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Thread: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

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    NJPW NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    The New Beginning In Sapporo - 5/2/17

    Hirai Kawato & KUSHIDA vs. El Desperado & Yoshinobu Kanemaru


    Yuji Nagata, Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Henare, David Finlay & Yoshitatsu


    Tiger Mask, Jushin Liger & Katsuyori Shibata vs. Jado, Gedo & Will Ospreay


    YOSHI-HASHI vs. Takashi Iizuka


    Dragon Lee, Manabu Nakanishi, Ryusuke Taguchi, Hiroshi Tanahashi & Michael Elgin vs. Hiromu Takahashi, EVIL, BUSHI, SANADA & Tetsuya Naito


    IWGP Jr. Tag Team Championship
    RPG Vice (c) vs. TAKA Michinoku & Taichi


    IWGP Tag Team Championship
    Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano (c) vs. Great Bash Heel vs. Killer Elite Squad


    NEVER Openweight Championship
    Hirooki Goto (c) vs. Juice Robinson


    IWGP Heavyweight Championship
    Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Minoru Suzuki
    The New Beginning In Osaka - 11/02/17

    Hirai Kawato & Yoshitatsu vs. David Finlay & Henare


    Satoshi Kojima, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & KUSHIDA vs. El Desperado, Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Takashi Iizuka


    Tiger Mask, Jushin Liger, Yuji Nagata & Juice Robinson vs. Jado, Gedo, YOSHI-HASHI & Hirooki Goto


    RPG Vice & Kazuchika Okada vs. TAKA Michinoku, Taichi & Minoru Suzuki


    NEVER Openweight 6-Man Tag Championship
    Manabu Nakanishi, Hiroshi Tanahashi & Ryusuke Taguchi (c) vs. BUSHI, EVIL & SANADA


    If Shibata retains vs. Riddle, this match is for the RPW Championship
    Katsuyori Shibata vs. Will Ospreay


    IWGP Tag Team Championship
    Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano vs. Great Bash Heel vs. Killer Elite Squad


    IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championship
    Hiromu Takahashi (c) vs. Dragon Lee


    IWGP Intercontinental Championship
    Tetsuya Naito (c) vs. Michael Elgin
    ----------------
    Some potentially great matches over the two nights with Shibata/Ospreay, Lee/Hiromu, Juice/Goto and that 5 on 5 with LIJ against Tanahashi and friends could be great too.

    Not sure if that's a mistake with the IWGP Tag titles being on the line twice because that's an exact repeat otherwise.

    Iizuka being the first Suzuki-Gun member to have a singles match is bizarre, but loose explosion might be able to make it work!

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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    On the tag match, I forget where I read it but it's not a mistake.

    Shibata/Ospreay is the big sell for me. Really into Hiromu/Lee too though since Lee is here for a limited time, I presume, there are other people I'd love to see him go at.

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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Really tasty matches on paper for this card. Goto/Juice, Okada/Suzuki, Elgin/Naito, Shibata/Ospreay, and Lee/Hiromu are really eye opening. All have the potential to be really good. A few other matches too.
    -------
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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Notable is the complete lack of Bullet Club on these shows.


    I'm off to London again, this time on two wheels. See here for more & to donate see below.




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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Curious for Suzuki/Okada. Want Suzuki to win but feel like Okada would win the NJ Cup in that case and can't be having that imo. Feel like the NJ Cup is for Shibata (doubtful now) or Omega to win. Maybe Suzuki wins and Okada doesn't compete but I doubt it. Can't see Omega winning NJ Cup if Okada retains though so fuck knows.





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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Anyone been following the WK11 to New Beginning shows and want to let me know which matches to watch?

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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Seeing as there's only one Road to NBG show on NJPWWorld... slim pickings. Not sure if you mean Fantastica Mania or not so left that out.


    NY Dash
    KUSHIDA & Elgin vs Naito & Hiromu
    CHAOS vs GBH, Juice, Shibata & Nagata
    NEVER Six Man Tag

    Nothing really must see on DASH but those were my favourite matches really. Rest were skippable.


    Road to New Beginning
    KES vs TenKoji
    CHAOS vs GBH, Shibata & the Juice
    Tanahashi, KUSHIDA, Taguchi, Nakanishi and Elgin vs Los Ingobernables de Japon
    CHAOS vs Suzuki-gun


    Same as DASH, nothing really must see. Though the CHAOS vs GBH, Shibata and Juice match had some fun interactions.





