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Thread: The Civil NA Politics Thread

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostface View Post
    Did you look that hard? I literally just found this on time.com: http://time.com/5293902/misleading-p...iberals-trump/

    Sorry if that sounded sassy.
    Well, that is entirely wrong, and not surprising.


    But what is also very wrong and currently happening is arguably just as bad if not worse, and policies are put into place that encourage such. The warehouses that are being used for it, and tent cities being established are new and more coming.
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by v4yne View Post
    Well, that is entirely wrong, and not surprising.


    But what is also very wrong and currently happening is arguably just as bad if not worse, and policies are put into place that encourage such. The warehouses that are being used for it, and tent cities being established are new and more coming.
    Just like with guns I'd rather hear solutions. What are your proposals to stop illegal immigration?

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by v4yne View Post

    How is it okay to take a 4 month old from their parents? Why are they not being sent back together?
    Because they'll just try and get back in again and again.

    If you are going to try and enter a country illegally, then you have to accept the consequences, and one of those consequences is being separated from your child while you are imprisoned.

    This faux outrage about kids being separated from their families is exactly the sort of reason why people distrust the left in America. Nobody batted an eyelid when this was happening under Obama, now that it's Trump it's proof that he is literally Hitler.

    Then in two days Trump will say something to get everyone outraged again and they'll forget about this whole thing.



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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostface View Post
    Did you look that hard? I literally just found this on time.com: http://time.com/5293902/misleading-p...iberals-trump/

    Sorry if that sounded sassy.
    Clearly you didn't read the link I posted, because it addressed that specific situation.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inogenius View Post
    Clearly you didn't read the link I posted, because it addressed that specific situation.
    You said you weren't able to find evidence, the link I gave you is verifiable proof Obama was doing this in 2014. I did look at your link and it disproved a different 2018 picture, but not verify the 2014 pictures like mine did.

    All in all both links together paint the picture this wasn't a specific to 2018 problem.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostface View Post
    You said you weren't able to find evidence, the link I gave you is verifiable proof Obama was doing this in 2014. I did look at your link and it disproved a different 2018 picture, but not verify the 2014 pictures like mine did.

    All in all both links together paint the picture this wasn't a specific to 2018 problem.
    I'll paste it again.

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/migran...plained-2018-5 - claims it was unaccompanied minors crossing into the USA until they could be resettled. If they were truly unaccompanied and DID NOT have an end destination, then it's justifiable. If they did have a family ready to accept them, then the Obama administration deserves just as much criticism.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostface View Post
    Just like with guns I'd rather hear solutions. What are your proposals to stop illegal immigration?
    Work programs with visas. Accepting those trying to enter for asylum. Instead of dumping billions into a wall, work with our ally on their and our issues together to figure out a plan, instead of lying to the American people saying the other country will pay for a wall that will never happen. Instead of using brutal tactics using children's suffering as bargaining chips to force your policies hand, do something constructive.

    My proposals involve working together to address the route of the problem, not strictly looking at the end result. And I think the only way to do that is to have the two countries work together on a solution. If you look at the amount of money spent currently on this, and the amount proposed..That could all be used for this instead.

    Besides, experts agree the wall is a nightmare. Ecological experts show it cuts off numerous migration routes for animals, and would destroy a lot of wildlife sanctuaries and possibly force extinction of several species. Architects have stated the wall is next to, if not impossible with it's specifications due to the terrain differences and size.

    But I think we should all be able to agree, that warehousing children is not a good situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergej Milinkovic-Shockic View Post
    Because they'll just try and get back in again and again.

    If you are going to try and enter a country illegally, then you have to accept the consequences, and one of those consequences is being separated from your child while you are imprisoned.

    This faux outrage about kids being separated from their families is exactly the sort of reason why people distrust the left in America. Nobody batted an eyelid when this was happening under Obama, now that it's Trump it's proof that he is literally Hitler.

    Then in two days Trump will say something to get everyone outraged again and they'll forget about this whole thing.



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    So, taking away a persons kids is going to make them not try to get back in. Okay, gotcha.


    Take away their children, kick them out. Problem...solved? Now we have a bunch of children left in the desert in tents and warehouses. Your solution next? Should we take the typical route in this scenario and "re-educate" them?



