can't change it, and it's still his responsibility to acknowledge it.
    Well I'm not suggesting he shouldn't continue to do his job, but I think there were lessons here for him (and others) to learn from. From his apology interview I get the sense that he realizes it wasn't a relevant point to bring up in the first place and I think he'll think twice again before expressing someone used to look hotter before they had a boob job, whether that's for his sake or the females sake.

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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Former NXT wrestlers not being as good on the main roster as they were in NXT is one of the most common topics of conversation I see from wrestling fans across various mediums, it's right up there with turn Roman Reigns heel. Not once have I heard someone talk about a wrestlers change in physical appearance from NXT to WWE and suggesting that's a factor in why they aren't more successful. Change of gimmick, character or booking protection yes, but not an alteration of the way they used to look that is now apparently less desirable than before.
    And what does that say besides it doesn't happen often? Kind of goes without saying, but I guess I need to say it: if it happened more often, you would obviously see people talk about it more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    I don't care about any given topic right now, I care about this specific issue of the pressures WWE talent put themselves under to have a great body, is it fair game to comment on it from an analysis perspective of how well they perform their job, how does this match up to WWE's revolution of womens wrestling, where does the business go from here, in what ways can it improve things. I think those are points not worth glossing over.
    That's fair, but doesn't take away from the fact that all of this hoopla stems from someone taking a quote out of context and generating an absurd amount of outrage over something that isn't that outrageous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Well I'm not suggesting he shouldn't continue to do his job, but I think there were lessons here for him (and others) to learn from. From his apology interview I get the sense that he realizes it wasn't a relevant point to bring up in the first place and I think he'll think twice again before expressing someone used to look hotter before they had a boob job, whether that's for his sake or the females sake.
    I would swap 'relevant' with 'appropriate,' but you're right, I'm sure he will think twice about it. I enjoy hearing his opinions, up to and including a person's attractiveness, but I'm not going to unsubscribe if I never hear him fawn over Carmella's singlet again.
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  11. #31
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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    And what does that say besides it doesn't happen often? Kind of goes without saying, but I guess I need to say it: if it happened more often, you would obviously see people talk about it more.
    Because it makes no sense, NONE, whatsoever, to say that the IIconics would be more over if Peyton Royce didnt have a boob job.

    Has it ever had a negative effect on a wrestler?

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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sayer View Post
    Because it makes no sense, NONE, whatsoever, to say that the IIconics would be more over if Peyton Royce didnt have a boob job.
    Wow, who said that?
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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Natural View Post
    And what does that say besides it doesn't happen often? Kind of goes without saying, but I guess I need to say it: if it happened more often, you would obviously see people talk about it more.
    It has happened more often, Billie Kay had the same surgery around the same time Peyton had hers and hasn't been brought into this argument. Alexa also for sure has as well in the last year, and again, no-one is talking about that in their analysis of what kind of year she's having.

    Who is people? Dave is the only one making the link between the surgery and why he thinks the acts isn't working. I don't think you and I are going to see eye to eye in whether there's value in that link.

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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    It has happened more often, Billie Kay had the same surgery around the same time Peyton had hers and hasn't been brought into this argument. Alexa also for sure has as well in the last year, and again, no-one is talking about that in their analysis of what kind of year she's having.
    Alexa is irrelevant to the conversation because her change occurred on the main roster so there's little transition to speak of. Would you agree that Billie Kay is the weaker link in the Iconic Duo? IMO Billie was whatever to begin with but Peyton was actually pretty dope and seems to have lost something in the transition. Naturally, the conversation is going to be about the one who is having the starker contrast.

    People don't often speak about things that don't often happen. If it happened more, it would be discussed more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Who is people? Dave is the only one making the link between the surgery and why he thinks the acts isn't working. I don't think you and I are going to see eye to eye in whether there's value in that link.
    In that hypothetical situation, 'people' refers to observant people discussing wrestling candidly.