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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerfulShake View Post
    Seeing as there's only one Road to NBG show on NJPWWorld... slim pickings. Not sure if you mean Fantastica Mania or not so left that out.


    NY Dash
    KUSHIDA & Elgin vs Naito & Hiromu
    CHAOS vs GBH, Juice, Shibata & Nagata
    NEVER Six Man Tag

    Nothing really must see on DASH but those were my favourite matches really. Rest were skippable.


    Road to New Beginning
    KES vs TenKoji
    CHAOS vs GBH, Shibata & the Juice
    Tanahashi, KUSHIDA, Taguchi, Nakanishi and Elgin vs Los Ingobernables de Japon
    CHAOS vs Suzuki-gun


    Same as DASH, nothing really must see. Though the CHAOS vs GBH, Shibata and Juice match had some fun interactions.
    Everything between the two so FantasticaMania included. Whatever is available on NJPWWorld.

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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Fantastica Mania shows are kind of worth watching in full tbh cause theyre usually just super fun altogether.

    But specific matches I liked

    20th


    LIJ vs Tanahashi and his crew
    Juice, Mistico and Volador vs Okada, Euforia and Ultimo Guerrero
    Titan vs Hiromu
    Dragon Lee vs Barbaro Cavernario

    21st

    LIJ vs Tanahashi's crew (again)
    Euforia and Ultimo Guerrero vs Mistico and Volador


    22nd


    BUSHI & Hiromu vs Dragon Lee & Titan
    CHAOS & Ephesto vs Juice, Maximo and Taguchi
    LIJ vs Tanahashi and friends (yes once more)
    Euforia vs Mistico
    Ultimo Guerrero vs Volador





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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerfulShake View Post
    Fantastica Mania shows are kind of worth watching in full tbh cause theyre usually just super fun altogether.

    But specific matches I liked

    20th


    LIJ vs Tanahashi and his crew
    Juice, Mistico and Volador vs Okada, Euforia and Ultimo Guerrero
    Titan vs Hiromu
    Dragon Lee vs Barbaro Cavernario

    21st

    LIJ vs Tanahashi's crew (again)
    Euforia and Ultimo Guerrero vs Mistico and Volador


    22nd


    BUSHI & Hiromu vs Dragon Lee & Titan
    CHAOS & Ephesto vs Juice, Maximo and Taguchi
    LIJ vs Tanahashi and friends (yes once more)
    Euforia vs Mistico
    Ultimo Guerrero vs Volador
    If I had time to watch them all I 100% would but I think you've heard me complain about time enough already. Thanks! I'll try and stuff these matches in when I can.

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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Did no-one watch the first show? Doesn't say a lot for the post WK hype that I'm the first person to bump the thread 2 days after the show.

    Overall it wasn't a great show, the majority of Chaos VS Suzuki-Gun matches weren't good, Yoshi-Hashi/Iizuka was bad. LiJ Vs Tanahashi and friends was a lot of fun and got me hyped for Lee/Takahashi. Goto/Juice was good and probably a career best match for Juice, but I have to say the match was lacking in excitement for me because I didn't buy into Juice winning at any point.

    Suzuki/Okada was probably another polarizing Okada title match, but I really enjoyed it. There was absolutely no need for the match to go over 40 minutes, I wanted Suzuki's matches to get shorter, not longer now he's out of NOAH. SuperCena has become SuperOkada, he really had to overcome all the odds in this one. I thought the leg work by Suzuki was tremendous and Okada did his best to wrestle that long selling the injury, can't recall many moments where he shrugged it off and started running around, it's like he wrestled the match trying to do as little walking/running as humanly possible which I enjoyed. That final stretch where Suzuki countered the rainmaker into a leg submission I bought as a nearfall, also they teased Gedo throwing in the towel pretty well. Didn't need to see 3 rainmakers, but I guess that plays into Okada being so fucked he couldn't just pin straight away. Suzuki-Gun already feel a little dead in the water with Chaos going 3-0 over them in title matches, which I'm not gonna complain about because Suzuki-Gun winning all the titles would lead me to cancelling New Japan World at this stage.

    I think the 2nd show will be much better, but probably won't have any match I think is as good as Suzuki/Okada.

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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Did no-one watch the first show? Doesn't say a lot for the post WK hype that I'm the first person to bump the thread 2 days after the show.

