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Thread: The Civil NA Politics Thread

  1. #281
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    The truth is that capitalism is very hard to finely tune.

    Too much government regulation and you wind up with what America has today which has driven most of our companies overseas, hurt our economy, and put Americans out of work.

    Too little and you get stories like you see above.



    Now I suppose one could argue that MORE regulation could help fix our current situation by making rules that American companies cannot hire foreign workers but then again they would probably just pick up and move to another country all together then.

    I don't really think there is an answer to this issue.

    I think America is just fucked because businesses who once put patriotism above profit no longer have that outlook.

    They only care about making more money. At the expense of the workers, at the expense of the country, it matters not.

    “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”

    ― William F. Buckley Jr.

  2. #282
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakstang View Post

    I don't really think there is an answer to this issue.

    I think America is just fucked because businesses who once put patriotism above profit no longer have that outlook.

    They only care about making more money. At the expense of the workers, at the expense of the country, it matters not.
    The answer to the vast majority of questions in economics is and always will be 'it depends'. In the case of regulation, it depends what you want to achieve.

    The whole problem with economic policy is people want things to be either entirely good or entirely bad. In reality, they are usually good in some circumstances and bad in others. Privatisation for example can be either very successful or extraordinarily dumb depending on what you're privatising. The only things that can be summarily dismissed are the extremes (communism and free market capitalism), and theories which have been disproven by evidence (incidentally, trickle down economics is one of those, rendering that Reagan quote in Dakstang's sig rather ironic).

    But nobody wants to see it that way. There's an easy solution to the employment problems in the coal and rust belt states in the US; a government owned renewable energy company with factories for building wind turbines and solar panels installed in low employment areas. Make training available and you have employment available in a growth industry that helps global warming and reduces long term dependency on imported energy. And could potentially offer lower cost renewable energy to everyday people across the whole country. But that's all a bit too lefty socialist sounding for the hardcore Trump acolytes, isn't it? So let's just prop up a coal industry that has no long term future instead.

    And private enterprise was always motivated solely by profit. It simply manifests in different ways in a globalised economy. The problem isn't lack of patriotism in companies, it's dogmatic ideology in policy making. I would love to see Sean Hannity's face if anyone pointed out to him that the only economist who has ever correctly predicted the long term general trends of a low regulation capitalist economy is Karl Marx.

  3. #283
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    So Trump wants another shutdown.

    And he also says those who don't clap for him are treasonous.

    Hold on, here comes Sanders to say that's not what he meant.
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  4. #284
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    didn't trump bury democrats for the last shut down, or was it just his cronies? i don't want to give him flack if it wasn't him, but if it was and now he supports it to get what he wants, typical

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  5. #285
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Pretty much.
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  6. #286
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Today I legitimately nearly cried reading the news. At this point there's absolutely no excuse left for the United States government -- this administration, the past, or the one before it -- to have not solved the issue of school shootings.

    No other country IN THE WORLD has this problem. Sure, I will give you there may be A SHOOTING; not 12 in 1 1/2 months.

    Anyway here's the article - at least 14 dead. Shooter captured - some 20 year old kid. Maybe white. Maybe part hispanic. Doesn't matter. Shot 14 innocent kids with a gun https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ool/338217002/

    I'm cool with guns. Our current President is a prime example of why the 2nd amendment is so important to America. But we need to keep them out of the hands of the wrong people. Discriminate if you must. But enough kids and innocent people have died.

  7. #287
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inogenius View Post
    Today I legitimately nearly cried reading the news. At this point there's absolutely no excuse left for the United States government -- this administration, the past, or the one before it -- to have not solved the issue of school shootings.

    No other country IN THE WORLD has this problem. Sure, I will give you there may be A SHOOTING; not 12 in 1 1/2 months.

    Anyway here's the article - at least 14 dead. Shooter captured - some 20 year old kid. Maybe white. Maybe part hispanic. Doesn't matter. Shot 14 innocent kids with a gun https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ool/338217002/

    I'm cool with guns. Our current President is a prime example of why the 2nd amendment is so important to America. But we need to keep them out of the hands of the wrong people. Discriminate if you must. But enough kids and innocent people have died.
    This is very tragic. There was a school shooting last week and thankfully no one died.


    Another sad part is, is some people try and villainize people who talk about gun control when these shootings happen. Screaming its too soon or let the dead rest before making it political. How long should people wait? Its becoming a monthly occurence or its headed that way.

