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Thread: Let's Talk About Police in America

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by hanz gruber View Post
    Guess it just all depends on where you live as far as how most cops are. I would imagine in a big city most cops may have an attitude and would not let things slide- sucH as a speeding ticket. Where we live in Mississippi pretty much all of them are cool.
    I come from a very rural area and a lot of Policeman here are very rude to the public.

    I am not saying all are.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    My personal experiences have been the opposite tbh. Small town cops tend to be meaner .. or more bored. City cops are usually too busy to give me trouble. But it should be noted this is coming from a straight white male. Experiences likely vary. And as always, cops are different depending on the people, the station, and their training.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Dook View Post
    My personal experiences have been the opposite tbh. Small town cops tend to be meaner .. or more bored. City cops are usually too busy to give me trouble. But it should be noted this is coming from a straight white male. Experiences likely vary. And as always, cops are different depending on the people, the station, and their training.
    I think this is accurate. But it depends on the department I think and their style. Community policing departments are much friendly.

    But the whole get tough on crime approach definitely took us steps backwards when it came to police attitudes. And to be honest the criticism is only alienating them more.

    If I was a cop however, I'd be using a body cam 24/7. Without question.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    If I was a cop however, I'd be using a body cam 24/7. Without question.
    I think it should be a law that all of them must wear a body cam 24/7.

    The fact that some of them don't and their attitude toward being filmed by the public should be very telling.

    They know they are doing something wrong and don't want it documented.

    With video cameras so prevalent these days I think it is only a matter of time before the Police are forced to change their act.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall Dakson View Post
    I think it should be a law that all of them must wear a body cam 24/7.

    The fact that some of them don't and their attitude toward being filmed by the public should be very telling.

    They know they are doing something wrong and don't want it documented.

    With video cameras so prevalent these days I think it is only a matter of time before the Police are forced to change their act.
    Even with video(Taken By Someone else) some cops get away with their crimes. But yeah I am with you and Sully, it should be a law that all should wear body cameras.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by hanz gruber View Post
    Even with video(Taken By Someone else) some cops get away with their crimes. But yeah I am with you and Sully, it should be a law that all should wear body cameras.
    That's why I would wear one 24/7 as a police officer. The videos taken by someone else don't show the whole story. They show 1 minute of an incident that was going on for 1 hour.

    Not to mention it would make writing their reports so much easier.

    Dak some police don't have the choice, it is up to their departments. And the department may not use them for plenty of reasons. Budget, regulations, etc.

    There's still a lot of red tape to go for body cams to become an official instrument of law enforcement, but they are becoming more and more used by departments.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    That's why I would wear one 24/7 as a police officer. The videos taken by someone else don't show the whole story. They show 1 minute of an incident that was going on for 1 hour.

    Not to mention it would make writing their reports so much easier.

    Dak some police don't have the choice, it is up to their departments. And the department may not use them for plenty of reasons. Budget, regulations, etc.

    There's still a lot of red tape to go for body cams to become an official instrument of law enforcement, but they are becoming more and more used by departments.
    Yeah I do realize that budget is a big part of it. That is why we need a law passed at the national level requiring departments to comply.

    Also it is all too convenient when accusations of misconduct arise for the officers body cam to have been 'off' or even their patrol car camera.

    We need to have a law where Police do not control the cams or the footage. A third party agency would do it so there can be no cover ups by the Police. Make it a new government agency if you have to but something needs to be done so that Police officers can't get away with crimes and cannot cover them up.

    Then and only then will things change in this country.

    When they know they are being monitored 24/7 maybe they will treat the public with respect again.
    Last edited by Stonewall Dakson; 09-09-2017 at 04:17 PM.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    I've given Dak shit before so I should say I think his post about aggressive cops, bad training, and the us-versus-them mentality was spot on.


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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by The Golden One View Post
    I've given Dak shit before so I should say I think his post about aggressive cops, bad training, and the us-versus-them mentality was spot on.
    How sweet and expected! The leftist agreeing with a soverign (who is only mad at police for getting tickets, which I'm sure he earned by the way) on this subject! You two talk about bad police training, huh? How much have the two of you attended? Remember you and I lived in the same State and I am just as well known in your current state, so be prepared to have it called out .

    So Dak, you want a law passed on the "Federal Level", correct? So that constitustionalist, state's rights mumbo mumbo only applies when it benefits your cause huh? Not saying I'm for or against a body camera, I'm just not a big fan of Federal Intrusion. By the way, there are third party agencies that look into "corruption". Didn't you pay attention in any of your "Criminal Justice" classes? I mean, haven't you been paying attention to the news the last decade? What do you think the DOJ does? Contrary to popular right wing nonsense... It wasn't President Obama's personal police force to create a police state.
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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    I like Swamps.