    And oh my fuck how is this still happening? Did he really say he thinks that's why the act isn't working? Or did he comment on what's not working, then mention something that's changed, and offer his personal opinion about the change? Please do tell. Because I hear a man who references their wrestling and their promos as not being particularly good, then goes on to mention "it's neither here nor there" meaning this does not pertain to the subject at hand (whether or not the act is working) and THEN mentions the physical change. He goes on to make a factual statement that she was lighter (without the breast augmentation) and offers the opinion that she stood out more (which could be construed as a reason why it's not working, but could just as easily be construed as Dave positing a semi-related thought). But even if you wanna take the 'lets go with the worse option' route, all Dave would be suggesting is that not standing out on the main roster isn't helpful. And that's not offensive, either!

    To resurrect a dead horse and beat it some more, it's not what he said, it's how he said it. What he's saying is not untrue or offensive, but he could have said it much better.

    Spoiler:

    Last edited by The Natural; 08-18-2018 at 06:06 AM.
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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Natural View Post

    And oh my fuck how is this still happening? Did he really say he thinks that's why the act isn't working? Or did he comment on what's not working, then mention something that's changed, and offer his personal opinion about the change? Please do tell. Because I hear a man who references their wrestling and their promos as not being particularly good, then goes on to mention "it's neither here nor there" meaning this does not pertain to the subject at hand (whether or not the act is working) and THEN mentions the physical change. He goes on to make a factual statement that she was lighter (without the breast augmentation) and offers the opinion that she stood out more (which could be construed as a reason why it's not working, but could just as easily be construed as Dave positing a semi-related thought). But even if you wanna take the 'lets go with the worse option' route, all Dave would be suggesting is that not standing out on the main roster isn't helpful. And that's not offensive, either!

    To resurrect a dead horse and beat it some more, it's not what he said, it's how he said it. What he's saying is not untrue or offensive, but he could have said it much better.

    Spoiler:

    Jesus Christ, we get it, you love Big Daddy Dave. He is a person in the community with a voice so yes, even though it wasn't about weight and was taken out of context that way WAS WRONG. Even if he had have just nutted up and said Boob Job, it's STILL WRONG. Two dudes watching wrestling in a living room, sure, I am sure they'd talk like that and whatever because they DON'T have an audience but Meltzer has sheep upon sheep that live and die by the sword that is evry opinion and word he has...*cough cough*. With that kind of "power", and he says stuff like this it'll give those sheep the feeling that they can do the same and the ball starts rolling. And let's be real, Alvarez knew what he was doing and fed into it too, he shouldn't be coming out of this unscathed. It was a foot in mouth statement and a pathetic excuse for an apology.
    Last edited by BXSTXRD; 08-18-2018 at 09:27 AM.

  16. #36

    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by BXSTXRD View Post
    And let's be real, Alvarez knew what he was doing and fed into it too, he shouldn't be coming out of this unscathed. It was a foot in mouth statement and a pathetic excuse for an apology.
    Bullshit. This is the part of all of the hate online that I disagree with the most. Alvarez didn't say anything bad during the episode and people get pissed off whenever Meltzer hints at something and then claims he can't say what it is. Alvarez was doing his job and getting Meltzer to state what he was alluding to. Had he not done so, people would have been annoyed at just the teasing.

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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by BXSTXRD View Post
    Jesus Christ, we get it, you love Big Daddy Dave. He is a person in the community with a voice so yes, even though it wasn't about weight and was taken out of context that way WAS WRONG. Even if he had have just nutted up and said Boob Job, it's STILL WRONG. Two dudes watching wrestling in a living room, sure, I am sure they'd talk like that and whatever because they DON'T have an audience but Meltzer has sheep upon sheep that live and die by the sword that is evry opinion and word he has...*cough cough*. With that kind of "power", and he says stuff like this it'll give those sheep the feeling that they can do the same and the ball starts rolling. And let's be real, Alvarez knew what he was doing and fed into it too, he shouldn't be coming out of this unscathed. It was a foot in mouth statement and a pathetic excuse for an apology.
    "Jesus Chris, we get it"

    Fucking do you? Because I actually had to transcribe it there since even though the audio is available in Peyton's tweet people are still twisting his words to make statements that weren't uttered, days after-the-fact.

