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Thread: Trial By Fire 2017 PROMO DISCUSSION THREAD

  1. #21
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    Re: Trial By Fire 2017 PROMO DISCUSSION THREAD

    I didn't really know how to format my promo (insert sweat emoji here). I'll admit that my original draft had styles and colors, but I forgot to transfer them over when putting it on here. Thank you for the kind words and positive feedback <3! Y'all make a newbie feel welcome lol

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  2. #22
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    Re: Trial By Fire 2017 PROMO DISCUSSION THREAD

    See that last post? Ya'll know how to make a newbie feel welcome? That should tell you all right there the importance of feedbacking.

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    Re: Trial By Fire 2017 PROMO DISCUSSION THREAD

    Reviews as promised:

    Jhunha:
    As always, a solid read and well written. We discuss things regularly in PMs but I don't think I've really given you a ton of feedback on promos whilst you actually do for me so. Guess I'm paying you back the favour. I do enjoy promos from this sort of perspective and have written a few myselfs, I can see similarities but also differences in how we do it. I think, initially, Jhunha does come across as a little bit whiney and I find that a bit meh for a monster character. Though, you have said to me that you don't intend on Jhunha being a serious character so there's that. But then again, following a trope isn't exactly required, it just takes time for the reader to get used to. The Blue Sky stuff was a good example to use to get across Jhunha's thoughts on the FWA - it's Mongolian so fits the character. I dunno how I feel with the shots at management though. It feels a little like Jhunha's overly paranoid - not sure if that's what you're going for but I don't think it suits a destroyer type. That being said, the stuff about Kazadi was really good and Jhunha's threat is quite believable. I didn't quite know why Jhunha's so offended at being called a puppet and being in it for the money, though -- didn't he just say he beat someone up for money? And though he says he's not a dog, he comes across as very much a lapdog type to LT. But I am interested in seeing more of this. It was a solid promo even though a few things didn't click with me. If this Jhunha-LT partnership is continuing then you have to make it clear that Jhunha isn't his pet and he's his own man. I don't think the promo swayed too much towards winning the X belt compared to just smashing Kazadi... so I feel like that though Jhunha speaks about wanting the money, the fame, the fortune etc... it more came across that he just really wants to beat the shit out of Kazadi. I get that he views his way to that fame is through smashing Kazadi and whilst I felt that at points, I did also feel more of a dislike of Kazadi was prevalent. Not a negative but I'm not sure if that was what you were going for.

    Starr: Welcome to the FWA. Before I review, do you write your promo in word? If so, when you transfer it over here, right click and choose paste as plain text then click 'Go Advanced' to preview it. Then you can play around with the various format options, change colours etc. Regarding the promo, it's a little simplistic and could do with some coding but overall, it's not really a bad promo or anything. I kind of had present day Cody Rhodes in mind when I read through this. I think you said enough, there's really not a great ton you could go on with Risky. I definitely got an inflated ego feel from it though. I think you might have to write more descriptive stuff though and work on scene setting. Needs to be a little more elaborate - try adding a few things here and there, use imagery, describe what the scene looks like a little more. Imagine you're the reader and not the writer of the promo, what do you think needs to be added to paint a better picture? And so on. I look forward to seeing more from you though and I think Starr can be a good character for sure.

    Jason Randall: Randall has been a bit of a slow burn character - who is slowly but surely starting to get there and is starting to 'click' for me. I think the reason why Randall's development has stuttered slightly is because the character has failed to stand out at times. I feel like you go to the backstage interview thing a little bit too much. The promo set ups aren't eye catching enough -- BUT I do like how they are constantly wrestling centric and I could easily take parts of them and put them into a show more often than note. I think you do a good job at the general connectivity of Randall and what's happening around him in the FWA. I think you might be telegraphing the heelishness a little too much in the dialogue. I also think there needs to be some refinements so it doesn't read weird... I feel like Randall asking about why he's not being asked about his victory is cool... but adding the whole "on my own" part just makes it feel weird, to me. You could have omitted it and continued as normal then have Katie ask how Jason felt about Tommy Thunder's interference playing a role in his victory and continue on. I think you did a fine enough job of going at Zaire -- but I think you could've added in something more. I guess it's difficult if you're not really aware of the character's past so I am not too fussed about it. I agree with KAIZEN at the end - I know your intention and I think a promo where you 'fill in the gaps' so to speak would be welcome. Maybe show how Penny has changed Jason or something. But I think heel Randall can work and the idea has legs. A loose cannon with Penny whispering in his ear makes sense. I think having Randall show that he doesn't care about the fans anymore is something to do. Perhaps make him Penny-centric/she makes him a bit crazy. It's solid story but needs to be developed properly.


