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    World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread



    June 14-July 15 in Russia



    England World Cup Squad
    Quote Originally Posted by bbc sport
    Goalkeepers: Jack Butland (Stoke), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Nick Pope (Burnley).
    Defenders: Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Fabian Delph (Manchester City), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Harry Maguire (Leicester), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Tottenham Hotspur), Kyle Walker (Manchester City), Ashley Young (Manchester United).
    Midfielders: Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Jesse Lingard (Manchester United), Ruben Loftus-Cheek (Chelsea).
    Forwards: Harry Kane (Tottenham), Marcus Rashford (Manchester United), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), Jamie Vardy (Leicester), Danny Welbeck (Arsenal).

    Standby: Lewis Cook (Bournemouth), Tom Heaton (Burnley), Adam Lallana (Liverpool), Jake Livermore (West Brom), James Tarkowski (Burnley).

    Good young squad. I predicted almost the same squad. We aren't going to win it regardless of who we take so it’s a good opportunity for some of the young players to get experience in the World Cup.
    The attack is good. Way too many defenders when Dier and Delph can also play there. Midfield is light. Would've liked to see Wilshere in instead of the extra RB. Southgate’s taking 3 RB’s when it should be only two. Southgate’s picked Delph as one of his midfielders even though he’s been playing left back for Man City.

    Joe Hart, Jack Wilshere and Chris Smalling are the big names that miss out. Surprised they didn’t take Hart as third choice because of his experience. I don’t mind that he misses out. Sucks for him that he doesn’t even make stand by. Heaton hasn’t played for 8 months yet he’s on stand by.

    Wilshere doesn't even get ahead of Livermore or Cook on standby. What a joke. Yeah he’s a liability but his creativity could have made a real difference. Shelvy deserved a spot on the standby list. Unlucky Lallana. He has hardly played all season but if he was fit for most of the season, he would be in the main squad. Bertrand unlucky to miss out, would take him over Rose. Happy for Trent Alexander Arnold and Loftus Cheek. I don’t know much about TAA, he’s uncapped but heard he’s having a great season at Liverpool.

    Not a World Cup winning team but I can see us getting to the Quarter Finals at best.


    Brazil World Cup Squad

    Quote Originally Posted by bbcsport
    Goalkeepers: Alisson (Roma), Ederson (Manchester City), Cassio (Corinthians).
    Quote Originally Posted by bbcsport
    Defenders: Danilo (Manchester City), Fagner (Corinthians), Marcelo (Real Madrid), Filipe Luis (Atletico Madrid), Thiago Silva, Marquinhos (both PSG), Miranda (Inter Milan), Pedro Geromel (Gremio).
    Midfielders: Casemiro (Real Madrid), Fernandinho (Manchester City), Paulinho (Barcelona), Fred (Shakhtar Donetsk), Renato Augusto (Beijing Guoan), Philippe Coutinho (Barcelona), Willian (Chelsea), Douglas Costa (Juventus).
    Forward: Neymar (PSG), Taison (Shakhtar Donetsk), Gabriel Jesus (Manchester City), Roberto Firmino (Liverpool).
    Strong squad. Much better than the 2014 squad. Brazil aren’t what they used to be but they’re one of my fave teams. Would like either Brazil or France to go all the way. Alex Sandro and Fabinho unlucky to miss out. I still think it will be one of Germany, Spain or France to win the World Cup.
    Last edited by Order; 05-16-2018 at 01:23 PM.



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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    I’m not sure why 6 full backs have been taken by England. Especially Delph and Rose over Bertrand. You can sort of see the reasoning behind 3 RBs with Walker looking likely to play CB but you still don’t need 3 as Walker is the RB cover.

    Welbeck is only in on past England form but I think England could have given Sessegnon the nod and took something unexpected and exciting to the WC.