    Although I will say that I'm one of the most left winged guys there is, but when it comes to I police I bleed blue.

    You people criticize the Us vs Them mindset, yet you're actively taking a role in that. The "Us" is just the people who think the police are all bad.

    You wonder why police stick so closely together. It's a Brotherhood. They are the only ones who understand. Nobody else understands what the job is like. So they turn to each other. Just like military vets.

    But us vs Them or not, those police will always protect and serve us. They're the ones who ran into the those burning towers 16 years ago until they collapsed with them inside. That's the real mindset.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    The problem with the rhetoric sully pushes, and what others pushed, is that police are human. That means there are people who do very bad things, people who do very good things, people who do cowardly things, and people who do heroic things. Pushing one side of the agenda as being the only side makes people close up. There ARE issues with police in America. If you deny that, which some do, or try to excuse their actions by pointing to positives others do, it only discredits and further pushes people away. Naturally the opposite is true, if you pretend there are no heroic police who try to do the right thing.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Dook View Post
    The problem with the rhetoric sully pushes, and what others pushed, is that police are human. That means there are people who do very bad things, people who do very good things, people who do cowardly things, and people who do heroic things. Pushing one side of the agenda as being the only side makes people close up. There ARE issues with police in America. If you deny that, which some do, or try to excuse their actions by pointing to positives others do, it only discredits and further pushes people away. Naturally the opposite is true, if you pretend there are no heroic police who try to do the right thing.
    This. Not sure why that's so hard to understand and we've got to veer to one extreme or the other.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Dook View Post
    The problem with the rhetoric sully pushes, and what others pushed, is that police are human. That means there are people who do very bad things, people who do very good things, people who do cowardly things, and people who do heroic things. Pushing one side of the agenda as being the only side makes people close up. There ARE issues with police in America. If you deny that, which some do, or try to excuse their actions by pointing to positives others do, it only discredits and further pushes people away. Naturally the opposite is true, if you pretend there are no heroic police who try to do the right thing.
    Not sure what you mean by this because that's the "rhetoric" I've pushed since my opening post. That police are human.

    I already agreed that there are good police and bad police. And I'm definitely interested in the psychology of what makes a good officer become bad.

    But I guess it always depends on what you define as a bad cop. One who's having a bad day and gives you shit for a ticket? Or one who singles out and targets people of color?

    I've talked about all the great cops I know personally. But I should mention that all of those cops have told stories of shitty cops they've interacted with. My professor once pulled a guy over, and that guy proceeded to hold his badge out the window to show he was a cop. The guy was off duty. Needless to say my professor was pissed, and did in fact give him a ticket.

    But my point is, the amount of bad cops is far less than the amount the media makes everyone believe. While some people think 100% of Cops are bad, some people think 60%, or half. I say 10%.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Swamps View Post
    So Dak, you want a law passed on the "Federal Level", correct? So that constitustionalist, state's rights mumbo mumbo only applies when it benefits your cause huh? Not saying I'm for or against a body camera, I'm just not a big fan of Federal Intrusion. By the way, there are third party agencies that look into "corruption". Didn't you pay attention in any of your "Criminal Justice" classes? I mean, haven't you been paying attention to the news the last decade? What do you think the DOJ does? Contrary to popular right wing nonsense... It wasn't President Obama's personal police force to create a police state.
    I am for limited Federal intrusion when it comes to fundamental rights like Constitutional rights.

    However in this case I feel that the only way to ensure that the public is protected is by passing Federal legislation and taking it out of the states hands. Swamps, you and I both know that in many cases when something shady goes down that conveniently we hear that a cars camera "wasn't working" or even if the Officer has a body camera somehow conveniently it "wasn't working". We all know that really means the footage was not good and was deleted. What I am proposing is creating on oversight agency (and if you want that to be the DOJ I guess it could me) that has control of the cameras. Nevermore could the public question whether footage was deleted at the local level because they would not have control over it. It would eliminate any possible corruption at that level and give the public much more confidence that the power of Police is checked.

    And not I have not gotten a ticket in a long time. My license is clear. No points against it.

    While I do dislike speeding laws and the way they are enforced that has nothing to do with body cams or creating an oversight agency for police cameras.

    What I am concerned about is the way the public is treated by Police and the fact that they are taught to lie to the public and try and go around their constitutional rights. That is something we must guard against at all costs.
    Last edited by Stonewall Dakson; 09-11-2017 at 12:52 AM.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    I like Swamps.

    Although I will say that I'm one of the most left winged guys there is, but when it comes to I police I bleed blue.