    Bottom line is, its political, its personal, its a fucking epidemic that affects the US.

    The time of waiting is over.

    And im pro resonsible gun ownernership. It seems most in the US arent. It needs to be treated like a priviledge like driving a car. And i know it contradicts the contistution but big deal.

    And just because the "bad" guys wont follow the laws is a apparently a valid argument. Well then why have laws at all...


    And sorry if this sounds blunt but im sick of it.

    And Ino is right no other core country has this epedemic. this is why the US needs to stop being pig headed and admit maybe their way isn't he right way.

    Face it, thoughts and prayers wont prevent these tragedies. Discussions that lead to a solutions will.
    Last edited by indyfan; 02-14-2018 at 07:59 PM.
    Here fishy fishy fishy.......

  8. #288
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Exactly.

    I don't know the answer. I'll go to DC and propose a few if congress can't come up with any. Because doing something, is better than sitting here with our thumbs up our asses, posting memes of Charlton Heston like we have for the past 20 years.

    in 2018, let me tell you what we can't blame.

    Bullying.

    Video games.

    Mental illness.

    Not any of those. Blood is on the hands of every congress member who has failed to act.
    Last edited by Inogenius; 02-14-2018 at 08:02 PM.

  9. #289
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inogenius View Post
    Today I legitimately nearly cried reading the news. At this point there's absolutely no excuse left for the United States government -- this administration, the past, or the one before it -- to have not solved the issue of school shootings.

    No other country IN THE WORLD has this problem. Sure, I will give you there may be A SHOOTING; not 12 in 1 1/2 months.

    Anyway here's the article - at least 14 dead. Shooter captured - some 20 year old kid. Maybe white. Maybe part hispanic. Doesn't matter. Shot 14 innocent kids with a gun https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ool/338217002/

    I'm cool with guns. Our current President is a prime example of why the 2nd amendment is so important to America. But we need to keep them out of the hands of the wrong people. Discriminate if you must. But enough kids and innocent people have died.
    Honestly just feel numb to it at this point. Its horrifying, but you can't be constantly horrifying.

    This government, the previous government.... none of them want to address it. Its purely political - they don't want to drive away voters and donations. Gun lobby is massive. The response is always the same - right after an "incident" is "no time to bring up gun control", but instead its time for thoughts and prayers. And once a few weeks have passed, most of the media and public has moved on, except those still dealing with the tragedy. And the government can go back to ignoring any calls for intervention of any kind.

    Didn't see it mentioned, but reading about Don Jr getting mailed a noxious substance (fake or not) is fucking awful. That shit is just wrong.

  10. #290
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    29 major shootings 45 days into 2018 in the USA.


    To say that there is not a problem, and that this "Thoughts and prayers" solution is working is absurd.


    A nation cannot herald itself as the "Greatest Country" in the world with statistics like that.

    What exactly is it going to take for any sort of meaningful change? Because this is happening at an alarming rate, becoming more and more frequent, and absolutely zero is done about it.

    Tweeting that this is a tragedy and that you are praying is a bullshit cop out.


    But again, this is no time to bring up gun control. No, we can't make this political. Gosh, no. Let's just do nothing and pray. The NRA will keep us safe.
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  11. #291
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    This is sort of where we are at in America.

    A gallup poll done after the Las Vegas shooting in November revealed a huge divide in where we think we need to go with gun laws.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/10/13/55743...n-restrictions

    When 70 percent of one side of the country feel that owning guns is worth the risks of mass shootings and 60 percent of the other side disagrees with that statement.... we have an impasse. No matter how tragic, no matter how frequent, no matter how what.... we aren't coming together on this. So prepare for more.

    As a gun owner, I've tried to find compromises and the gun lobby and other gun owners won't budge. What they feel is their right is more important to them than what is happening.


  12. #292
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by White Rhyno View Post
    This is sort of where we are at in America.

    A gallup poll done after the Las Vegas shooting in November revealed a huge divide in where we think we need to go with gun laws.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/10/13/55743...n-restrictions

    When 70 percent of one side of the country feel that owning guns is worth the risks of mass shootings and 60 percent of the other side disagrees with that statement.... we have an impasse. No matter how tragic, no matter how frequent, no matter how what.... we aren't coming together on this. So prepare for more.

