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Thread: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

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    Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    RELEASE DATE: December 20, 2019
    STUDIO: Walt Disney Pictures, Lucasfilm
    DIRECTOR: J.J. Abrams
    MPAA RATING: N/A
    SCREENWRITERS: J.J. Abrams, Chris Terrio
    STARRING: Daisy Ridley, Keri Russell, John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Adam Driver
    GENRE: Action, Sci-Fi, Adventure
    OFFICIAL WEBSITE: StarWars.com| Facebook| Twitter| Google+

    Plot Summary: "Star Wars: Episode IX" will conclude the third trilogy of Star Wars movies that began with "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" on December 18, 2015 and will continue on December 15 with "Star Wars: The Last Jedi."

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    My anticipation for this isn't anywhere near where it should be.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostface View Post
    My anticipation for this isn't anywhere near where it should be.
    Exactly the same.

    After the Last Jedi, I think this is the first Star Wars film that I am not excited to see.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    I personally loved the Last Jedi and it took the franchise in a direction I look forward to how JJ finishes the story. When I break it down all the major players got stronger some more than others as characters especially Rey and Kylo. In the Force Awakens I thought Kylo was a whining Bitch and he turned the corner with me and how he got to this point in Episode 8. I mean you have your Teacher, want to kill you as you sleep, of course now he trusts no one and wants to see all good end. Sadly though I don't see Kylo surviving Episode 9, you killed your Father and I'm not sure how you come back from that. He'll trust all he can to get Rey on his side, but I feel this Movie is going to be very intense towards that last act and it's going to end in a way we don't see coming.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    The Last Jedi was great, despite what some might say. It was head and shoulders better than The Force Awakens and the entire trilogy that came before this one. It's the final act to this trilogy so It's hard for me not to be excited about it.



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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggy View Post
    The Last Jedi was great, despite what some might say. It was head and shoulders better than The Force Awakens and the entire trilogy that came before this one. It's the final act to this trilogy so It's hard for me not to be excited about it.
    I didn't mind the Last Jedi, but the only interesting characters in it were Luke and Kylo Ren. Rey is a very bland protagonist and I don't care about what happens with her or any of the other good guys.

    The prequels were shit (apart from the creation of prequelmemes), but at least it had the intrigue of Anakin's impending heel turn, and Obi Wan was a good protagonist.

    Both the prequel and sequels are pretty mediocre and neither stands up to any of the original trilogy.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    I didn't mind the Last Jedi, but the only interesting characters in it were Luke and Kylo Ren. Rey is a very bland protagonist and I don't care about what happens with her or any of the other good guys.

    The prequels were shit (apart from the creation of prequelmemes), but at least it had the intrigue of Anakin's impending heel turn, and Obi Wan was a good protagonist.

    Both the prequel and sequels are pretty mediocre and neither stands up to any of the original trilogy.

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    I like to know why you think Rey is a bland protagonist? Is it because she is a nobody that learned the ways of a force without any kind of training and now is equal to the power of Luke when he was in his prime? That little thing sticks with me, but as I thought about it their are people who child prodigies and can learn faster than others and I think that's a good to me that she isn't related to anyone in the past history of Star Wars. I had an opposite opinion of her, wanting to see her be Luke Daughter or Obi-Wan's Granddaughter, but I feel if I feel that was the case it would take away from the importance, and value of her character in my opinion.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadio HoHo View Post
    I like to know why you think Rey is a bland protagonist? Is it because she is a nobody that learned the ways of a force without any kind of training and now is equal to the power of Luke when he was in his prime? That little thing sticks with me, but as I thought about it their are people who child prodigies and can learn faster than others and I think that's a good to me that she isn't related to anyone in the past history of Star Wars. I had an opposite opinion of her, wanting to see her be Luke Daughter or Obi-Wan's Granddaughter, but I feel if I feel that was the case it would take away from the importance, and value of her character in my opinion.
    There is nothing interesting or remarkable about her. She is a character without any sort of struggle or progression through the film and she just wins. What is her personality?

