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Thread: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

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    NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    This college basketball scandal looks like it's on the verge of exploding.

    I wouldn't bet on Sean Miller coaching Arizona for much longer if at all:

    https://www.si.com/college-basketbal...-deandre-ayton

    The question needs to be asked again.

    Should college athletes be paid?

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    Re: Looks like he's gone

    Yeah, I'm on the side of them getting paid for sure. Really might as well stop acting like they're there for any other reason than to go pro, pay them and avoid these constant scandals.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Changed the title to something a little less on the click-bait side of things.

    In answer to the question, yes, they should have been paying these guys and gals something years ago. It's absolutely ridiculous that the schools make small fortunes off of the backs of these players and don't give them any compensation other than a free education. Admittedly that's something but I don't think it's anywhere near what they should be doing.

    However, I don't think they should necessarily get the money right away but rather it go into a pool that's then distributed to them upon graduation. That way it can be invested while they're still in school, make a small return and then they'll have starter money for when they finish their studies. Obviously the 1% of athletes that go on to the pro's won't really need this but it'll sure help out all the rest that have to rely on their degrees to succeed.

    As an aside, I definitely don't feel bad for this Arizona coach. If he's fired he's looking at a $10 million payout.


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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Good call on changing the thread title, Fuji. Was gonna comment last night and made a note that its rather misleading, which will mean some people will miss it.

    I'm not sure there is any good argument for college athletes remaining "amateur" and unpaid. The "they get an education" idea is pretty much the fallback, it seems. But the "for profit" model of education has been fully embraced in almost every way, and these schools make hundreds of millions of dollars from these athletes every year. But somehow, for some reasons, traditional ideals must prevail in this. The argument is even weaker when you look at college football and realize that the players be doing long-term, permanent damage to their brains from playing the game and unlike the NFL, the "they are getting rich" argument isn't there.

    Not sure I fully love the proposal, Fooj. The investment model makes sense in a lot of ways, but part of the argument for player payment is to allow them to function more normally. College athletes can't work during the school year and get very little to live on, which is pat of what leads to them taking some extra benefits. Its not even about being able to afford a flashy car, but go out for a meal with friends and/or girlfriend/boyfriend on a regular basis. If someone buys that meal for you, its flirting with "extra benefits". So I like the idea of them getting some amount during the year, and the remainder from that investment.

    I don't think players should get rich, necessarily. Given the schools are, there is a legit argument there, but a share of the pie is pretty basic capitalism.

    Paying players won't necessarily get rid of recruiting violations, like what is Miller accused of. But it takes away an element of it, and moves the NCAA out of the 1800s.


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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    I don't know I used to be one who was for NCAA players being paid, but now I'm not so sure.

    I'm in college myself, a D3 school no less. I imagine only D1 athletes would get paid. But it would even only glorify those D1 schools even more. Players would be even more self righteous and entitled.

    If they're good enough they'll make the NFL and make more in their signing bonus than most of us will in a lifetime.

    But yeah. I'm paying 30k tuition a year for my school. These guys are getting an education and degree for absolutely free solely because they are athletic. That in it's own right makes me feel envious I'm not going to be dishonest about that.

    So not only do you want to give these guys free education that could be costing them like 100k, you want to pay them as well? Pay them to go to school?

    In what world does that makes sense where we are paying the kids to go to school. If the NFL allowed them to skip school then sure. Or if the NFL had some sort of development league that paid for their education and paid them to play for their development teams then sure I can see that too. But I don't know just straight up paying them
    ..

    What's the line? Is it just D1 football? Does D1 girl's softball get paid players too? D2 players? We already treat these athletes like they're Gods, I just can't get behind paying them so they can get a degree whenever I'm going to be in piles of student loan debt myself and I've worked academically harder than most of them.

    Only positive thing I can think of from it is maybe it'll being back the NCAA football video games back, which I would absolutely kill for.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Most of these colleges are not making a whole lot off of their athletics department. Building and maintaining a stadium is expensive. Recruiting and feeding a team isn't cheap either. Don't confuse revenue for profit. http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...profit-sports/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/spo...=.658bfc9bff44 Granted, these are from a few years ago, but things probably haven't changed that much.

    Nobody is making these folks go to college. They are getting not only free education and board, but many are also getting access to world class training facilities and national exposure.

    If the colleges must pay the athletes, they should at least keep the playing field level by putting a cap on the amount a team can pay. This payment should come upon graduation.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Joe View Post
    Most of these colleges are not making a whole lot off of their athletics department. Building and maintaining a stadium is expensive. Recruiting and feeding a team isn't cheap either. Don't confuse revenue for profit. http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...profit-sports/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/spo...=.658bfc9bff44 Granted, these are from a few years ago, but things probably haven't changed that much.

    Nobody is making these folks go to college. They are getting not only free education and board, but many are also getting access to world class training facilities and national exposure.