    You say this is "faux" outrage. You don't think people were outraged by things other presidents did? Are you implying that things happening under Trump are not as bad, yet alone no worse than what happened under Obama? That the border situation, and "Zero tolerance" policy was the same way? That tent cities were being erected?
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inogenius View Post
    I'll paste it again.

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/migran...plained-2018-5 - claims it was unaccompanied minors crossing into the USA until they could be resettled. If they were truly unaccompanied and DID NOT have an end destination, then it's justifiable. If they did have a family ready to accept them, then the Obama administration deserves just as much criticism.
    That second link was blocked by adlink, but then I'm confused as to why you came and said you had no evidence. That link is pure evidence it was going on in 2014.

    As for justified or not, I didn't answer Shock to say if it was or not, just that it was happening before Trump. I do agree with Shock though that we are a nation of laws and we must do something when laws are broken.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by v4yne View Post
    Work programs with visas. Accepting those trying to enter for asylum. Instead of dumping billions into a wall, work with our ally on their and our issues together to figure out a plan, instead of lying to the American people saying the other country will pay for a wall that will never happen. Instead of using brutal tactics using children's suffering as bargaining chips to force your policies hand, do something constructive.

    My proposals involve working together to address the route of the problem, not strictly looking at the end result. And I think the only way to do that is to have the two countries work together on a solution. If you look at the amount of money spent currently on this, and the amount proposed..That could all be used for this instead.

    Besides, experts agree the wall is a nightmare. Ecological experts show it cuts off numerous migration routes for animals, and would destroy a lot of wildlife sanctuaries and possibly force extinction of several species. Architects have stated the wall is next to, if not impossible with it's specifications due to the terrain differences and size.

    But I think we should all be able to agree, that warehousing children is not a good situation.


    So, taking away a persons kids is going to make them not try to get back in. Okay, gotcha.


    Take away their children, kick them out. Problem...solved? Now we have a bunch of children left in the desert in tents and warehouses. Your solution next? Should we take the typical route in this scenario and "re-educate" them?



    You say this is "faux" outrage. You don't think people were outraged by things other presidents did? Are you implying that things happening under Trump are not as bad, yet alone no worse than what happened under Obama? That the border situation, and "Zero tolerance" policy was the same way? That tent cities were being erected?
    We already have Visas. They're entering the country without applying for one. You can't reward people who think the law doesn't apply.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostface View Post
    That second link was blocked by adlink, but then I'm confused as to why you came and said you had no evidence. That link is pure evidence it was going on in 2014.

    As for justified or not, I didn't answer Shock to say if it was or not, just that it was happening before Trump. I do agree with Shock though that we are a nation of laws and we must do something when laws are broken.
    We are a nation of laws, yes.

    Did our founding fathers, as the right frequently like to bring up, not speak a lot of cases of unjust laws, however?

    I think it is dangerous to have the thinking of absolute law and absolute justice. That can lead to very dire scenarios.

    As far as those visas go, that situation is not perfect. I mean it needs to be addressed and fixed.

    A very large amount of Americans couldn't pass the citizenship tests, is another point to be made.
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by v4yne View Post
    We are a nation of laws, yes.

    Did our founding fathers, as the right frequently like to bring up, not speak a lot of cases of unjust laws, however?

    I think it is dangerous to have the thinking of absolute law and absolute justice. That can lead to very dire scenarios.

    As far as those visas go, that situation is not perfect. I mean it needs to be addressed and fixed.

    A very large amount of Americans couldn't pass the citizenship tests, is another point to be made.
    “A nation that cannot control its borders isn’t really a nation.” - Ronald Reagan

    If there was ever a just law, it's you must enter our country through the proper channels.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostface View Post
    “A nation that cannot control its borders isn’t really a nation.” - Ronald Reagan

    If there was ever a just law, it's you must enter our country through the proper channels.
    And how about we work on addressing those channels?

    Also, Ronald Reagan said a ton of stupid shit. Between the Iran/Contra debacle, failing entirely to handle the AIDS crisis, and...well...

    "Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981.


    In other news, Trump is officially moving forward with the 6th branch of military, the space force.

    Yes, the same man who wanted to pull out of the ISS and privatize it, now has decided, in his words "We must dominate space.".

    Getting involved in too many deals and endeavors at once is not always a good idea.