    Overall it wasn't a great show, the majority of Chaos VS Suzuki-Gun matches weren't good, Yoshi-Hashi/Iizuka was bad. LiJ Vs Tanahashi and friends was a lot of fun and got me hyped for Lee/Himoru. Goto/Juice was good and probably a career best match for Juice, but I have to say the match was lacking in excitement for me because I didn't buy into Juice winning at any point.

    Suzuki/Okada was probably another polarizing Okada title match, but I really enjoyed it. There was absolutely no need for the match to go over 40 minutes, I wanted Suzuki's matches to get shorter, not longer now he's out of NOAH. SuperCena has become SuperOkada, he really had to overcome all the odds in this one. I thought the leg work by Suzuki was tremendous and Okada did his best to wrestle that long selling the injury, can't recall many moments where he shrugged it off and started running around, it's like he wrestled the match trying to do as little walking/running as humanly possible which I enjoyed. That final stretch where Suzuki countered the rainmaker into a leg submission I bought as a nearfall, also they teased Gedo throwing in the towel pretty well. Didn't need to see 3 rainmakers, but I guess that plays into Okada being so fucked he couldn't just pin straight away. Suzuki-Gun already feel a little dead in the water with Chaos going 3-0 over them in title matches, which I'm not gonna complain about because Suzuki-Gun winning all the titles would lead me to cancelling New Japan World at this stage.

    I think the 2nd show will be much better, but probably won't have any match I think is as good as Suzuki/Okada.
    Skipped the second part of your show just to say: I was going to watch it yesterday but decided to catch up to NOAH first. I know Shake said he'll watch it in the weekend. I did renew NJPW World so I do expect to watch it some time soon.

    I will say there isn't a lot hugely exciting for me getting back in that I want to see. It doesn't feel like there are new interesting stories to be told at the moment.

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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Avoiding reading comments in thread that are too long -- I only know YOSHI goes over Iizuka and Okada goes over Suzuki due to spoiling by accident. But yeah, probably going to be hungover as fuck on Sunday so will lie in bed and probably watch both shows back to back with a mega munch and a lot of weed.

    Ospreay is going to get the living shit kicked out of him, I think. But it's going to be glorious.


    Saw Okada's been mentioning Tiger Mask W recently. Interesting.





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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Thought the undercard was pretty unlikable, even though Yoshitatsu actually looked the best he has in quite some time in his match and Oka and Nagata look really good together. Liked Kawato's fire in the opener. I wasn't into any of the SZKG juniors action, definitely not Taichi. Iizuka/YH was an utter waste of everyone's time and the fact that it happened already tells me they don't have big plans for YOSHI-HASHI going forward.

    I really liked Goto/Juice but think Ed's right that there wasn't a lot of drama to say the least. I really thought they made the best of it though, really worked hard to get things going, Juice showed a lot of fire and something on Twitter that endears me to Goto is the way he always tries to do different things and makes his matches feel different unlike a lot of others worldwide who sometimes feel like they're on an infinite loop for the most part.

    I thought the main event had its merits, in particular Suzuki's work in the match, the smart start and finishing stretch, and I'm glad they avoided the temptation to give Suzuki to win after SZKG's rough night beforehand. But that said, I thought the match kinda fell apart in the middle due to Okada's selling. Watching his selective selling where he's doing great and really putting things over like earlier on to him doing good and running around and hitting dropkicks (A Japanese fan said on Twitter that Okada must be a Dropkick Master to hit it after all the damages taken, and then I said I was hoping for a Kung Fu style movie regarding Okada and his Dropkick like Karate Kid) just took me way out of it. And to me Suzuki did all this to his leg which took up a significant portion of the match and it ultimately felt meaningless to the final conclusion. Also thought the run-in was poorly timed and cut off momentum at a critical point. And this is ultimately a minor nitpick but I didn't like Okada doing his hold onto the hand after the Rainmaker. That was a special callback and him doing it over and over just feels a little too cute imo. But that said, there was excitement to be had and I'm not sure where I rate this, compared to Okada/Omega I felt its flaws were different. Okada/Omega lost me because it was boring and felt flat, this was flawed at a basic level though I enjoyed a lot of Suzuki's performance here. I'm probably leaning towards Okada/Omega as better at this point but these aren't matches I'll be remembering forever by any means. Also to have Okada get this level of protection is silly. Misawa didn't get this much shine in NOAH and it's easy to see why people get annoyed by this megapush. It just came across as too over the top imo.

    I didn't watch the tag special or whatever that was but I'll get to TNB part II when it comes out.