    If the colleges must pay the athletes, they should at least keep the playing field level by putting a cap on the amount a team can pay. This payment should come upon graduation.
    Those points are hard to argue and it highlights how trciky this situation is. The athletes SHOULD get paid because ultimately it's their performance that brings in fans and money. But, deciding how they should get paid, how much, and under what circumstances is very difficult. Especially when you consider the difference in the sizes and incomes of colleges, even in D1 there's a biiiig difference in the University of Kentucky and my local Stephen F. Austin University... Then there's the fact that a lot of NBA prospects have no intention of actually finishing college which I think is fair when you already know that there's a few mil waiting on you in the NBA.

    If they can't work out a sensible way to compensate the college players, I would hope that at some point the NBA just ditches the one and done, allows players to come straight into the league from high school, invests in and expands the G-League to let those players who need an extra year or two to get the experience and training they need, while getting a decent check. That would likely be best for the league, players and fans, as it would make the G-League a lot more entertaining and meaningful, and it would allow the guys coming out of high school to consistently face high level competition rather than having several games a year against much less talented teams. The remaining players that don't go to the NBA or G-League can go to college or overseas to put in work until they're at the necessary level. Theoretically most of the players worth bribing/compensating would go straight into the NBA or G-League, which could cut down on the scandals hopefully.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    These guys are getting an education and degree for absolutely free solely because they are athletic.
    Come on dude, you act like they were just born like that. College level athletes have to bust their asses for YEARS to be good enough to make a team, let alone get a full ride scholarship. Nothing stopping just about anyone else from going to school for free if you can put in the work for it.

    You say if they're good enough to make the pros, they will, but what about all the guys and girls who give their body to the game and get hurt in a way that costs them that pro career? Sucks for them, guess they lost the lottery?



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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    I have gone back and forth on the idea of paying college students but then I have looked at other schools like Penn St, Notre Dame, Duke, and Florida St. You would be paying an assload just for one year of school. Sully is paying 30k a year in a div 3 the bigger the school the more it costs. 40-50k a year for the big name schools which will get you looked at faster unless you are a God at a smaller school (Dennis Rodman- Little school in Oklahoma I believe). They get it all free. If they do their full comitment you are talking 4-5 years of schooling. So anywhere from. 100k- 200k of free money that the rest of us will be paying til we die.

    Now if you want to pay them. Give them like 6k a semester for other things but you are in school to learn and do school work in the course of study you chose.

    Would it be done on all programs who get scholarships or just the athletes? You get scholarships for sciences and maths why not pay them too. Where would it stop and is it fair to all the students.

    This is where the conundrum comes in because then if you start paying them the tuition will rise even more and I am dead set against free college because that is another tax I have to pay for because free schooling works out so well when a big chunks of kids now dont show up to school on a daily basis now for high school. If its free what incentive would they have to go would they even finish.

    I do think tuition is out of hand just like medical and health insurance is as well.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wang Chung View Post
    Now if you want to pay them. Give them like 6k a semester for other things but you are in school to learn and do school work in the course of study you chose.
    But they're not there to study at all... Almost all the true pro prospects
    , which more often than not are the ones who are being offered money on the hush, are there to get to the NBA and that's it. They go to college because they can't go straight to the league and that's the only legit option they have, because the only other options they have are playing on a different continent or signing to some smaller pro league in America (which to my knowledge no high ranked prospect has done)..

    Also I'm not sure why you'd need to pay people on academic scholarships.. They're not selling out your stadiums, playing on television or attracting attention to your school. People like Marvin Bagley, Michael Porter, etc are basically celebrities before they graduate high school, which isn't the case for your average future engineer.

    But.. I agree on the other points, it's going to take a lot of planning, tinkering and trial and error if they were to ever start paying athletes.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther View Post
    Come on dude, you act like they were just born like that. College level athletes have to bust their asses for YEARS to be good enough to make a team, let alone get a full ride scholarship. Nothing stopping just about anyone else from going to school for free if you can put in the work for it.

    You say if they're good enough to make the pros, they will, but what about all the guys and girls who give their body to the game and get hurt in a way that costs them that pro career? Sucks for them, guess they lost the lottery?
    Are the girls you're talking about getting paid as well, or is it just D1 football players?

    Will D2 players get paid too, or will the football programs in those schools get even more minimized?

    You're right that athletes do put in a lot of work, but I still don't see how that makes them different like you said from people who put in the work to get full ride scholarships by other means. Will those on academic scholarships be paid extra for getting good grades and test scores for the university?

    And the athletes you talk about who get injured and don't make it to the pros, they're in college. I'm pretty sure most schools don't take scholarships away for injuries. They can get their degrees, change their careers.

    Lastly, what would most college football players spend their money on? Honestly? Sure they might buy Momma a new house and get out of the ghetto. But let's be real, they have people go and talk to rookies in the NFL about blowing money and making bad financial mistakes. These are 23-24 year olds. How financially responsible is an 18 year old going to be for that money?

    The only thing I'll give them is this. They should be allowed sponsorships. They aren't right? I think any college athlete should be allowed that. I don't think that the NCAA or the university should pay athletes, but I do think they should be allowed to use their own persona for sponsorships if they have the opportunity.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    But they're not there to study at all... Almost all the true pro prospects
    , which more often than not are the ones who are being offered money on the hush, are there to get to the NBA and that's it. They go to college because they can't go straight to the league and that's the only legit option they have, because the only other options they have are playing on a different continent or signing to some smaller pro league in America (which to my knowledge no high ranked prospect has done)..