    While I am all for funding the hell out of science, space exploration, and the like..establishing massive funding to have a militarized space force right now seems out of the blue and unneeded, and if anything, just an attempt to flex.
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by v4yne View Post
    Work programs with visas. Accepting those trying to enter for asylum. Instead of dumping billions into a wall, work with our ally on their and our issues together to figure out a plan, instead of lying to the American people saying the other country will pay for a wall that will never happen. Instead of using brutal tactics using children's suffering as bargaining chips to force your policies hand, do something constructive.

    My proposals involve working together to address the route of the problem, not strictly looking at the end result. And I think the only way to do that is to have the two countries work together on a solution. If you look at the amount of money spent currently on this, and the amount proposed..That could all be used for this instead.

    Besides, experts agree the wall is a nightmare. Ecological experts show it cuts off numerous migration routes for animals, and would destroy a lot of wildlife sanctuaries and possibly force extinction of several species. Architects have stated the wall is next to, if not impossible with it's specifications due to the terrain differences and size.

    But I think we should all be able to agree, that warehousing children is not a good situation.


    So, taking away a persons kids is going to make them not try to get back in. Okay, gotcha.


    Take away their children, kick them out. Problem...solved? Now we have a bunch of children left in the desert in tents and warehouses. Your solution next? Should we take the typical route in this scenario and "re-educate" them?



    You say this is "faux" outrage. You don't think people were outraged by things other presidents did? Are you implying that things happening under Trump are not as bad, yet alone no worse than what happened under Obama? That the border situation, and "Zero tolerance" policy was the same way? That tent cities were being erected?
    If you're going to try and make me say anything in favour of Trump or his policies then I've got some bad news for you. The right can be just as hypocritical and hysterical as well.

    It's the best thing about being a centrist. You get to laugh at the ridiculousness of both sides. Honestly both sides do sound exactly the same to me these days. Fake and selective outrage when it suits their rhetoric, or makes the opposition look bad.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    To bring this back to a lighter and more fun topic: Trump just announced that U.S. is adding a sixth branch of the Armed Forces... a Space Force.


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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergej Milinkovic-Shockic View Post
    If you're going to try and make me say anything in favour of Trump or his policies then I've got some bad news for you. The right can be just as hypocritical and hysterical as well.

    It's the best thing about being a centrist. You get to laugh at the ridiculousness of both sides. Honestly both sides do sound exactly the same to me these days. Fake and selective outrage when it suits their rhetoric, or makes the opposition look bad.

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    Yes, and I agree with that. But you seem to be partial to bringing things up when mentioned against Trump, and frequenting the "But (insert democrat).." card.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostface View Post
    To bring this back to a lighter and more topic: Trump just announced that U.S. is adding a sixth branch of the Armed Forces... a Space Force.

    Saw that...

    -facepalm-
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by v4yne View Post
    Yes, and I agree with that. But you seem to be partial to bringing things up when mentioned against Trump, and frequenting the "But (insert democrat).." card.
    To be fair to him the liberals far outnumbers us conservatives in here, so it's easier to play devil's advocate against you.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by v4yne View Post
    Yes, and I agree with that. But you seem to be partial to bringing things up when mentioned against Trump, and frequenting the "But (insert democrat).." card.-
    Because people pretend Trump is the second coming of Hitler for stuff that the US have done for ages now.

    And I can agree with certain aspects of Trump's presidency and I'm not above giving him praise when he deserves it just because he's a twat. Just like I'm not above criticising him for his nonsense and terrible opinions.


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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergej Milinkovic-Shockic View Post
    Because people pretend Trump is the second coming of Hitler for stuff that the US have done for ages now.
    I won't lie - I 100% believe the Donald Trump presidency is a Fascist regime.

    I am embarrassed. I am saddened. I am scared for the world's future.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inogenius View Post
    I won't lie - I 100% believe the Donald Trump presidency is a Fascist regime.

    I am embarrassed. I am saddened. I am scared for the world's future.
    I would be embarrassed and sad if he were my leader too.

    But put things in perspective. You are able to log on to WC and claim your government is fascist. If you want to, you can sign up to Twitter, go to Trump's page and call him a twat directly. You can go across the street from the White House gates with a sign that says "Trump sucks Putin's dick". You can join a protest of 5 people or 500000 people and protest whatever the hell you want. You can vote freely for an alternative choice with relatively little issue.

    These are not things that are possible in a fascist government. Try something like that in Russia, or North Korea. Calling the Trump admin fascist weakens the meaning of the word. It's embarrassing, they lie, and they manipulate the population, but they aren't fascist.

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