    Rose/Delph/Welbeck/Arnold out

    Bertrand/Sessegnon/Wilshere/Tarkowski in



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    World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread



    June 14-July 15 in Russia

    Keep all discussion about the tournament in here and let's start with the England squad announcement shall we?



    Goalkeepers: Jack Butland (Stoke), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Nick Pope (Burnley).

    Defenders: Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Fabian Delph (Manchester City), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Harry Maguire (Leicester), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Tottenham Hotspur), Kyle Walker (Manchester City), Ashley Young (Manchester United).

    Midfielders: Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Jesse Lingard (Manchester United), Ruben Loftus-Cheek (Chelsea).

    Forwards: Harry Kane (Tottenham), Marcus Rashford (Manchester United), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), Jamie Vardy (Leicester), Danny Welbeck (Arsenal).

    Standby: Lewis Cook (Bournemouth), Tom Heaton (Burnley), Adam Lallana (Liverpool), Jake Livermore (West Brom), James Tarkowski (Burnley).
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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    Nick Pope would be my starting GK but I see Butland being first choice..

    The squad looks good in parts (and bad in others) , but I worry if everyone will be able to work together or not.
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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    No chance Pope should be the starting keeper. Fine with Butland or Pickford though.

    Also extremely happy to see no Wilshere in the squad. The most overrated player of his generation who offers nothing.
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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Order View Post
    Also extremely happy to see no Wilshere in the squad. The most overrated player of his generation who offers nothing.
    Get this man a beer.

    No major quibbles with the squad personally. Looking forward to the forum sweepstake again though!



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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    Good call on one thread, always thought we used to go OTT with individual threads for each group that would have a few posts in. Less work for us Order! I have mentioned several times to Nash about running a sweeps again because silly username changes are a WC tradition now.

    On the England squad. I think it's what I expected and I don't see an awful lot wrong with it.

    I'm beyond relieved to see that Gareth has finally cut Hart from the squad because he's been utter shit for West Ham and people shouldn't get into this squad on reputation alone (more on that later). What does worry me is the form of a #1, crybaby Butland has been relegated and I can't recall him having too many standout games for Stoke, and Pickford has hardly been in sparkling form for Everton this season. Pope's done well but I think he's only here as a #3, I think Pickford is the #1.

    The defence looks weird when you look into how many fullbacks are there, but really for the sake of evaluating the squad you have to look at Kyle Walker as a center back because that's where Southgate is looking to play him, so Trent and Trips are the two right backs and then Rose is your #1 left back with a couple of options in Delph and Young as back up who can be mids too. I actually think Delph is the backup CM for either Dier or Henderson if they are missing out, rather than a third left back - his versatility has probably made a Livermore callup unnecessary. CBs is where I have a real worry in this squad because Cahill hasn't had a good season and Maguire is overrated.

    Mids are pretty much what I expected. Happy enough with Dier and Hendo (think I'd make him captain) holding the fort and hopefully allowing Dele and Sterling to reproduce their club form higher up the pitch. Lingard's is handy to have because he has goals in him and I'm really happy to see that Loftus Cheek has his rewards for leaving the Chelsea roadblock youth setup by getting into the squad. I actually thought Livermore would be in the squad because Southgate kept giving him chance after chance despite how bad our season was and I think he did well in the games he played, but when it comes down to it why waste a space when Delph or RLC can just slide in. Is anyone who isn't a Newcastle fan unhappy to see Shelvey overlooked? I think we look a little short of creativity without Ox and Lallana. Really wish Lallana's season had been better because there were times in recent years where I thought he was the MOTM in most England games I was watching.

    No problems at all with Kane, Vardy and Rashford, I think those are the 3 everyone expected in. Welbeck is the meh pick for a 4th forward, his career hasn't progressed at all since the 2014 World Cup . It's hardly a make or break pick as I expect England to start with 1 striker so the 4th striker isn't going to get much of a look in. I wouldn't really know who to pick instead of him, Callum Wilson is maybe the only other guy I would of considered. I totally disagree with Syko about Sessegnon, the kid is 17 years old and we do not have a good record recently of taking young players to a World Cup and them gaining anything by going other than ramping up expectations e.g. Theo in 2006, Ox in 2014. The WC isn't a place for untested potential, it's for people who can do it now.