    You people criticize the Us vs Them mindset, yet you're actively taking a role in that. The "Us" is just the people who think the police are all bad.

    You wonder why police stick so closely together. It's a Brotherhood. They are the only ones who understand. Nobody else understands what the job is like. So they turn to each other. Just like military vets.

    But us vs Them or not, those police will always protect and serve us. They're the ones who ran into the those burning towers 16 years ago until they collapsed with them inside. That's the real mindset.
    I like you to, Bro! I don't dislike Leftists. Just being the stereotypical Libertarian busting both sides balls. Just cuz, that is what we do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dook View Post
    The problem with the rhetoric sully pushes, and what others pushed, is that police are human. That means there are people who do very bad things, people who do very good things, people who do cowardly things, and people who do heroic things. Pushing one side of the agenda as being the only side makes people close up. There ARE issues with police in America. If you deny that, which some do, or try to excuse their actions by pointing to positives others do, it only discredits and further pushes people away. Naturally the opposite is true, if you pretend there are no heroic police who try to do the right thing.
    You get "The Video".

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snow View Post
    This. Not sure why that's so hard to understand and we've got to veer to one extreme or the other.
    You too, get "The Video".

    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall Dakson View Post
    I am for limited Federal intrusion when it comes to fundamental rights like Constitutional rights.

    However in this case I feel that the only way to ensure that the public is protected is by passing Federal legislation and taking it out of the states hands. Swamps, you and I both know that in many cases when something shady goes down that conveniently we hear that a cars camera "wasn't working" or even if the Officer has a body camera somehow conveniently it "wasn't working". We all know that really means the footage was not good and was deleted. What I am proposing is creating on oversight agency (and if you want that to be the DOJ I guess it could me) that has control of the cameras. Nevermore could the public question whether footage was deleted at the local level because they would not have control over it. It would eliminate any possible corruption at that level and give the public much more confidence that the power of Police is checked..
    No, you and I both don't know that. Also, there have been body camera footage released to the public, where an officer was 100% in the right, and guess what? The public still cried foul.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall Dakson
    What I am concerned about is the way the public is treated by Police and the fact that they are taught to lie to the public and try and go around their constitutional rights. That is something we must guard against at all costs.
    I don't know what they teach officers in West Virginia, but in Georgia, I have never been to any type of training where I was taught to lie to anyone. As a matter of fact, honesty and integrity is beaten into the mind set. I would comment more but I am tired from these long hours. Is Hurricane season over yet?

    By the way, you also get "The Video"!
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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    I don't think Dak is saying they are taught to lie. But there is a brotherhood that may come into conflict with public. Does a rookie rat out his older partner if he breaks laws? Or does he stay quiet since it's a brotherhood. Especially now when it seems more and more people are against the police.

    Where I live, especially growing up, as an English teenager/ young adult, in Quebec, we had issues with cops for not replying in French . I have seen a cop face plant by friend. I have also been busted and let go.

    I agree there are good cops and crooked cops. I'd imagine it's blown out of proportion. But cops do abuse power and it's easy to do it. Sometimes it's huge displays..beating on an old woman ( happened in LA) or simply driving through red lights ( turn on their lights and then turn them off once they are through the intersection or stop sign or on their cell phones while driving)

    Even here in Montreal, the chief of Police has stated that our department has a racism problem on how they deal with minorities. Is it worse than what you guys see in the US? I highly doubt it. We hardly get the same amount of media exposure on our local news compared to the US .

    But even if it's 90 percent good cops versus 10 percent bad cops. 10 percent is unacceptable.

    We basically own the police since out taxes pay their salaries.

    This doesn't mean we get to break the law or yell in their faces.
    Last edited by indyfan; 09-12-2017 at 06:04 AM.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Swamps View Post
    I don't know what they teach officers in West Virginia, but in Georgia, I have never been to any type of training where I was taught to lie to anyone. As a matter of fact, honesty and integrity is beaten into the mind set. I would comment more but I am tired from these long hours. Is Hurricane season over yet?

    By the way, you also get "The Video"!
    Well if that is the case in Georgia, bravo for them.

    However I don't believe it.

    Many youtube videos are out there of Cops lying to the public. Telling them they do not have the right to film Police and telling them to turn the camera off which is a lie. Not taking a simple no as an answer and to keep trying to get someone to give consent to search often implying they do not have a choice which is a lie.

    Cops would not be against wearing cameras unless they had something to hide. Fact.

    Many former Police officers tell people never talk to the police and that the Police do not have their best interest in mind. Lawyers give the same advice.