    Star ratings:
    Spoiler:

    Opener: **1/2
    Tenzan/Kojima/Nagata vs. Henare/Oka/Yoshitatsu: **3/4
    CHAOS/Shibata & LEGEND: *3/4
    YOSHI-HASHI/Iizuka: *
    Team Tana vs. LIJ: ***1/2
    Jr Tag Titles: *1/2
    Goto/Juice: ****
    Tag Titles: **3/4
    Okada/Suzuki: ***
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    Okada vs. Suzuki was really good, but I felt it went on a little too long. Suzuki's work on Okada's knee was great and, for the most part, so was Okada's selling, especially in the kneebar. This is a comparison that might make no sense, but it reminded me of Johnny Valentine. That whole kneebar spot went from good to great, sank down to boring and overdone, but because he went so long and the selling, on both parts, was so good, it went right back up to being great. It was something very old-school, but I can understand why some might have been turned off. Okada's long-term selling was a disappointment because it took some of the edge off what they accomplished with the knee bar spot, but it didn't hurt too much.

    Shibata vs. Ospreay was good but not great. It finished right when it felt like it was time to kick it into high gear. Naito vs. Elgin turned into a great match, but I was hoping for an Elgin win because I'm tired with Naito as IC champion and in general.



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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Watching NG-Sapporo right now. Pretty pumped for a lot of these matches.

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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    I've found time to watch the big three matches from yesterday's show. I felt like Ospreay/Shibata and Dragon Lee/Himoru were both excellent in their own way while Naito/Elgin was good, twice as long as it needed to be and had too many false finishes for the sake of forcing an epic. New Japan used to be the haven for protecting finishers but those days are long gone, it took 3 rainmakers last week for Okada to beat Suzuki (although I can accept that in a vacuum because of the story in the match) but why on earth does Naito need to hit about 4 Destinos to retain the IC belt against Elgin, it wasn't that big a match or rivalry.

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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Sopporo thoughts:

    Opening tag. Kind of a waist of Kushida in my opinion. Desperado & Kanemaru are great at being annoying, and they did a good job with Kawato. He looked pretty solid even with the loss.

    Instead of Finlay and Young Lions, we're subjected to Yoshitatsu, who is just painfully awful. But like the first match, they made the lions look decent.

    Probably the worst match IMO. Iizuka's gimmick wears out after 30 seconds. They did their best, and I'm glad Hasi got the win. But this match was dull and unimpressive.

    Probably my favorite match. The pageantry was awesome. Dragon Lee and Hiromu's feud is great. Both guys are awesome. Taguchi making fun of LIJ was pretty funny, but he still sucks. Elgin looked so badass in this too.

    Taka and especially Taichi are great at being annoying dicks. Suzuki Gun did a lot of interference and cheating in this, I actually kind of thought they might win at certain points. Trent took a decent beating as well. Decent match.

    Archer spitting tons of water on everyone was pretty funny. Aside from that, this was by the numbers and forgettable. Yano is so annoying to me. It's hard to boo the heels when I just want to see someone kick his stupid ass.

    Go to and Juice was pretty intense. They had a pretty nice and believable back and fourth. The finish was a bit meh, but everything else was on point. I like Juice a lot, especially when he yells and cusses.

    Main event was a little too long but overall enjoyable. Suzuki looked really strong, evil, and badass but he had his submissions locked in too long IMO. It felt like he should have easily won. Still, really fun with Suzuki's mannerisms and attitude. Okada going bezerk was nice too.

    Pretty fun memorable show based around Suzuki Gun. Even though they only got one win, but were billed as super evil badasses.


    Osaka thoughts:

    Opener was decent enough. Henare looked alright in his loss to Taka who they said was wrestling sick with the flu.

    I guess this is kind of a heel turn for YoshiTatsu. He was uncharacteristically aggressive to start the match, although the crowd was dead and didn't seem to care like they did about other happenings throughout the show. At the end he attacked Kohima, so I guess that's a thing now? Eh.

    Eight man tag was quick, to the point, and kind of fun. Juice continues to look solid, he picked up the win.

    More Suzuki-Gun BS in the six man tag. Lots of cheating, with Taichi and Kanemaru setting up to face Roppongi for the straps. Nothing too memorable.

    Six man Never had more theatrics with the mocking of LIJ, who would go on to win the titles. Had some nice spots and moments for okay stuff.