    The Olympians:
    I don't know if it was intentional but 'grand-grand' repetition isn't the right way to label it. 'Grand' is only ever used to describe 'Grandparent', the other words used would be 'Great'... so your grandparents parents are your 'great grandparents' , their parents are your 'great great grandparents' and so on. Not really a big deal but not sure if you knew this or not. I can understand using Zeus as more of a mouthpiece but I really do think Ares and Dionysus are going to have feature a little bit more imo. I feel like Zeus might be taking a little bit too much focus and attention away from them. Admittedly, some of the dialogue was quite funny, some came out of nowhere though - like the whole i'm not a racist thing. I think there's potential for a good story to be told but the pieces are too small right now so I'd like more. It's very interesting though if I am honest, I'm really curious. This didn't feel like a promo that wanted to win the match though. But given the tag division's shallowness and the Olympians being relative newcomers, I don't think that's a negative.


    More when I am done writing matches.
    Last edited by RainShaker; 01-28-2017 at 01:51 PM.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Trial By Fire 2017 PROMO DISCUSSION THREAD

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerfulShake View Post
    Reviews as promised:


    The Olympians: I don't know if it was intentional but 'grand-grand' repetition isn't the right way to label it.
    'Grand' is only ever used to describe 'Grandparent', the other words used would be 'Great'... so you're grandparents parents are your 'great grandparents' , their parents are your 'great great grandparents' and so on. Not really a big deal but not sure if you knew this or not. I can understand using Zeus as more of a mouthpiece but I really do think Ares and Dionysus are going to have feature a little bit more imo. I feel like Zeus might be taking a little bit too much focus and attention away from them. Admittedly, some of the dialogue was quite funny, some came out of nowhere though - like the whole i'm not a racist thing. I think there's potential for a good story to be told but the pieces are too small right now so I'd like more. It's very interesting though if I am honest, I'm really curious. This didn't feel like a promo that wanted to win the match though. But given the tag division's shallowness and the Olympians being relative newcomers, I don't think that's a negative.

    Thank you Shake, I didn't knew this so thanks for pointing that out. Also thanks for the feedback. You are right that this didn't feel like a promo that wanted to win the match because I feel like giving the titles to the Olympians so soon will only rush their push and everything rushed doesn't end well imo. I'd rather go with a slow build so the promos will get bigger as the story progresses.

    #WC4Horsemen

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    Re: Trial By Fire 2017 PROMO DISCUSSION THREAD

    More reviews:

    Leaving my opponent and Cyrus/KAI til last.



    Zachary Kazadi: I liked this. It flows well and has the podcast feel to it. I could believe it was a transcript - just like KAI pointed out. I do like the references to things outwith the match and generally making the universe 'come alive' so to speak. It doesn't feel like the match/Kazadi exists in a vacuum plus it'd bore me to tears if Kazadi just spoke about the match throughout the entirety of this. It's a good way to get his personality out. I do think early on that the focus kind of shifted away from the match a little bit and tended to focus on lots of other things though. I think I would have preferred it if Kazadi started off talking about the matchup and stuff but I can understand why it came later as a way of building to something. But the focus did definitely shift around the place - I can understand why people say it's directionless in a way but I also feel like it isn't entirely directionless. I think Kazadi makes it very clear he's about wrestling and about being the better man and all that stuff so to me, that feels like somewhat of a direction. Ultimately, though, it feels like a promo of two halves to me and not one complete promo. As I said above, I'd prefer if the start was speaking about the match but really I would have preferred if you managed to mix both whilst keeping a major focus on the X title match. Another thing that felt weird reading the promo is that I'm not sure if I am supposed to like Kazadi or not. He is very straight shooting, which is respectable, but he is also a massive assclown at times. It leaves me wondering whether I want to see him or his opponent win. The promo spoke about the match well enough and related some good backstory to it and so on but I also think it came across a little bit smarky and would be difficult for some people to relate to. There were times when it felt like more of a commentary on wrestling in the real world than it did in the FWA universe. At that, I do feel like that might hurt Kazadi a little - he speaks about wanting to be a proper wrestler and stuff but it also opens up the reader to question why he's in the FWA overall if there's a variety of problems he has with it. I think it's ok for the most part but I'd be careful about turning Kazadi or any future interviewers into FWA criticism breeding grounds as it might be counter productive. It wasn't here though but it's definitely something to question. Overall, fine job but I think Kazadi needs a proper storyline to really define his character and flesh it out. I'm sure it will come soon