    Compare that with Luke in the original trilogy who loses his aunt and uncle, is seen struggling in battle against a giant snow yeti, would have frozen to death if not for Han Solo, gets his ass kicked by Vader because he isn't ready to face him and loses his hand, watches both his mentors die before him, would have died as a consequence of his actions if it wasn't for Vader. Luke doesn't become a truly powerful Jedi until episode VI and even then he's put in positions to doubt himself and his "victory" over Vader would have only served to send him to the dark side.

    What can I say about Luke's personality? In episode IV he's, brave, conflicted, naive, compassionate. In episode V and VI he is also reckless, angry and vengeful. In episode VIII he's apathetic and bitter.

    Rey is just there. Shes a Mary Sue with not an ounce of personality to her. She's Bella from Twilight where her role is to bring attention to the more interesting characters around her, and unfortunately for the sequel trilogy there isn't a lot of them either.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    I enjoyed the Last Jedi a lot, but I'm not sure anything about it really set me up to be excited about episode IX. They killed off Snoke, they killed off the idea that Rey has any significant parents, they had Rey reject the dark side, they made Finn less interesting, they killed off Luke and yet again a films ends with the resistance on top and the first order's plans in tatters. When you know Episode IX will end with the first order being defeated again (probably via Rey) then it doesn't really interest me what sort of problems the alliance find themselves up against at the start of the movie. It would of made VIII shorter, but I think if you end the movie with Rey and Kylo defeating Snoke and his guards and Kylo offering Rey the chance to team up and you end it on the cliffhanger of whether Rey is going to join the dark side, or does Ben join the light side, or do they just do exactly what happened in the film and go back to fighting each other, then you at least give people something to talk about and theorize on for 2 years. I don't think people are that interested in talking about what's going to happen in IX because they set up no hooks in VIII

    Shock is right about Rey not having any sort of progression or struggle. She's naturally gifted with the force beyond anything we've ever seen, the first time she's in a lightsabre battle she goes toe to toe with the Sith apprentice and survives unscathed despite having no training.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    There is nothing interesting or remarkable about her. She is a character without any sort of struggle or progression through the film and she just wins. What is her personality?

    Compare that with Luke in the original trilogy who loses his aunt and uncle, is seen struggling in battle against a giant snow yeti, would have frozen to death if not for Han Solo, gets his ass kicked by Vader because he isn't ready to face him and loses his hand, watches both his mentors die before him, would have died as a consequence of his actions if it wasn't for Vader. Luke doesn't become a truly powerful Jedi until episode VI and even then he's put in positions to doubt himself and his "victory" over Vader would have only served to send him to the dark side.

    What can I say about Luke's personality? In episode IV he's, brave, conflicted, naive, compassionate. In episode V and VI he is also reckless, angry and vengeful. In episode VIII he's apathetic and bitter.

    Rey is just there. Shes a Mary Sue with not an ounce of personality to her. She's Bella from Twilight where her role is to bring attention to the more interesting characters around her, and unfortunately for the sequel trilogy there isn't a lot of them either.

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    Yeah I heard the Mary Sue comment being used to death and I'm tired of hearing it to be honest. Rey has no struggle or progression the girl herself is going to be struggle to find out who she is in this world. This girl has no memory of her Parents and for that matter her childhood outside of being dropped off by someone when she was a young girl. I do think she is still battling with the force on what side to go on, she has seen that the Jedi are not clean or the fairy tale perfection she was told about them. Which is why she wanted Kylo to aid her in destroying all of this and aid her in her training.

    I get it guys she learned her skills on the fly I was raging it in the Force Awakens Thread like the Nerd I am, but let's be honest her Luke didn't do too much training as well. He trained with Yoda, then left to face Vader and got outclassed in that fight. We never really see if he truly finished his Training and all of sudden he's rocking a Green Lightsaber and people are calling him a Master. Luke was naturally gifted as well and went into a fight with no real knowledge of using a Saber and did better than he should of. If their was something I hated in the Last Jedi, it was Snoke being killed off. I just thought this was the big baddy and I guess theirs a bigger story I think is coming and the I'm so hyped to see how it all ends.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Her not having a memory of her parents isn't a personality trait, it's part of the story. Big big difference.