    Now whether they are taught to lie in actual training or taught to lie by other Officer's that is another story. When I was a Correctional Officer I went through formal training and they told me one thing. When I went for on the job training with an Officer I was told, "This is how you are supposed to do it, this is how we actually do it."

    I feel the same mentality exists in Policing.

    Often times Policeman or families of Police Officers will say "Oh you don't know what it is like being a Police Officer" in defense of some Officer doing something illegal. Well boo fucking hoo that still doesn't give you the right to violate someones rights or lie.

    If someone can't do the job professionally then they don't need to do the job.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    When isolated Youtube videos are your standard of proof, you're on shaky ground.

    Cops do lie. Doctors lie. Preachers lie. Mothers lie. EVERYONE lies..... Pointing out that some people do in no way proves or shows that lying is any way an official policy of any group of people.

    Police officers have a tough job and plenty of them have taken it too far. They are still in the minority by a very large margin. To paint them in broad strokes is like never going to the doctor because some of them have been found guilty of malpractice or not sending your children to school because many teachers have been caught sexually abusing their students.

    Sure, we need to highlight these examples of negligence to show everyone that people in these proffesions need to be held to a higher standard, but to paint things like this as an epidemic of some sort is beyond hyperbole.



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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfan View Post
    I don't think Dak is saying they are taught to lie. But there is a brotherhood that may come into conflict with public. Does a rookie rat out his older partner if he breaks laws? Or does he stay quiet since it's a brotherhood. Especially now when it seems more and more people are against the police.

    Where I live, especially growing up, as an English teenager/ young adult, in Quebec, we had issues with cops for not replying in French . I have seen a cop face plant by friend. I have also been busted and let go.

    I agree there are good cops and crooked cops. I'd imagine it's blown out of proportion. But cops do abuse power and it's easy to do it. Sometimes it's huge displays..beating on an old woman ( happened in LA) or simply driving through red lights ( turn on their lights and then turn them off once they are through the intersection or stop sign or on their cell phones while driving)

    Even here in Montreal, the chief of Police has stated that our department has a racism problem on how they deal with minorities. Is it worse than what you guys see in the US? I highly doubt it. We hardly get the same amount of media exposure on our local news compared to the US .

    But even if it's 90 percent good cops versus 10 percent bad cops. 10 percent is unacceptable.

    We basically own the police since out taxes pay their salaries.

    This doesn't mean we get to break the law or yell in their faces.
    You're spot on about it being a brotherhood. It's well known and it's known by police too.

    Like I said I'd compare it to the same brotherhood that military vets have when they come home. No one else understands what you're a going through.

    Then you have the public scrutiny. You go out and you have wait staff spitting in your food. You have people thinking you're corrupt and an asshole without even talking to you. Old friends are no longer your friends once you take that oath because they don't want to be friends with cops.

    Not to mention the long hours that prevent you from going out and actually hanging out with those friends.

    So they bond with each other. They understand what nobody else does.

    That's never going to change. It's just the dynamics of the job. It takes it's tolls. It might foster that Us vs Them dynamic. It definitely takes it's tolls on relationships officers have in their own family, because God knows most cops won't go home and talk about their days with their wives. They're not vulnerable like that. They can't be.

    Dak is right though in a way. Cops aren't trained to "lie" that part is bullshit. But they're trained in a way to ask a question like it's a demand. "Can we come inside and talk" they ask as their foot is already in the door.

    But that's not on them. That's on the people to know their rights. If the cop truly doesn't take no for an answer and proceeds without a warrant than whatever evidence they found and everything after gets thrown out in court.

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    Re: Let's Talk About Police in America

    Quote Originally Posted by White Rhyno View Post
    When isolated Youtube videos are your standard of proof, you're on shaky ground.

    Cops do lie. Doctors lie. Preachers lie. Mothers lie. EVERYONE lies..... Pointing out that some people do in no way proves or shows that lying is any way an official policy of any group of people.

    Police officers have a tough job and plenty of them have taken it too far. They are still in the minority by a very large margin. To paint them in broad strokes is like never going to the doctor because some of them have been found guilty of malpractice or not sending your children to school because many teachers have been caught sexually abusing their students.

    Sure, we need to highlight these examples of negligence to show everyone that people in these proffesions need to be held to a higher standard, but to paint things like this as an epidemic of some sort is beyond hyperbole.
    YouTube videos and cellphone videos maybe the only proof that can be used if a police officer crosses the line. If there is no police dash board cam, body cam, or witnesses, what chance does a person have vs a cop in court.

    It's his/ her word vs the police otherwise.


    I agree maybe body cams is the best idea to combat crooked cops and it helps cops if they are worried about cellphones only recording half the story..

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