    Eyesnsane: I think you've done well with the situation you have had and I think you have raised your own stock too. I think this is possibly the most interested I have ever been in the Eyesnsane character outside of his beef with Kennedy. Perhaps it's because you have had space to breathe and really allow the Eyes character to get over without anyone else hampering it. The promo also introduces plot threads that allow the story to continue. Personally, I can't stand the Gabby-Eyes dialogue together, it just feels cheesy and I'm kind of past the overly sexualised dialogue/relationship between the two. It just doesn't add much to the story anymore outside of Gabby being his manager. I'm perfectly fine with Gabby's involvement - it works, but the sexual stuff just doesn't need to be there. It's hard to take Eyes serious when he's being Austin Powers half the time. If Alana's return wasn't in the first part of this promo then it could just do without it altogether and still be the same promo. I actually think Alana's return is cheapened slightly by it in all honesty. But mostly, the Gabby stuff doesn't feel like progression anymore and comes across as pointless filler. The second half of this promo is really good though. You had a theme that fit your opponents and you also had Eyes continue to be the asshole character. There's not much I can really give a negative for here though I do think that with the introduction of Alana, you're probably going to start heading in a different direction eventually and so the Eye in Team shtick is going to run thin. So I'd be careful on relying on it.

    Tommy Thunder: Pretty much standard stuff. Hard to review stuff like this. Just be careful about doing backstage interviews constantly as you might lose points for creativity, even if you nail all the dialogue and stuff. I think the Jericho inspiration is pretty obvious and I'm not sure if it's a good thing. I like Jericho and he's super funny but I think you might want to try and differentiate just a little bit to the point that the dialogue doesn't feel so close to Jericho. I do think that a Jericho like heel can be good fun though. I'll look out for more work in future but I'd like to see some progression and maybe know what goals the character has as well as motivations etc.

    Tristan James Galloway: Using Romeo is smart and definitely provides some sort of link up between CWA and the FWA universe but I feel like you could have been a little smarter about it. You could haveused that part of the segment to lay down questions that Galloway would answer in the second part. I feel like the questions were... kind of just left there and I thought it was a set up for Galloway to speak about certain things. But it never happened. Romeo said stuff about how the Olympians were ahead of him despite being signed at the same time as him - does he think anything substantial about that? Does it make him want to prove himself more? Surely he has some sort of response in his mind to the points that Romeo brought up. I think Tristan brushing Romeo off showed him to be a good guy but I think not addressing some of the things Romeo brought up is a missed opportunity to display that further. I guess that might be the disadvantage of being a silent brooding type - but you could have easily conveyed what Galloway thought in his mind rather than speaking out loud and responding to Romeo. The monologue part is fine for me, I can definitely feel the character has a unique voice and story through what you've said. It's a bit of a tragic/mature topic to deal with so I can hope you handle it with care but I think it would definitely bring fans to be behind Galloway for sure. There wasn't really much to say about your opponent since you've faced him quite a bit since coming in and they haven't exactly been active or given you much to work off of. Overall, solid job - just wish you did more in the first half as it felt like Tristan wasn't really a focus there and Romeo was.