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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    Im with MC - Popes the best option. So who are Shake and I cheering for first ... Tunisia I think?
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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post

    No problems at all with Kane, Vardy and Rashford, I think those are the 3 everyone expected in. Welbeck is the meh pick for a 4th forward, his career hasn't progressed at all since the 2014 World Cup . It's hardly a make or break pick as I expect England to start with 1 striker so the 4th striker isn't going to get much of a look in. I wouldn't really know who to pick instead of him, Callum Wilson is maybe the only other guy I would of considered. I totally disagree with Syko about Sessegnon, the kid is 17 years old and we do not have a good record recently of taking young players to a World Cup and them gaining anything by going other than ramping up expectations e.g. Theo in 2006, Ox in 2014. The WC isn't a place for untested potential, it's for people who can do it now.
    I think Sessegnon is a completely different situation to Walcott/Ox. Sessegnon played every game this year in a successful side who may still earn promotion which is a massive boost to the player personally. Walcott hadn’t played for 5 months whilst Chamberlain played just 16 games.

    Still cant believe he’s taken 6 FBs regardless of where they ‘can’ play.

    On the the plus side happy to see Loftus-Cheek get a place and I hope he becomes an integral part of the next Chelsea managers plans.



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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    So he's playing 343...problem I see there is the lack of pace at CB. You play Walker on the right of the 3 when he's so used to attacking you can leave yourself a bit short as the top teams will take advantage of that. There's no way he isn't going to play Cahill and Stones so if you shift Walker to RWB, you have to play Jones or Maguire who aren't the quickest so yeah kind of left themselves open there.

    Central Midfield looks a bit light in terms of quality if one of your starters get injured, but the speed from wide and up top will frighten a few teams. Kane will score goals, so will Vardy given the chance. I think it'll have to be down to Lingard to give them that direct pace and goal threat later on/on the counter like he's done this season for Man Utd.

    Welbeck at the other striking option is just stupid...I know there's a bit of a lack of strength in depth with strikers at the moment but I think I counted 5/6 English eligible players that scored more than Welbeck this season

    Quarter finals at best methinks.
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Sykotic View Post
    I’m not sure why 6 full backs have been taken by England. Especially Delph and Rose over Bertrand. You can sort of see the reasoning behind 3 RBs with Walker looking likely to play CB but you still don’t need 3 as Walker is the RB cover.

    Welbeck is only in on past England form but I think England could have given Sessegnon the nod and took something unexpected and exciting to the WC.

    Rose/Delph/Welbeck/Arnold out

    Bertrand/Sessegnon/Wilshere/Tarkowski in
    Just curious how much you've seen of Welbeck and Wilshire play for Arsenal this season? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I can definitely see the logic of choosing Welbeck and not Wilshire. The latter is a bit higher on my "faves" list.... but Welbeck is consistently hard-working and versatile. He doesn't mind coming off the bench, he creates a bit, and while he's not a great finisher by any means, he can score goals. Also seems to be a good personality to have around, by most reports.

    Wilshire is less versatile, lacks pace to be really effective higher up the pitch like he used to be, remains injury-prone, and he's not a consistent effort guy. He is also sometimes petulant and acts out a bit. Might be less of a positive influence on the squad, to be honest. I have a soft spot for the guy, as most Gooners do, but I can see plenty of reasons for a manager to not want to take Wilshire.

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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Just curious how much you've seen of Welbeck and Wilshire play for Arsenal this season? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I can definitely see the logic of choosing Welbeck and not Wilshire. The latter is a bit higher on my "faves" list.... but Welbeck is consistently hard-working and versatile. He doesn't mind coming off the bench, he creates a bit, and while he's not a great finisher by any means, he can score goals. Also seems to be a good personality to have around, by most reports.

