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Thread: General Football Discussion 2017-18

  1. #401
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    Nothing to do with Kovac then?

    I think Germany are set to go through that cycle of having to get the old out and bring in the new...and let's see how good the next generation of players are there.
    Oh, Kovac is part of it. He hasn't been tactically brilliant. But generally, you don't HAVE to be with Bayern because the quality shines through. That isn't happening. They also tend to get the rub of big decisions (not much different from how Juventus do) but that is happening less, for whatever reason.

    Full disclosure - I haven't watched every Bayern match this season. Part of it is from listening to several podcasts that focus on the Bundesliga to some level. None of them seem to think that Kovac is the root of the problem. The loss to Gladbach was one of those where they controlled everything, created some decent chances but make a couple of mistakes, got countered, and just couldn't convert. Lewandowski is out of form. Both Ribery and Robben seem to have slowed so they are still doing the same thing but without the pace that made them unplayable in the past. The defenders have been dicey, and Boateng seems to have outright declined, to the point where United and Mourinho wanting to buy him in the summer is basically a running joke.

    Its absolutely not just down to the German players who are underperforming. But they are and that is a big part of the problem.


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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Random note.... Apparently Ajax, Feyenoord, and PSV have decided to share European incomes with the rest of the Eredivsie. The intent is to help increase the overall quality of the league. Hard not to applaud the idea here. Those three already have a massive financial advantage over the rest of the league due to attendances and player sales, and being rich in a league like that stops mattering after a certain point, so this should be good for Dutch football as a whole.


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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    I thought they were just doing that to get rid of shitty pitches


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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by RainShaker View Post
    I thought they were just doing that to get rid of shitty pitches
    That might be what it comes down to. But a non-competitive league with a massive gap between the two club (or three) and the rest is not helpful when it comes to European competition. As Celtic well know. There is not a lot of money in the Dutch game at this point outside the big three and that's not getting better. Its part of what has contributed to the decline of the Dutch national team as well.


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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Random note.... Apparently Ajax, Feyenoord, and PSV have decided to share European incomes with the rest of the Eredivsie. The intent is to help increase the overall quality of the league. Hard not to applaud the idea here. Those three already have a massive financial advantage over the rest of the league due to attendances and player sales, and being rich in a league like that stops mattering after a certain point, so this should be good for Dutch football as a whole.
    Credit where it's due for that idea. Won't stop them poaching the best players each transfer window though haha.
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    Credit where it's due for that idea. Won't stop them poaching the best players each transfer window though haha.
    I did a bit of digging (not that deep), because I was under this impression as well. And it does happen. Always has and probably always will. But it looks like the Big Three aren't going after the teenaged talent from other Eredivisie clubs all that frequently. Here and there, but it over the past 5 or 6 years, its more frequently players in the 20 to 23 age range. And the prices paid are pretty solid money, for the most part. Even for the teenagers, the money isn't bad for Dutch standards - Ajax paying 2m for an 18 year old defender from a 2nd division club might look like chump change, especially if Schurrs develops and gets sold on to England or Germany for 30m in a few years. But that 2m is probably more than the annual operating budget for Fortuna Sittard. The 2nd tier of clubs (AZ, Vitesse, Gronigen, etc) poach players from the bottom tier of Eredivisie clubs quite frequently. No different from Germany or England in most ways.

    Dutch clubs lose a ton of talent abroad - every bigger league views them as a hunting ground. I think what did a lot of damage was when clubs were proactively going after the younger teenagers before they signed pro terms, so they were never able to play in the Eredivisie at a pro level and the compensation was rarely signficiant. Players like Nathan Ake, Karim Rekik, Jeffrey Bruma... and they fell into the "developmental system" of club like Chelsea and Man City, who were never going to give them a proper chance, just loan them out and look for a profit in selling them on. There were quite a few and not just by English clubs, from what I remember. Those didn't help the Eredivisie or the National Team

    Another factor that seems to hurt the National Team - and talent development - is the lack of focus that the Dutch football school has on physical development. I've read that its changing, but almost all of the focus was on technical and tactical development for younger teenager, and the result was a lot of pretty technically proficient young players who can't compete on a physical level.


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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Well the Dutch beat the Germans last night so something is working for them. Seems they have a nice blend of youth and experience at the moment so that bodes well for the next year or two.
    I have a plan so cunning......

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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    Well the Dutch beat the Germans last night so something is working for them. Seems they have a nice blend of youth and experience at the moment so that bodes well for the next year or two.
    Beat them soundly, too. 3-0. Some nice goals by the Dutch. Germany has 60% of the possession and way more shots but created little of quality. Germany has failed to score in three competitive matches in a row for the first time in Germany footballing history.

    Interesting to me that the World Cup performance was all down to Ozil, according to a bunch of German media. But yet he's no longer with the NT and here we are. Even weirder - some of the problems with the German NT kinda mirror some problems Bayern are seeing this season, as I've whined about before lol


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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Germany lacked a true out and out striker in that game last night. As good as Werner is domestically, I don't think he can lead the line on his own on the International stage. Mueller is starting to look past his best, and you can't put any blame on Uth on debut but I don't think he'll be able to lead the line properly either.
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    Germany lacked a true out and out striker in that game last night. As good as Werner is domestically, I don't think he can lead the line on his own on the International stage. Mueller is starting to look past his best, and you can't put any blame on Uth on debut but I don't think he'll be able to lead the line properly either.
    That is a big part. But its not the only problem. They don't create a ton of quality chances either. And they have defensive vulnerabilities that weren't there before. There seems to be something of a formula now to beating Germany.

    What I find interesting - besides the Ozil truthering lol - is that no one really seems all that sure about what is wrong or how to fix it. Is it doing to Lowe staying too long? A whole group of players - the Bayern ones - getting old and/or out of form at once? Poor selection? In the latter regard, Leroy Sane looked like a difference maker when he came on and his directness could have impacted the match earlier. One of my favorite football pundits, who is German in origin, compared it during the match to Klopp's final season at Dortmund where they spent the first several months of the season in the relegation zone and it was clear that MAJOR things were wrong, but no one could pinpoint what.


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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    I think it's a combination of things to be honest. Some of it will be down to the core group of players ageing and coming out of form at once, some of it will be down to coaches knowing how to play against them now, some of it will be down to Low being around so long without really adapting anything, and for me part of it will also be down to the fact that there are still too few German players playing elsewhere that gives them newer experiences and gets them used to different styles of play.
    I have a plan so cunning......

  12. #412
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Can't belive England have just beatvspain in the uefa nations league what a surprise haha , I'm over the moon before that we had one point now it's 1 win 1 draw 1 loss - 2nd with 4 points , Spain still top with 2 wins and one loss with 6 points Croatia have o wins 1 draw and 1 loss but have a game in hand by the looks of it Croatia are getting put in the next league down , Howay the lads , ENGLAND ahowing why on there Day were still one of the best in the world spain hadn't lost for ages till tonight , that will do me and most England footy fans ,

    Peace y'all.y
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  13. #413
    YES! YES! YES!

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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    And some people say La Liga > Premier League IT'S COMING HOME.

    Great result, there's talent in this young team for sure. It is incredible that Sterling would score twice in one game after that long drought. Cracking first finish.

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