    'Was wrong, still wrong,' no, and no. Nothing outrageous was said. Nothing offensive was said. "He is a person in the community with a voice so-" ohhh shit, he has a voice. He better not give a negative opinion about fucking anything then, because of all that POWER. Jesus christ... the nice thing about real snowflakes is they melt eventually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Bullshit. This is the part of all of the hate online that I disagree with the most. Alvarez didn't say anything bad during the episode and people get pissed off whenever Meltzer hints at something and then claims he can't say what it is. Alvarez was doing his job and getting Meltzer to state what he was alluding to. Had he not done so, people would have been annoyed at just the teasing.
    No Jim, don't you understand? He listened to this happen IN REAL TIME and didn't decry Meltzer at the end so he was ALSO WRONG! He, too, shall burn on our pyre of rage!

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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Bullshit. This is the part of all of the hate online that I disagree with the most. Alvarez didn't say anything bad during the episode and people get pissed off whenever Meltzer hints at something and then claims he can't say what it is. Alvarez was doing his job and getting Meltzer to state what he was alluding to. Had he not done so, people would have been annoyed at just the teasing.
    I disagree, Alvarez knew exactly what he was alludibg too and still prodded him along. If they had have just dropped it, there would be much less complaining and outrage.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Natural View Post
    "Jesus Chris, we get it"

    Fucking do you? Because I actually had to transcribe it there since even though the audio is available in Peyton's tweet people are still twisting his words to make statements that weren't uttered, days after-the-fact.

    'Was wrong, still wrong,' no, and no. Nothing outrageous was said. Nothing offensive was said. "He is a person in the community with a voice so-" ohhh shit, he has a voice. He better not give a negative opinion about fucking anything then, because of all that POWER. Jesus christ... the nice thing about real snowflakes is they melt eventually.
    Like I said, we get it and you worship Dave and all his wisdom. I don't fucking care if people have negative opinions and share them. His opinion was just negative, it was a jackass thing to put out there. Make her feel bad about her body for some views/listens and likes, He is so fucking cool.

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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    This debate is six stars.
    -------
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiZ-R View Post
    What the fuck is happening to you guys? I once got a blowjob where she used her teeth a little bit too much and I ended up with a bloody dick, I still enjoyed the blowjob up to the point I started bleeding. I can honestly say that I have never had anything I would call a bad blowjob, that wasn't a great experience but up until I started gushing blood I was having a great time!
    Spoiler:


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    Re: Peyton Royce Calls Out Dave Meltzer

    Quote Originally Posted by BXSTXRD View Post
    I don't fucking care if people have negative opinions and share them. His opinion was just negative, it was a jackass thing to put out there.
    You don't fucking care? Could have fooled me.

    It's his opinion. If you don't like it, don't subscribe and don't listen. Easy as that. Plenty of people do respect the man and his opinion and pay for the privilege to hear his insights on things. You don't. Fair enough. I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by BXSTXRD View Post
    Make her feel bad about her body for some views/listens and likes, He is so fucking cool.
    I want to isolate this part in particular. This situation was not as simple as him making her feel bad about her body. He offered his opinion on a change in her body that happened to occur as she transitioned out of NXT and onto the main roster (breast augmentation), and someone took it out of context and tweeted it to her. She took their out-of-context clip at face value, and you know this because her reply mentions starving, which wouldn't help with breast size unless they were natural. So she clearly misunderstood what he was saying, and other people just assumed he was weight-shaming her and piled on.

    The above is what actually happened. I am in no way saying that his true sentiment wouldn't have made her feel bad either, but that that is not what she was responding to.

    As a professional wrestler and performer, whether you like it or not, her body is a relevant topic of discussion. It's part of her presentation, and that's definitely part of the entire package. He offered his opinion, that he preferred one 'look' over another. It's not one that I particularly share, but that's neither here nor there. I don't think it can really be argued that this is within the realm of reasonable discussion until looks are no longer a factor in the entertainment industry (let's not hold our breath, here). When that is no longer a thing, then this level of outrage might have justification.

    If he had said it differently, would it have still bothered you this much? If he had merely said "I liked her look better in NXT," would you be as upset? Is that off limits? Is it better if he's vague, and more of a problem if he talks specifics? Or does a wrestler's physical appearance not matter in pro wrestling? (And when did that happen? And why didn't I get the memo?)
    Prepare to lose a war of attrition in 10,000 words or more.


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