    Also I'm not sure why you'd need to pay people on academic scholarships.. They're not selling out your stadiums, playing on television or attracting attention to your school. People like Marvin Bagley, Michael Porter, etc are basically celebrities before they graduate high school, which isn't the case for your average future engineer.

    But.. I agree on the other points, it's going to take a lot of planning, tinkering and trial and error if they were to ever start paying athletes.
    Colleges are for education. Any college other than a D1 school considers sports a recreation and not a priority.

    People should be going there to get an education, and play sports extra.

    If you truly wanted to make it about being a minor league NFL league, then the NFL should completely revamp their system where they have a minor league, and have the players do some sort of specialized associate degree program that correlates with the NFL. Honestly that sounds like it'd be a far better alternative, but I understand that is something that would never happen. College sports are too much of a tradition.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    Colleges are for education. Any college other than a D1 school considers sports a recreation and not a priority.

    People should be going there to get an education, and play sports extra.

    If you truly wanted to make it about being a minor league NFL league, then the NFL should completely revamp their system where they have a minor league, and have the players do some sort of specialized associate degree program that correlates with the NFL. Honestly that sounds like it'd be a far better alternative, but I understand that is something that would never happen. College sports are too much of a tradition.
    Well, you see, colleges may be for education primarily but they are more or a less a business, much like the NFL or NBA. They put on events, they sell merch and have sponsorships and TV deals (or at least the conferences do). And people go there to play on a big stage on their way to becoming professional athletes. Not all of them, but a good bit of them. The reality is a lot of the guys aren't there to learn. And it's not a secret. Everyone including the shools know it too. But they let them come and blow off classes anyways because they come with money. That's just what it is. It's a form of entertainment that we consume. I've already said it would be very complicated to determine how players would be compensated but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. And I've also stated that the NBA, and the NFL as well, should make investments into a development system for players that know they're going pro and want to make a little salary before reaching the big time.

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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    You're right that athletes do put in a lot of work, but I still don't see how that makes them different like you said from people who put in the work to get full ride scholarships by other means. Will those on academic scholarships be paid extra for getting good grades and test scores for the university?
    No, why would they? They're not making the University any money and they're not literally risking their livelihoods for the sake of that University getting money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    Colleges are for education. Any college other than a D1 school considers sports a recreation and not a priority.

    People should be going there to get an education, and play sports extra.

    If you truly wanted to make it about being a minor league NFL league, then the NFL should completely revamp their system where they have a minor league, and have the players do some sort of specialized associate degree program that correlates with the NFL. Honestly that sounds like it'd be a far better alternative, but I understand that is something that would never happen. College sports are too much of a tradition.
    I mean that's cute that you think college is all about education but it's clearly not for most of the wannabe pro athletes, and even cuter that you think the NFL should do something about it. The NFL is getting their amateur pool selected for free, why would they ever pay money to start an amateur league when this is clearly the NCAA's problem? And since that's not going to happen, and the NFL and NBA are strict about players not coming into the league straight out of high school, their only option if they want to pursue a career in athletics is college. So yes, in theory, college is for "education." Those players are getting their degrees in sports so they can move on and make a career of it. There is no viable alternative, and kids are risking their livelihoods and their lives so the schools can make money hand over fist. Yeah that's just swell.



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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Only the athletes who make the school money get paid. Logical but Title IX could cause issues.


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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Golden One View Post
    Only the athletes who make the school money get paid. Logical but Title IX could cause issues.
    Realistically you could start by just giving the players a cut of sales related to their sports. Every ticket bought for an Alabama football game has percentage go to the players. The money you get from your TV deal for that game, a percentage goes to the players. If someone buys an Alabama football jersey, boom, cut for the players. You could actually let the athletes profit off their name, if someone wants to pay Johnny Manziel fifty bucks for an autograph, let him do it, he's earned it.

    This may not add up to much money, especially for lesser players on smaller teams, but at least they'd get SOMETHING for their efforts, and the Universities would be perceived as less gluttonous if they were sharing the wealth.



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    Re: NCAA Basketball Scandal Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Panther View Post
    Realistically you could start by just giving the players a cut of sales related to their sports. Every ticket bought for an Alabama football game has percentage go to the players. The money you get from your TV deal for that game, a percentage goes to the players. If someone buys an Alabama football jersey, boom, cut for the players. You could actually let the athletes profit off their name, if someone wants to pay Johnny Manziel fifty bucks for an autograph, let him do it, he's earned it.

    This may not add up to much money, especially for lesser players on smaller teams, but at least they'd get SOMETHING for their efforts, and the Universities would be perceived as less gluttonous if they were sharing the wealth.
    That's something I agree with. I don't think the NCAA has any right to tell players they can't profit off their own name or likeness.

    Paying them to play for the school crosses the line for me, but it's the complete opposite when it comes to them saying they can't get paid for signing their own autographs.

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