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Thread: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    No, I do not read those.

    If you don't see the problem with policing what people are allowed to say in private, then I don't know what to tell you.

    To answer your question, we already have laws around conspiracy for murder and other planning of attacks as well as laws around inciting racial or ethnic hatred, so if they felt it was a legitimate threat then yes and he can do so now under current law. But if your muslim neighbour happens to overhear one neighbour say to another "fuck the muslims", then sorry, that shouldn't be a legal matter, unpleasant as it may be to hear.
    The problem you have is that you think someone would legitimately call the cops for that. Not to mention that wouldnt even be considered under this bill either.


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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Will you guys get arrested if youre overheard saying OK Boomer from the comfort of your home now?

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Chavez View Post
    Will you guys get arrested if youre overheard saying OK Boomer from the comfort of your home now?
    Only if Dak hears it, gets offended and phones the police.


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  4. #824
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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    I'll concede I don't know the details of this bill being proposed, I just saw the story and thought "wow that's stupid" and thought it was worth commenting on. How does this law differ from existing laws on inciting hatred towards minorities?

    I would not doubt for one moment there would be some people who would use the law in the example I gave or similar situations. If it is the law, they'd have the right to.

    I don't think the SNP are the Stasi but any Government that brings in laws on free speech should be viewed with a degree of suspicion.

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    I'll concede I don't know the details of this bill being proposed, I just saw the story and thought "wow that's stupid" and thought it was worth commenting on. How does this law differ from existing laws on inciting hatred towards minorities?

    I would not doubt for one moment there would be some people who would use the law in the example I gave or similar situations. If it is the law, they'd have the right to.

    I don't think the SNP are the Stasi but any Government that brings in laws on free speech should be viewed with a degree of suspicion.
    It becomes blurry at this point and I dont get the need for the bill as I think there are more pressing matters. Youre right in that conspiracy charges etc already fall under law. The SNP have a boner for getting people done for 'hate speech' so I assume theyve chased the bill so they can clearly define hate speech more and implement Bracadale's shit. As I said, the SNP are obsessed with deterring this stuff because of Celtic/Rangers shit and general Islamophobia in this place. I will absolutely admit they go too far with some of this stuff (Celtic fans have been arrested for singing the Irish national anthem at Rangers/oter fans...)

    I really dont think many people would be phoning police for things like that here, honestly. But yeah, the bill is designed for stuff that can be proven beyond reasonable doubt. A he said/she said without substance is not going to get attention from the Police no matter what the law is. It'd be fobbed off.

    It just seems to me that the people who are really really upset about this are feeling attacked because they are interpreting this as a law against being a racist bigot in your own house.

    The Bill will be a complete non story eventually as people realise it's not what it's being built up to be.


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  6. #826
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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    So with the US election over I think it's worth considering how this affects the UK and Ireland going forward. The most clear thing is Brexit. Biden, even before getting the democratic nominee, said that any future trade deals with the UK would depend on the UK adhering to the Good Friday Agreement, which is a huge blow to the idea of a hard Brexit. He was also part of the Obama admin that said the UK would be back of the line for any trade deals. I think this is a massive blow to one of the main arguments of Brexit (that we could forge better trade deals with the USA). I don't think we'd have gotten a good deal out of Trump, but at least there'd be enough blurriness to convince people it was going to be good. A Biden presidency is bad for Brexit, and bad for Boris.

    The other thing is that it may just show a trend away from right wing populism and nationalism. These things do tend to trend together, as we saw with Brexit and Trump followed by Boris all within a couple of years of each other. Now America has shifted back to a more centrist, global administration. I think this trend will carry over to the UK too. I think this is excellent news for Starmer who in many ways is like Biden - berated as being too far right by people who would want to see him further left, but a sane, safe centrist candidate feels like a good strategy for Starmer and Labour if they are wanting re-election. Whether that will carry forward to votes by the time the next election comes along, we'll see. Long time before then. I'd be optimistic if I were a Labour supporter though - Starmer is doing well in polls, and Boris' coronavirus response has pissed off not only the people against him, but a really significant portion of his own base too. Like I said, it's a very long way away from knowing how this will affect our election.

    All I can hope is that Biden's victory is at least some suggestion that we are moving away from the utter madness of right wing populism as it has proven to be a total disaster in times of crisis.







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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Pretty much agree with everything you've said. They'll be a relationship still, for sure. But Boris would have preferred to have Trump on side for the next 3 years (should he stick around that long).



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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Boris doesn't have any specific beliefs so he will accommodate Biden and suck up his arse like he did Trump. Doubt Biden will accept it though.

