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Thread: Ezekiel Elliott suspended 6 games

  1. #21
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    Re: Ezekiel Elliott suspended 6 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan Superman View Post
    I'm sure you can come up with any number of reasons to justify your thoughts, if you were really pro-victim though, you'd understand how the notion of this is very damaging to victims, regardless of your "reasons" for saying it.

    I mean, you justified irreversible brain damage with money, so I'm sure your reasons are well-thought out and reasoned.
    You have no idea what you're talking about and I really don't appreciate you so blindly throwing those kinds of remarks towards my character when you have had very limited interaction with me in the sports section of a wrestling forum. I'm going into a career in victim advocacy, and I've seen cases from all sides. You're right that there is a very big problem with rape victims in wanting to come out and testify against their victims. But to suggest that I was victim shaming with what I said is pretty impertinent of you if I'm being quite honest. Everything to me is a case by case basis, and given my geographical location you can imagine I followed this case very closely when it was all going down seven years ago. I wouldn't just assume that about any case. With Elliot even I'm siding with the accuser even though her credibility isn't looking so great either.

    But with Ben Roethlisberger and the girl in Georgia it is an entirely different story. This girl and her friends all went to the bar wearing stickers that said "DTF (Down to Fuck)". And try saying that I said she was asking to get raped because that is not at all what I'm saying, but at the same time you don't wear something like that unless you want to have sex. It's one thing to say that a girl was dressing provocatively, but that is not even what this was. She was literally wearing a name tag that said she wanted to have sex.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/sites/d...sberger11b.gif - SOURCE

    The district attorney himself said that both parties were exchanging sexual comments and that it was a two way street "him to her, her to him": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apBOClZNRzY - SOURCE

    It also says in those police reports that the girl was "repeatedly" trying to get Ben's attention, pinching his arm throughout the entire night. And they also kept pestering Willie Colon, Ben's former lineman who was with him at the time, to get Willie to talk to Ben for them.

    The victim's friends got on Blash's Nerves because he kept asking them were they back there with her, and they said no. The victim's friends were trying to tell what was going on more than the victim was, and the victim could not answer Blash's questions."According to the reports, the two together went back into the very cramped bathroom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liHs6C7ajzg - SOURCE

    The friends/sorority sisters are the ones who started the accusations. Not the "victim" who you think I'm shaming. They went to the club manager and complained that the two were "locked" inside the bathroom together and thought she was took drunk. Those same friends are the ones who went to the police - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g - SOURCE

    The officer at the scene was "perturbed" by the fact that the friends/sorority sisters were doing all the talking. He said: "The victim's friends got on Blash's Nerves because he kept asking them were they back there with her, and they said no. The victim's friends were trying to tell what was going on more than the victim was, and the victim could not answer Blash's questions." - http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201004180234 - SOURCE

    Then the victim herself, when finally forced to answer a question on whether she thought Roethlisberger had raped her or not said no. = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g - SOURCE

    Also says

    "Blash also said she seemed inebriated, incoherent, "nonchalant," and at times seemed to to want to tell someone that "y'all did whatever."


    [The above was Officer Blash's account when interviewed by a special officer on March 15th.. His earlier account when interviewed by a special officer on March 5th, one day after the incident, is quoted below. He says that: (a) Roethlisberger didn’t force himself on her, but kept asking; (b) she said she wasn’t raped, but kept saying “I don’t know if we should be doing this here."

    “While Mr. Blash wasn't around, Officer Lopez interviewed the woman in a squad room at the station. … She told him something that officers found perplexing: the woman claimed that she and the 6-foot-5 Mr. Roethlisberger had sex while she was sitting on the toilet. He also said that, during the entire episode -- which the accuser alleged took 3 minutes (see below) -- that she never said "no." (She never even said, "I was scared to say no" or "I wanted to tell him to stop"). The quote is as follows:




    According to Officer Davidson, the accuser said back at the station house that "I don't think this is ok," (indicating equivocation) and "I should not have done this," (indicating regret after the fact)"


    And finally, the girl's entire story changed the next day - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g - SOURCE


    So let me correct myself in saying that the girl wanted all the fame and money. It was her friends. Both the DA and the police not only didn't think there was enough proof to win the case, they did not even see enough probable cause is for an arrest. Do you know what probable cause is? It's what they need to pull you over. It's the idea that a reasonable person would suspect that a crime has been committed. That is all they needed, and based on their statements from everyone they didn't have it. Ben wasn't charged, he wasn't arrested. The police and DA determined through the interviews that the story kept changing too much and that it sounded inaccurate and false. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liHs6C7ajzg - SOURCE

    Her friends started it. Their stories didn't match up when being interviewed by police. The girl's story didn't match up. Ben was never arrested, never charged. THAT is why I find a lack of credibility in what she says.

    So don't you DARE try and say that what I said hurts the actual victims. No, it's what these girls had done. These false accusations to try and ruin somebody's entire life. This isn't the only case.