    Luke Skywalker didn't know his parents either but it didn't define him as a character.

    Also you said it yourself, he trained with Yoda - one of the greatest Jedi Masters in the world, and with Obi Wan Kenobi. Despite that he still got his ass kicked by Vader, then there's more time that passes and once the second battle came along Luke was more ready for him. That's progression. Rey didn't have even a tenth of that and we're going into the third film already.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Her not having a memory of her parents isn't a personality trait, it's part of the story. Big big difference.

    Luke Skywalker didn't know his parents either but it didn't define him as a character.

    Also you said it yourself, he trained with Yoda - one of the greatest Jedi Masters in the world, and with Obi Wan Kenobi. Despite that he still got his ass kicked by Vader, then there's more time that passes and once the second battle came along Luke was more ready for him. That's progression. Rey didn't have even a tenth of that and we're going into the third film already.
    It all depends how to gauge that progression, my gap isn't as wide are you see it when it comes to both characters progression and that's fine. I think Rey in Last Jedi is better in Force Awakens and I think she's going to get plenty of it in Episode 9. What I see happening is first early on we know Leia passed away, Rey dealing with Luke being gone in a physical sense, and being alone again wondering where to go in life. She looks to left and right and see barely anyone around to take out the First Order and now she knows she is the only one who is strong enough take them out. When I brought that up Shock I meant that we can't bag on Rey and her Training and somehow figuring what do in a Saber when Luke was a lost Puppy too out there and was fine when things got heavy.

    Now that I think about it, would it be smart do a Time skip of some kind because right now with Leia and Luke gone, the Rebel Alliance is pretty fucked right now.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadio HoHo View Post
    It all depends how to gauge that progression, my gap isn't as wide are you see it when it comes to both characters progression and that's fine. I think Rey in Last Jedi is better in Force Awakens and I think she's going to get plenty of it in Episode 9. What I see happening is first early on we know Leia passed away, Rey dealing with Luke being gone in a physical sense, and being alone again wondering where to go in life. She looks to left and right and see barely anyone around to take out the First Order and now she knows she is the only one who is strong enough take them out. When I brought that up Shock I meant that we can't bag on Rey and her Training and somehow figuring what do in a Saber when Luke was a lost Puppy too out there and was fine when things got heavy.

    Now that I think about it, would it be smart do a Time skip of some kind because right now with Leia and Luke gone, the Rebel Alliance is pretty fucked right now.
    You are filling in gaps for yourself because all of the struggles you've mentioned haven't been shown in the film. You're writing the film for them. What has Rey struggled with on screen? What has she failed at? What failures has she had that had real consequences for the story? How has she learned from her failures and become a stronger character as a result?

    The problem is that you can't even answer any of the questions because she doesn't fail at anything that changes the story. She's so passive, why should I care about a character like that?

    That is character progression. Not progression in terms of skills, but in terms of personality. We don't care about Luke because of how he becomes good with a lightsaber (nevermind the fact that we see Luke progress from a rookie to a very talented fighter, unlike we saw with Rey). We care about Luke because he's a brilliantly written character that shows a range of actual human emotions and changes through the films (as mentioned in my previous post). Is Rey different at the end of TLJ than she was at the beginning of the film? Not even slightly. The circumstances around her might have changed, but that isn't her becoming a better character. It's exactly the same criticism I'd use to describe Twilight (among other things), is that the protagonist is by far the least interesting character in their own film and is not actually affecting anything or changing who they are.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    You are filling in gaps for yourself because all of the struggles you've mentioned haven't been shown in the film. You're writing the film for them. What has Rey struggled with on screen? What has she failed at? What failures has she had that had real consequences for the story? How has she learned from her failures and become a stronger character as a result?

    The problem is that you can't even answer any of the questions because she doesn't fail at anything that changes the story. She's so passive, why should I care about a character like that?