    As a gun owner, I've tried to find compromises and the gun lobby and other gun owners won't budge. What they feel is their right is more important to them than what is happening.
    WR, I understand those sentiments. And I am left leaning and not in the mind to try and say you can't.

    I live in rural Maine, and have owned guns and grew up with that. But you are absolutely right, the others won't budge. No compromise. "From our cold dead hands", etc, etc. To these people, this is the absolute single most important thing in the world. Zero regulations are considered, zero changes are entertained. It's viewed as grounds for a civil war to them.

    And apparently, tragedies like this are not enough to sway that.
    My whims will become lightning bolts that raze the mounds of humanity

  13. #293
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inogenius View Post
    Exactly.

    I don't know the answer. I'll go to DC and propose a few if congress can't come up with any. Because doing something, is better than sitting here with our thumbs up our asses, posting memes of Charlton Heston like we have for the past 20 years.

    in 2018, let me tell you what we can't blame.

    Bullying.

    Video games.

    Mental illness.

    Not any of those. Blood is on the hands of every congress member who has failed to act.
    Here's my issue with mental illness excuses.

    I don't disagree mental illness and a state of mind plays a huge factor. But you can't, and republicans do, one minute blame mental illness but then want to cut spending on it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. At the very least, even if you're pro gun, better mental health services, stronger tests, etc is essential. Of course, mental illness and disease is a funny thing. Someone can have something and it not be evident until something triggers it. Then what? How can we be safe?

    Guns are dangerous, and I don't know the right answer either outside of their big fear. I just know if the republicans and lawmakers use mental health as an excuse they should be advocating for stricter mental health tests and most importantly, more money toward the study of mental health, the care for patients with mental health issues, etc.

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  14. #294
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Unfortunately, by and large mental illness is still viewed as more or less of a stigma.

    And it's a tough line, because many with some sort of mental illness are not a danger to others. Some are. But more needs to be done to address and treat mental illness, as well.

    But the government would rather cut funding towards that sort of thing, and spend more on the military. Why do we need food, healthchare, medicine, scientific advancements?

    The funny thing is, people will argue "It's mental illness, not a gun issue."

    Yet will do nothing about it. Though won't make it harder for those with mental illness to get guns, god no. Thats infringing! They won't even entertain anything like that.

    But for some reason, "The Greatest Country In The World" has no solutions to this sort of thing.

    Cause, Freedoms and America is different, and whatever BS excuse they tout off as the FOTM.
    My whims will become lightning bolts that raze the mounds of humanity

  15. #295
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    We can blame whoever, whatever.....

    Until a tragedy happens in someones backyard; it isn't REALLY taken seriously by a lot of folks.

    This is coming from a conceal and carry permit holder, combat vet and former avid hunter.... not some person anti-gun person.


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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Thoughts and prayers.

    That God fella has got some sense of humor.


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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by White Rhyno View Post
    We can blame whoever, whatever.....

    Until a tragedy happens in someones backyard; it isn't REALLY taken seriously by a lot of folks.

    This is coming from a conceal and carry permit holder, combat vet and former avid hunter.... not some person anti-gun person.
    Very true. Until it hits close to home, ones views on this isn't going to change.

    It reminds me a bit of how staunchly against gay marriage Dick Cheney was for his life. However, when his daughter came out? He changed his stance.

    It's an apples and oranges comparison at best...But I think it makes sense.
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  18. #298
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by White Rhyno View Post
    We can blame whoever, whatever.....

    Until a tragedy happens in someones backyard; it isn't REALLY taken seriously by a lot of folks.

    This is coming from a conceal and carry permit holder, combat vet and former avid hunter.... not some person anti-gun person.
    Unfortunately, that's a reality. A pal of mine in this very thread was hit by something that benefited many more people than it hurt, but because it hurt someone close to him he endlessly rallies against it. Sometimes we're prisoners of our own circumstances. It isn't easy to see past it. I wish in this case people who don't know better would really take it into consideration though.

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  19. #299
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    Thoughts and prayers wont prevent shootings should be a viral tweet
    Here fishy fishy fishy.......

  20. #300
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    Re: The Fresh and Civil Politics Thread

    I send up thoughts and prayers. I DO think there is some power in that, but relying on thoughts and prayers is the assanine part. God calls us to take action. (By us I mean Christians)

    I get the frustration when somethig like that is thrown up as some weak response, but there are a lot of us that REALLY use our faith to better the world around us and (for us) that has to begin with thoughts and prayers.


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