    Mike Parr: Firstly, the font for the italic part needed to be bigger, I was straining my eyes to read it. But maybe that's just me. The opening wasn't really there for me if I am honest - up until the end. The fact Parr changed emotion at that moment kind of told me that it was probably going to be a relevant point later on in the promo or some sort of reference. The reason why I say I didn't care about the opening much is because I didn't feel like this would be the sort of match where Parr I'm not exactly sure where Parr was in the present so I can't comment on that - either I am missing something or it's to be explained in future. I feel like, reading this, that Parr is still somewhat of an unwitting face. He's definitely sharp tongued but somewhat likeable in a way, I think. Only barely. Ultimately, the promo style and the crowd reactions don't mix well which is not really on you but it is something I noticed with the Parr character. I think he's destined to be at the top - and the character certainly knows that but I think that the disregard for the NA title is slightly damaging. I think you worked the concept well - and used relevant history to get points across - but something just didn't sit right with me with Parr speaking about the NA title and only now caring about defending it because Garcia was trying to take it. It's kind of like he hinted at it being an obstacle to him fulfilling his true destiny... yet he's perfectly ok with helping keep that obstacle in place? As I said - you did good stuff making the story relate to the content of the promo but I think the actual point of the promo may have been a little... misplaced. I think I would have preferred it if you had gone down the route of putting Garcia in his place (which you more or less did) but also, rather than making the NA title out to be something holding Parr back, you should have made it out like the NA title is the REAL number one title because he's holding it. Could've spoke about how Parr would showcase himself to be on a completely other level to Garcia to the point people WISH he was in the main event. Speak about how even though he holds the NA title, he's coming for the World title and prove that he was always the best champion and so on. But for what you did, it was solid imo and fairly enjoyable. Just some logic failure in my mind here and there.

    Michael Garcia: I will agree with KAIZEN that you needed to put out a different type of promo for this match. The first segment does nothing for me in wanting to see Garcia win. It's cool that you're trying to develop the character and change up the perception of him but I don't think this was the time to do it. Garcia doesn't need that love story motivation to want to win the belt - he's already proven himself to be an egotistical big guy who likes to be a bit of a party pooper (like with Rondo's return). I guess I've said this for a few promos but yeah, the second half is better. Still some problems, in my mind. I find it weird how Garcia doesn't want to see Lexi because he needs to 'focus' yet he is welcoming in Jeremiah for a conversation. I mean, if you took Jeremiah out and subbed in Lexie - what's the difference? If he is able to speak to Jeremiah about all this stuff then why could Lexie not just be the one he bounced things off of? It would have been slightly better because she is present at the start of the promo too and you'd continue to develop their interactions. I don't think you displayed enough of Lexie to show me that she would be a detriment to Michael's focus. All I know is that Michael thinks she'd give him trouble for not attending the meet and greet. I can understand that. I think not attending the meet and greet is heelish but shows Garcia's need to focus. But it's undone by him simply telling Jeremiah that he can tell Lexie where he is anyway. If he doesn't care that she knows where he is then why does he act like he doesn't want to be bothered by her? The logic is just quite fallible. I wrote a lot on this but It's not massive. But you're guilty of displaying some flaws in logic from time to time and it can really make it hard to buy into the promo when that happens. However, I do think what you said about Parr was actually really well done... for the most part. I think the stuff about the golden child is fine and logical but I feel like there are too many promos taking shots at Ashley O'Ryan as well as higher ups and the management in general. It feels unoriginal and uninspired when alot of characters seem to be blaming those for the shortcomings. The flash in the pan stuff is very valid though. I liked that alot. The Gryphon stuff was a bit of an eye roller tbh. I don't care for Gryphon anymore, I don't care to hear about Garcia's thoughts on Gryphon anymore. Jason Gryphon was not someone you should have spoke about in this promo. You spoke about this being Garcia's coming out party - no, you should have changed it up slightly. You should have spoke about how this was the next champer in the ascension of Michael Garcia - a sign that things were truly changing. Same with Vincent and whatnot. I don't think we needed a trip that far back down memory lane. No, you needed to be much more recent than that. Have Garcia still be heel. There are parts of this promo where it tries to make me want Garcia to win and that's not what he, as a character, is all about. I don't want to connect with the character in that way, I want him to feel like a threat. Ultimately, it wasn't as successful as it could have been. You should have spoken about how Garcia is sick of being viewed as a joke and how you've been changing in that recent weeks - and things are only going to continue to change. The heroes must die stuff was fine for this but you should have spoken about how recently Garcia has crushed Golden, he beat Rondo - he's shown that he has the mettle for dealing with big names. Even if there are flaws in logic, it doesn't matter because Garcia's exactly the sort of heel who would make leaps in logic and get people to dislike him for it. Compare this promo to how Garcia acts on twitter - then compare Kazadi's to how he acts on twitter - do you see a difference in the two? Kazadi in his promo feels like the Kazadi on twitter. The Garcia in this promo doesn't fit the Garcia in the twitter threads. You needed to speak more about recent conquests than past conquests to get across the point that Garcia is making a change and you didn't do it enough to make me feel like Garcia is a threat. Garcia has spoken about beating Gryphon before, beating Blackbird before.... it didn't work in the past so why would it work now? The Garcia character needs to stop rehashing these sort of things to make progress. I hope this all makes sense. Now with this defeat, you have scope to change the Garcia character and his mindset and allow this story with Lexie play out. Develop their relationship, make sure the reader can understand how it affects Garcia inside and outside of the ring and see if you can piece it all together to add a new dimension to the character that might finally get him over the line.