    That is character progression. Not progression in terms of skills, but in terms of personality. We don't care about Luke because of how he becomes good with a lightsaber (nevermind the fact that we see Luke progress from a rookie to a very talented fighter, unlike we saw with Rey). We care about Luke because he's a brilliantly written character that shows a range of actual human emotions and changes through the films (as mentioned in my previous post). Is Rey different at the end of TLJ than she was at the beginning of the film? Not even slightly. The circumstances around her might have changed, but that isn't her becoming a better character. It's exactly the same criticism I'd use to describe Twilight (among other things), is that the protagonist is by far the least interesting character in their own film and is not actually affecting anything or changing who they are.
    Well I think Rey not being to get to Kylo and bringing to her side is something that she failed at from the past two films. She had this guy second guessing himself in that film and in the end he choose the Dark Side as his lord and savior. Also I don't think she's passive at all, she's smart and wants to make the best decision because her decision good or bad effects everyone. I think that happens to alot of characters in films, to where a character just does something and then say oh I fucked up. Oh hey Luke just go fight Vader and try to get yourself killed, but instead you caused more problems in your life and lose your hand because of it. For sure that progression for sure, but Rey saying okay I'm going to try this and this doesn't work I'm going to fight is smarter thinking to me with what is on the line right now. I see how everyone see's Rey right now, but JJ is in control now and I think he'll blend what we did like in the first two films into the last film and give us something really great to watch.

    Question: Will we outside of Luke as a Force Ghost, other Force Ghosts that isn't Yoda? I'm saying like a Force Ghost Anakin talking to his Grandson trying to pull him back to the light side of something to that effect?

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Heroes and protagonists have to fail at certain points. No piece of entertainment in the history of the world has been good without the protagonist failing. So if she's making the right decisions because she's smart and thinking about the situation perfectly, then that doesn't make for a compelling film and it just makes that character come across as perfect.

    It says a lot that the one thing you came up with as an example of her failing was somebody else's character development. Like I said, she's passive - everything interesting happens around her not because of her, and she's the least interesting main character in her own film.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Heroes and protagonists have to fail at certain points. No piece of entertainment in the history of the world has been good without the protagonist failing. So if she's making the right decisions because she's smart and thinking about the situation perfectly, then that doesn't make for a compelling film and it just makes that character come across as perfect.

    It says a lot that the one thing you came up with as an example of her failing was somebody else's character development. Like I said, she's passive - everything interesting happens around her not because of her, and she's the least interesting main character in her own film.
    You can still be smart and fail and she has, maybe not to your standards, but she's failed. Rey's determination and wanting to bring balance to the world. I mean since you don't like her character and how she's been treated thus far, what can be done in your opinion to fix these problems in Episode 9?

    I know one thing Finn better be used in the right way, they had me go in the first film and dropped the ball with a former Child Solider in a sense going away from everything they have learned. I thought they could of done some unique things with Finn and Captain Phasma and I felt wanting to see more of that relationship. I think Captain Phasma is still alive, but with me wanting this it might not happen with the direction I bet is getting Rey ready to face Kylo.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Heroes and protagonists have to fail at certain points. No piece of entertainment in the history of the world has been good without the protagonist failing.
    To be fair, I believe you didn't care for The Last Jedi, which at the very least has several instances of the protagonists failing. Finn and Rose on the Star Destroyer, basically the entire fleet being wiped out and in a shambles at the end, Rey (this is reaching I admit) not being able to turn Kylo back to the light are just a few off the top of my head. I enjoyed seeing them fail because it helped humanize the characters to a certain extent. Of course I know they're going to win in the end but at the very least the struggle was real here where it wasn't at all in TFA.


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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadio HoHo View Post
    You can still be smart and fail and she has, maybe not to your standards, but she's failed. Rey's determination and wanting to bring balance to the world. I mean since you don't like her character and how she's been treated thus far, what can be done in your opinion to fix these problems in Episode 9?