    Wilshire is less versatile, lacks pace to be really effective higher up the pitch like he used to be, remains injury-prone, and he's not a consistent effort guy. He is also sometimes petulant and acts out a bit. Might be less of a positive influence on the squad, to be honest. I have a soft spot for the guy, as most Gooners do, but I can see plenty of reasons for a manager to not want to take Wilshire.
    I can see why he hasn’t taken Wilshere due to the reasons mentioned. But you look at Dier and Henderson and you don’t have a player that can create from deep. Alli can probably do the job but 1-11 you expect him to be in the front three with Sterling/Kane.

    Responsibility of this kind of role falls to RLC now.

    As for Welbeck he scores the odd goal but that role in the squad, off the bench even sees him behind Lingard and Rashford as sub options.



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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Sykotic View Post
    I can see why he hasn’t taken Wilshere due to the reasons mentioned. But you look at Dier and Henderson and you don’t have a player that can create from deep. Alli can probably do the job but 1-11 you expect him to be in the front three with Sterling/Kane.

    Responsibility of this kind of role falls to RLC now.

    As for Welbeck he scores the odd goal but that role in the squad, off the bench even sees him behind Lingard and Rashford as sub options.
    I've heard the deep-lying creator suggestion for Wilshire quite a few times. It makes sense, given his lack of pace now. I've done it in FM lol. But he never really plays there and I've always figured there has to be a reason. I wanna say Arsenal did play him a bit deeper in one or two of the Carabao Cup matches this year, but I am not 100% certain.

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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    Welbeck does work hard but when you look at the fact there's Rashford, Lingard, Sterling and Vardy that can supply the pace in the channels it does seem a bit of a strange decision.
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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    Welbeck does work hard but when you look at the fact there's Rashford, Lingard, Sterling and Vardy that can supply the pace in the channels it does seem a bit of a strange decision.
    Its kinda like the versatile fullbacks.... the glut of versatile forward / wide forward players is a touch odd.

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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    Feel like Bertrand and Smalling are the only two players who have any real reason to feel aggrieved. Rose and Stones are lucky imo - Southgate is adamant he picks on form & playing time yet they seem to be the exceptions to the rule.

    Trent can play CMF also, so his versatility along with Delph & Young is why they were picked I'd say. Useful to have players like that in tournaments.

    Has to be Butland starting realistically, as none of the other two have any experience. On form, Pope obviously starts but can't really go with purely that.

    All in all, bang average squad.

    And he scores goals...!




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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    I'm in the minority but I think yous have a quality squad. The forward line should scare any team (though I would be concerned with Kane's form - I know he's been scoring but he has looked sluggish since his injury).

    Midfield is fine, not going to set the world on fire but won't cost anyone the tournament.

    Defence is the worry. Butland is prone to a brain fart or two so I would go for Pickford as number one. Rose and Walker are class with really good back up. Centre backs are the big weakness. Maguire has quietly had a shocking second half of the season, Stones is 4th choice at City now, Cahill is absolute dogshit. How Lascelles can't get a call up is beyond me since he's been better than them all (except maybe the Burnley defenders).

    Pickford, Rose, Stones, Maguire, Walker, Dier, Henderson, Alli, Rashford, Sterling, Kane would be my starting xi.

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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    England squad is a mixed bag. I like the freshness of some of the picks Southgate has gone for, great to see some players in there purely on merit and form ahead of players who under other managers would have been in on their reputation.