    Phillip A. Jackson: Welcome back buddy. Opening was simple enough - but I do like that it shows PAJ as being broken down compared to what he used to be. A complete change of mindset. I liked the looking for a reason stuff - fit the storyline very well. I think the middle segment had good intentions behind it but it felt a little rushed. I actually think it would have been amazing if you had portrayed it as if PAJ had become so desolate and wrapped up in doubt that he'd invented this Psychiatrist persona to help him find answers. But seems he is a real dude. I do find it funny how PAJ is instantly cured when he realises he needs to destroy Ryan Rondo. Some might find it a negative that there's no fleshed out realisation but I think it's very PAJ-like especially concerning Rondo I also like that the gym being returned to normality feels very... poetic? Metaphorically cool? I don't know how to express it but it's not in your face, it's a subtle hint and it's smart. The dialogue in this promo is good. I enjoyed it - even though my character is mostly the target of it. I enjoyed it because it's very clear the PAJ character has changed and gone through a transformation. I do like how you spoke about it also being payback on the shortcomings... it's almost a bit of a redemption arc. I actually thought PAJ's dialogue regarding Rondo being under pressure and having to face a boogeyman was outstanding. PAJ making it out to be the FWA and not him was smart. But the best part wasn't PAJ making it about revenge for the belt - just more that he doesn't like Rondo. I do think the one negative is saying you thought the history is irrelevant -- because you mentioned the pair having history earlier on in the promo and so it feels that isn't quite true. It would have been better to just leave out saying the history is irrelevant and simply have just said PAJ won't dwell on the past shortcomings and failures and instead would forge a new future and so on. But it was solid enough. I disagree about some of the length complaints with this promo - it did its job. It suited the feud and explained everything perfectly well imo. We both know this feud isn't a one and done so keeping some stuff by is fine for me but writing long epics was never your forte and you were always a shorter length guy. Fine by me. Nice job sir.

    Cyrus Truth: I'll say this flatout before I review: This promo really makes me want Rondo-Truth III. But only Rondo in his current, face iteration. I will elaborate on that later on. I've always been a fan of your promos and promo style. They remind me of older style FWA promos in a way - long monologous epics. But as I've said before, you've got a really good command of your character to the point that his dialogue is really easy to get invested in. I also like the very noticeable turn from being someone that the fans are going to cheer for to someone who is going to be booed... but Cyrus hasn't really changed his values - he's still the same person. I think the opening - if done by someone else, I probably wouldn't enjoy it much. Toner might be able to do it but I'd still be a bit meh on it - because it works to me that the main point of it is that Cyrus wasn't a FWA guy originally. This promo kind of feels like it crosses a fourth wall to me but not really. It's hard to explain. How he feels that the FWA never wanted him to be champion in the first place, that sort of stuff. I'm not able to pick holes in the logic displayed throughout alot of the promo - if at all and that is a very good sign. I love how Cyrus speaks with such taunting vitriol after making his realisation - again it's different from how he usually is, imo. But it's still great and works for the character. And it feels natural. I do think Cyrus has been vilified a little bit when he shouldn't have been -- so I can understand why the character speaks about that. It makes sense to me. Alot of the dialogue does. There's nothing for me to really pick holes in. The best thing is that you're not going for cheap heat - you're fully explaining your characters motivations and how he feels throughout this storyline. It's all relevant, it all works. You aren't disregarding your opponent flat out. You are building them up and tearing them down. It all works - and you build yourself up to quite a nice and simple crescendo. Not only that but the ending slams home the point amazingly well. A really good ending. This was outstanding work and it's a contender for promo of the year. Along with your opponent. Great job, Big Mike! As for the Rondo-Truth III stuff, Cyrus' rhetoric is a big spit in the face to the FWA and I think Rondo, would want to defend it. There's potential in that but I think a title shot is out of Rondo's reach right now. It's not something I am personally interested in either.