    Have you heard of Brian Banks? He was a 5 star high school prospect from California before being accused of rape. The dude probably would've been drafted into the NFL. He would have gotten a full ride to college and had a degree. Instead in 2002 he was accused of rape. Facing a 41 year sentence he was coerced into signing a 5 year plea deal, and also forced to register as a sex offender. The "victim" sued the school and got awarded 1.5 million. 9 years later the "victim" contacted Brian on facebook and wanted to meet with him. She told him that she made it all up and that she was sorry. He secretly recorded it, and his conviction was overturned TEN years after he was first sent to jail. At the age of 28 the dude finally got his shot to play in the NFL, I think he played on the Falcon's practice squad. But this man's entire life, his entire career was ruined because of a false accusation.

    THAT is what is damaging to the real victims, not me pointing that stuff out. All it takes is one false accusation and your entire life is ruined. There is no real presumption of innocence with sexual assaults. And if the Brian Banks case isn't enough for you, I have a family member who is currently serving his 10th year in jail because of a false accusation. He's still fighting it.

    Yet with all of that, with everything I experienced and everything I have learned I still want to go into victim's advocacy. I'm in my 4th year studying Criminal Justice and Psychology, and I hope to work with children in the criminal justice system some day. So for you to say that to me, I'm sorry but it just struck a nerve. And to be honest you're sort of getting on my nerves by following me around and starting an argument with me in every sports thread here. Attacking something so simple as a fantasy football league.

    And for you to even try and connect what I said regarding CTE and the NFL and then twist it into your own little version of that is also underhanded. Those are two completely different things and I felt like I explained my point well in that thread. So don't try and take that and bring it up here.

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    Re: Ezekiel Elliott suspended 6 games

    Who let TGR into the sports section



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  3. #23
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    Re: Ezekiel Elliott suspended 6 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Silk View Post
    Who let TGR into the sports section
    I know, I got a little carried away. Needless to say he struck a chord with me, and I apologise for overreacting the way I did towards him.

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    Re: Ezekiel Elliott suspended 6 games

    First off, you're correct. False accusations hurt victims far more than statements like yours, that was never under any disagreement from me. One of the reasons I edited my post to be less snarky is because overall this entire argument is a result of our imperfect justice system. People like Brian Banks shouldn't have gone to jail, while people like Brock Turner probably should've gone to jail for much longer. It's a touchy subject, and one that I've dealt with in volunteering far more than I probably should have. One thing you'll come across in victims is story changing though, a lot of people leave out details that are embarrassing or unflattering because they don't want to feel worse. I'm not saying that Ben did anything, I'm just saying that from my perspective a story changing multiple times doesn't mean a whole lot to me as far as evidence goes. Fact of the matter is, we'll never actually know what happened, we'll never know the true motives behind whomever is lying, which is why saying this -
    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    They probably had sex, and then she wanted some fame and money after and cried rape.
    prompted my response, because ultimately that's a super fucking shitty thing to say about a human being that you don't know. You could've ended your statement before this part, and I probably never respond to it. This is the part that struck a nerve with me.

    I applaud you for going into victim's advocacy, and in doing so I also encourage you to choose your words more carefully. I admit I also did not choose my words carefully, and my second response was far snarkier than I wanted it to be in hindsight.

    Lastly, you literally framed your statements as "We pay these guys a ton of money, irreversible brain damage is okay." I twisted no words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    Honestly my point more so is these dudes have made millions and millions of dollars. So i don't have a vast amount of empathy for millionaires with brain problems.

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    Re: Ezekiel Elliott suspended 6 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan Superman View Post
    First off, you're correct. False accusations hurt victims far more than statements like yours, that was never under any disagreement from me. One of the reasons I edited my post to be less snarky is because overall this entire argument is a result of our imperfect justice system. People like Brian Banks shouldn't have gone to jail, while people like Brock Turner probably should've gone to jail for much longer. It's a touchy subject, and one that I've dealt with in volunteering far more than I probably should have. One thing you'll come across in victims is story changing though, a lot of people leave out details that are embarrassing or unflattering because they don't want to feel worse. I'm not saying that Ben did anything, I'm just saying that from my perspective a story changing multiple times doesn't mean a whole lot to me as far as evidence goes. Fact of the matter is, we'll never actually know what happened, we'll never know the true motives behind whomever is lying, which is why saying this -

    prompted my response, because ultimately that's a super fucking shitty thing to say about a human being that you don't know. You could've ended your statement before this part, and I probably never respond to it. This is the part that struck a nerve with me.

    I applaud you for going into victim's advocacy, and in doing so I also encourage you to choose your words more carefully. I admit I also did not choose my words carefully, and my second response was far snarkier than I wanted it to be in hindsight.

    Lastly, you literally framed your statements as "We pay these guys a ton of money, irreversible brain damage is okay." I twisted no words.
    Fair enough points. You're right I definitely should have worded what I said differently.

    I think we all make that mistake with things far too often. Assuming how things went down (One way or the other) when we weren't there. We don't know for sure one way or the other and we never will. We can only make conclusions based on facts we know, but we never will know for sure. And as parties who only know what the media tells us, we definitely get quite a distorted view whatever the case is.

    That's something I personally want to try and better myself with and to stop taking a side so strongly when I really don't know all the facts. Or let alone have any real reason to have to argue them.

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