    Shibata/Ospreay was slower in pace that I anticipated but still really good. A nice back and fourth between Will's flippy-doo shit and no nonsense striking. Very entertaining throughout.

    IWGP three way tag was crap. Almost the same match as Sapporo minus Archer who is injured. Same stupid finish with Yano. Ugh.

    Hiromu and Lee, wow, what a rocket buster of a match. Possibly my vote for MOTN. This one did not drag or disappoint. Some really crazy, cringe worthy, and brutal looking spots. I'm iffy about Taguchi challenging Takahashi, but after his normal BS he kind of teased a straight up no nonsense kick your ass attitude so hopefully there's more of that instead of silly crap.

    The main event was awesome as well. Just Elgin and Naito going to war and attempting to tear the house down. Crowd was super fired up. My only criticism was Elgin selling the shit out of his knee for the first half, then forgetting about it all together and never selling it again. Had a couple more finisher esque false finishes then it probably needed, but still really solid and fun.
    Last edited by BlackTiger; 02-12-2017 at 05:41 PM.

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    Re: NJPW The New Beginning - February 5th/11th 2017

    Just read that BIG DAVE gave Naito/Elgin *****. Hilarious. I heard he had a bit of a NJPW bias but between this and Okada/Omega i'm actually beginning to see for myself that it's true.

    It was a fun match but just like at WK11 (re Okada/Omega) it wasn't even the best match on the night for me. Takahashi/Dragon lee was by far the better match and clear MOTN. Unlike Elgin/Naito which felt a bit long winded and trying to hard to be EPIC Takahashi/Lee felt pretty decently paced and nothing felt majorly overdone. Shibata/O'Spreay was pretty fun in itself. Wasn't as good as I thought it would be but then i had pretty high expectations for it after what i've seen from both guys.

    Elgin/Naito suffered for the same reason Okada/Omega suffered for me, it just felt too long winded and the match could have been just as good if you shaved off 15 mins and got rid of the finisher kickouts. it really didn't need to go past 20-25 mins and I don't feel both guys styles complimented eachother enough to warrant the timescale. It was a good fun match but honestly wouldn't have even reached 4 stars for me.

    Not much to say on Sapparo as the show wasn't anything special. Okada/Suzuki again felt a bit too long for what it was (so i'm new to NJPW 35-40 min main events just the norm here?) but i actually quite enjoyed it. Didn't realise it but Okada really is the Cena/Reigns of NJPW right now isn't



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    Quote Originally Posted by CGS View Post
    Just read that BIG DAVE gave Naito/Elgin *****. Hilarious. I heard he had a bit of a NJPW bias but between this and Okada/Omega i'm actually beginning to see for myself that it's true.
    It's almost as if he has a personal preference like everyone else does.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGS View Post
    It was a fun match but just like at WK11 (re Okada/Omega) it wasn't even the best match on the night for me. Takahashi/Dragon lee was by far the better match and clear MOTN. Unlike Elgin/Naito which felt a bit long winded and trying to hard to be EPIC Takahashi/Lee felt pretty decently paced and nothing felt majorly overdone. Shibata/O'Spreay was pretty fun in itself. Wasn't as good as I thought it would be but then i had pretty high expectations for it after what i've seen from both guys.
    I liked Takahashi/Dragon Lee too but parts of it were the highspot equivalent of taking full force chair shots to the head. They did some really stupid stuff that might have looked great, but was just taking things too far when they could have gotten just as big a reaction from doing less dangerous stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGS View Post
    Elgin/Naito suffered for the same reason Okada/Omega suffered for me, it just felt too long winded and the match could have been just as good if you shaved off 15 mins and got rid of the finisher kickouts. it really didn't need to go past 20-25 mins and I don't feel both guys styles complimented each other enough to warrant the timescale. It was a good fun match but honestly wouldn't have even reached 4 stars for me.
    The multiple finisher kickoouts are starting to feel like an issue, but at the same time, they must be doing something right because the crowd are still going bananas for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGS View Post
    Not much to say on Sapparo as the show wasn't anything special. Okada/Suzuki again felt a bit too long for what it was (so i'm new to NJPW 35-40 min main events just the norm here?) but i actually quite enjoyed it. Didn't realise it but Okada really is the Cena/Reigns of NJPW right now isn't
    Main events are typically in the twenty to thirty minute range, sometimes a little longer, but I get the feeling that Oakada/Suzuki went so long because of the reaction to Okada/Omega.



    BTB Newcomer of the Year 2012
    BTB of the Year 2012





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