    Very interesting that there's going to be a President who hates the sight of orange on St Patrick's Day and a Prime Minister who has no respect whatsoever for the Irish. I cannot fucking wait for Boris to realign himself with the GFA and the EU.

    Nice to see another u-turn on the school meals shit. lol.
    Last edited by RainShaker; 11-08-2020 at 01:04 PM.


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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RainShaker View Post

    Nice to see another u-turn on the school meals shit. lol.
    Notice how they attempted to bury it behind the election stuff too?


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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    In a strange world of continuous positive news, Dominic Cummings will be gone by Christmas.

    About 6 months too late, but good riddence to the smug twat.

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    And he looks nothing like Cumberbatch too. What a disappointment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diksting
    You can't have a reasonable discussion about serious topics with people like Marketh around.

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Been a fan of Starmer's push and main event run but this Corbyn stuff is going to destroy him. Can't believe he's not giving him the whip back. This is the type of shit that keeps the Tories in place.


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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RainShaker View Post
    Been a fan of Starmer's push and main event run but this Corbyn stuff is going to destroy him. Can't believe he's not giving him the whip back. This is the type of shit that keeps the Tories in place.
    I think Starmer's handled it pretty well. He has played it down to some extent, because he (rightly) doesn't want this to continue to be a hot topic for the party and create division within. I would fully expect Corbyn will be allowed to be a MP again at some point, but if Starmer caves in now the nutbag Corbyn-ista part of the party, they will forever have him in their pocket. They are the ones who are creating division and dissent in Labour by hanging on to a deeply unpopular candidate for ideological reasons. The sooner the noise is stopped being made about it, the quicker he'll be allowed back in and normal business will resume.

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    I think Starmer's handled it pretty well. He has played it down to some extent, because he (rightly) doesn't want this to continue to be a hot topic for the party and create division within. I would fully expect Corbyn will be allowed to be a MP again at some point, but if Starmer caves in now the nutbag Corbyn-ista part of the party, they will forever have him in their pocket. They are the ones who are creating division and dissent in Labour by hanging on to a deeply unpopular candidate for ideological reasons. The sooner the noise is stopped being made about it, the quicker he'll be allowed back in and normal business will resume.

    I don't know what the right choice is for him in the situation in all honesty but I think he's making this into a bigger deal by not giving Corbyn the whip back. Obviously understand that there's two competing factions and neither are going to be pleased but I feel like this route is really just going to sew more division than unity in the party. Corbyn will sit as an independent MP right? Just feels like this is going to end in a split because this issue is being pushed further and further to a point where there's no good or peaceful outcome. I thought the issue was dead and buried yesterday but this has just brought it back.

    Haven't read the report yet but I'm going to take a very big (yuge as Former President Trump would say) guess that Jeremy Corbyn is not named as an anti-semite in it nor to have broken any rules of the party and instead is being punished because he is considered to represent those in the party that are anti-semites and bigoted.

    Obviously Starmer will have his reasons for whatever he does but I really can't be arsed with Labour imploding again over this shit and letting the Tories get away with it. I agree that the Corbynistas are unlikely to let this go and will probably drag it on moreso than the other side. Think they should find a new guy to be the face of their movement rather than Corbyn but being a lefty Labour supporter is basically saying you're a bigoted anti-semite to some so fuck knows. Just worried this situation is going to get used against Starmer because the focus will be on him and he won't be able to say anything about the Tories etc.


    edit: should add that Corbyn's obviously a moron for saying anything in the first place
    Last edited by RainShaker; 11-18-2020 at 01:04 PM.


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  15. #835
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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    I can't imagine the party breaking up just because of Jeremy Corbyn, but if the fruit loops decide to break off and form their own doomed-to-fail party then good riddance.

    Long time to go between now and the next potential election, I don't think this is that big of a deal. But Labour supporters and politicians LOVE inner-party politics for reasons people with normal social lives struggle to fathom.

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    I can't imagine the party breaking up just because of Jeremy Corbyn, but if the fruit loops decide to break off and form their own doomed-to-fail party then good riddance.

    Long time to go between now and the next potential election, I don't think this is that big of a deal. But Labour supporters and politicians LOVE inner-party politics for reasons people with normal social lives struggle to fathom.
    Maybe not a proper break but is it really a good strategy for Starmer to go after a faction in his own party or, atleast, enable others to do so? For some reason, the centre of Labour fights harder against the left wing of its own party more than the Tories.

    We'll see what happens. I suppose the Corbyn vs Starmer thing was always going to happen eventually and probably best to deal with it now. Just would prefer a bit more unity than this shit but can't complain, Starmer's battered Boris most of the time.


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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    I think Keir's handled it as well as possible. The anti-Semitism stuff hung over most of Corbyn's leadership, he cannot afford to be seen as lax about it.

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