    I know one thing Finn better be used in the right way, they had me go in the first film and dropped the ball with a former Child Solider in a sense going away from everything they have learned. I thought they could of done some unique things with Finn and Captain Phasma and I felt wanting to see more of that relationship. I think Captain Phasma is still alive, but with me wanting this it might not happen with the direction I bet is getting Rey ready to face Kylo.
    It's been 2 films and I don't think she's improved as a character and I don't find her interesting. I don't know what they could do in episode 9 because like Ed said, they're just going to win in the end, which means even less failure for the good guys. They had two films to make me care about her and failed miserably.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fuji Vice View Post
    To be fair, I believe you didn't care for The Last Jedi, which at the very least has several instances of the protagonists failing. Finn and Rose on the Star Destroyer, basically the entire fleet being wiped out and in a shambles at the end, Rey (this is reaching I admit) not being able to turn Kylo back to the light are just a few off the top of my head. I enjoyed seeing them fail because it helped humanize the characters to a certain extent. Of course I know they're going to win in the end but at the very least the struggle was real here where it wasn't at all in TFA.
    Some of the good guys failed in minor ways, but Rey never did, and as the main protagonist that is a huge issue.

    I didn't mind the Last Jedi, but that was mainly because of Luke and Kylo Ren. Rey is a generic faceless protagonist that I don't care about, and I don't think the supporting cast is very strong either.

    Despite two awful films preceeding it, I was excited for Episode 3 because they at least tried to develop the characters. Was it poorly written and acted? Absolutely, but even at its core you can see that Anakin is a very different person from the start of AotC to the end. Same with Obi Wan, too.

    I can't be excited for Episode 9 when I don't care for any of the characters. I think all of them bar Kylo Ren are boring, and I don't care enough for his recycled "good Jedi/bad Jedi" conflict that has been a part of every Star Wars film since the beginning of time.

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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    It's been 2 films and I don't think she's improved as a character and I don't find her interesting. I don't know what they could do in episode 9 because like Ed said, they're just going to win in the end, which means even less failure for the good guys. They had two films to make me care about her and failed miserably.



    Some of the good guys failed in minor ways, but Rey never did, and as the main protagonist that is a huge issue.

    I didn't mind the Last Jedi, but that was mainly because of Luke and Kylo Ren. Rey is a generic faceless protagonist that I don't care about, and I don't think the supporting cast is very strong either.

    Despite two awful films preceeding it, I was excited for Episode 3 because they at least tried to develop the characters. Was it poorly written and acted? Absolutely, but even at its core you can see that Anakin is a very different person from the start of AotC to the end. Same with Obi Wan, too.

    I can't be excited for Episode 9 when I don't care for any of the characters. I think all of them bar Kylo Ren are boring, and I don't care enough for his recycled "good Jedi/bad Jedi" conflict that has been a part of every Star Wars film since the beginning of time.

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    I mean who is saying that the ending of all of this ends perfectly like the Return of the Jedi with everyone happy and dancing it up by the Fire? I'm sure the Rebel Alliance wins, but alot of people are going to die and Rey decides the order of things. I mean we knew Luke was going to win and help the Empire go down, but look at the path in the last Movie that happened to get to that point. Don't sell Rey short to have a great path as well to finish off the First Order, you guys are selling her up the River before even seeing the film. I personally have no problem with the Good Jedi vs Bad Jedi conflict because I like seeing how they got to that point. If you've read the Comics, they have been plenty of Jedi who turned to the Sith for reasons they thought was genuine and to me that's compelling to watch.

    Which is why I wished they used the Grey Jedi with Rey, because she could of done what Mace Windu did using the Light and Dark and that would be something unique that alot of people never heard about unless you read the Comics.

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  20. #20
    Brick Shithouse
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    Re: Star Wars: Episode IX (2019)

    I'm selling her up the river after seeing two films already and seeing zero reason to stay invested in it.

    People dying in films only matters when you care about the people dying. It's the difference between Harry Potter and Twilight, and I know which one is most similar to the sequel trilogy.

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