    The 3 goalkeepers are the 3 that should be going. Hart absolutely didn't deserve to be in there as he's been terrible this season. He was average at Torino last season too so he's been lucky to hold the #1 jersey this long to be honest. It's a bit of a shame that he wasn't dropped earlier in order to give more opportunities for Butland and Pickford to gain more international experience. then again, England qualified predominantly with Hart playing most of the games so can't argue too much there. I think it's a big shame that Pope hasn't got a single cap to his name yet. He should have been given a game in the last batch of friendlies when he was called up. On form he should be England #1 as he's by far been the best keeper this past season but he won't be anything but #3 due to having no international experience. Butland has had a torrid season with Stoke so no chance he should be #1 IMO. Pickford is therefore default #1 for me.

    I agree with the majority about the defence. Lots of full backs in there and not enough CB's. I'm disappointed that Tarkowski isn't in there as he deserved a chance. Rose is extremely lucky to be in the squad as he's not been Spurs #1 at LB this season as is Cahill who again hasn't been a regular for Chelsea. both have struggled for form and fitness. 2 examples of the exception to the rule when Southgate said he was picking on current form.
    I think Ashley Young should be the starting LWB, forget about Rose. Alex-Arnold is uncapped but you can't argue that he's had a fantastic season. Give him a chance at RWB I say. I'd then play Walker, Stones and then I think Jones would have to be the other CB as he's the quicker of him and Cahill and has had the better season.

    In midfield there's a lack of creativity through the middle. Dier should start in the DM role as a defensive shield alongside Ruben Loftus-Cheek, who has had a stellar season and deserves a shot here, to provide a more box to box option with some creativity. I think he'll be on the bench though with Ali preferred alongside Sterling, who's had a fantastic season, and probably Lingard, who also has had a great season and has added more goals to his game. I see them playing in a three ahead of Dier and behind Kane who will be the lone striker.

    Strikers are pretty much straight forward and are correct choices. Welbeck is questionable due to him having a so-so season and he was firmly 3rd choice behind Lacazette and Giroud and then Lacazette and Auba in the second half of the season. You can't fault that he works very hard though and his England form has always been better than his club form. He'll be 4th choice striker here though no doubt, but he can play wide too with his pace and I think that's where we're more likely to see him. Kane will be the lone striker with Vardy as backup. Rashford and Welbeck will be backup but they have versatility as they both play wide too so they'll provide options from the bench in wide positions predominantly I think.

    So team for me will be:

    Pickford
    Alex-Arnold, Walker, Jones, Stones, Young
    Dier
    Lingard, Ali, Sterling
    Kane

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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    This is a perfectly cromulent squad in my eyes.

    I was a bit underwhelmed when I read through it, but in seeing the stand-by list I realise there weren’t that many alternative options, especially without Oxlade-Chamberlain and Lallana. Southgate has (in my eyes, wisely) decided that he wanted to use players he had in previous squads, which means Shelvey, Sessengnon and Lascelles were never getting a chance. So he should know exactly what to expect from them. I’m okay with that. The only exception is Alexander-Arnold, but he is playing for a team that a) have got to the Champions League final, and hence he’s got top level experience despite his age, and b) has a similar ethos to the one Southgate wants to use.

    Also, it’s easy to forget that we mostly look at it from the point of view of “who are the best players?”, where things like personality are equally important in reality. I’d say Hart, Wilshere and Shelvey missing out is perhaps more to do with that than their talent. Likewise for Welbeck getting in.

    This is a young and flexible group that know Southgate, and he knows them. It’s not a squad to win the tournament, but we don’t have any combination of players that can.


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    Re: World Cup 2018 Discussion Thread

    Honestly not sure why I’d say this as I’m Welsh but Southgate picking players he knows is a shitty excuse.

    How many games does he go to a season? Well over a 100. He should know who is decent and a right fit for the squad. Players like Lascelles have leadership qualities you can’t develop.

    He also doesn’t need 3 RBs regardless of what formation. Experimenting Walker in a back three could be his big downfall. Arnold is there for experience as Trippier will get the nod in a RWB role.

    Better off taking an extra CM as you don’t need all 6 of Walker, Arnold, Trippier, Delph, Rose & Young. Especially when Young can play both sides.



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