    KAIZEN: I said I gave both promos high scores - yet both felt so different. Cyrus was so centrally focused whereas this felt a little more... explorative. I will say that I can see TGO's point on overload. I think he might be right here but I can also understand that you've got different characters in KAI's universe and you like to make use of them to get across different ideas and points - so I can see the need for multiple scenes. Just as long as none of them feel like a chore to get through, I think it can be ok. The first scene - yes, I did question the need for it a bit. It does show how serious KAI is taking this match as he's sparring with a mountain of a man and all that stuff. I kind of got the idea from it that KAI is quite human now compared to his heelish version - he jumps out of the ring for this little girl, so it comes off to me like he isn't entirely title hungry, he's more concerned with fans... if that makes sense. But it also can be detrimental in that it displays a slight lack of focus I guess. It's a weird one. It may not have been entirely necessary but depending how you look at it, it could benefit or take away from the promo. It benefitted for me. Only slightly. Not like it made a major impact. It made me view him in a faceish light. Alison scene was a really good callback. The first two scenes are pretty much a set up, not entirely super important but I do like the small displays of humanity that you can gleam from them. I think it shows the transformation KAIZEN has made -- but I do think the second half of this promo (fuck me i keep saying this) is much better and is definitely where the promo starts to shine. I guess most promos are like that though I thought the Alison scene really hammered home getting the humanity out of KAIZEN and making him realise just what it means to be 'good' and why he does what he does. I think the fb group was a really smart idea. It opens up KAIZEN's eyes and brings about that motivation to win the belt again - to take it away from bad man Cyrus T and make people happy. It's a simple motivation but it works. And from a meta standpoint, you nailed Cyrus with Alison's observations - he's not a big mean bully, at least he hasnt been at this point. To me, it felt fitting that this wasn't a vilification of Cyrus -- but it is also fitting that it's not KAIZEN making the observation there. Either KAIZEN never thought about it or he didn't want to admit it. He learned something. There's some reward in him ditching his training then. I am confused as to why he chose not to go Cyrus though - because he realised Alison liked him? I think if you take this scene and add it into the next, both work well together. I feel like that, without one, the other suffers -- because you've opened KAIZEN up to appearing extremely human and sensitive in both. At least in my opinion anyway. It's largely the humanising aspect in this promo that wins through -- and the very down to earth approach from KAIZEN is what makes it very likeable and enjoyable. It's what makes you want to win. I do think you should have touched on Cyrus being a little more misunderstood and what Alison had said to KAI about him in this scene. It would've been a way to keep them linked a little bit better. But like Cyrus' promo, I think it jumped to a good crescendo whilst looking at a variety of things. But I do think that going forward, you might have to tunnel vision it a bit more because the promo is a lot to process and if I wasn't into the KAIZEN character then it'd be very difficult to enjoy. But it was a really good read and it felt like an extremely faceish promo that attacked the opponent too but not to the point that I thought KAIZEN seemed like a bad guy or anything. It put KAIZEN over huge, it put over his intentions and motivations and it made me invested. Great stuff.

    Both world title promos made me seriously invested in the match and their feud. I cannot wait for more. It has the chance to really be a feud of the year contender so far and both promos have set a high bar for 2017 already.

    Peace.
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    ~~HAVE A NICE DAY~~
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  6. #26
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    Re: Trial By Fire 2017 PROMO DISCUSSION THREAD

    Thank you for the feedback I was hoping he came off a bit more bond like than Powers but I get what you mean there's some stuff that should evolve the Eyes - Gabby stuff ... I'm looking forward to what's coming and working with things this has been a different and fun run for Eyes and I keep trying to find ways to push him to be more of an asshole... I got some good food for thought to go on Shake I appreciate it

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