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Thread: TEW 2016

  1. #661
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    Re: TEW 2016

    Follow up to the "FUUUUCCCKKKKKK " update above.....

    I'm up to R-y so based on both my expert understanding of the English alphabet and how many pics remain to go thru in the folders tell me that I am getting there. Slowly adding to the list of workers may / should add. But I'm wavering on a bunch. Someone like Roy Johnson who came through the Projo... He doesn't debut until 14 years into the mod, has worked maybe 100 matches at a decent level (big enough companies that Cagematch tracks them) in 4 years and while he's fun, he's not a worker that anyone is likely to miss if he's not included. He is one of a handful like that, not so much one I am explicitly mulling.


  2. #662

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Follow up to the "FUUUUCCCKKKKKK " update above.....

    I'm up to R-y so based on both my expert understanding of the English alphabet and how many pics remain to go thru in the folders tell me that I am getting there. Slowly adding to the list of workers may / should add. But I'm wavering on a bunch. Someone like Roy Johnson who came through the Projo... He doesn't debut until 14 years into the mod, has worked maybe 100 matches at a decent level (big enough companies that Cagematch tracks them) in 4 years and while he's fun, he's not a worker that anyone is likely to miss if he's not included. He is one of a handful like that, not so much one I am explicitly mulling.
    I don't think a relative unknown who is 14 years away from debuting would be missed tbh. First of all, how often is someone going to play 14 years into a mod other than someone simulating for fun? And then, if they make it 14 years into the game, how many people are going be saying "perfect, now I can finally sign Roy Johnson!"... I would say pretty much no one.

  3. #663
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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    I don't think a relative unknown who is 14 years away from debuting would be missed tbh. First of all, how often is someone going to play 14 years into a mod other than someone simulating for fun? And then, if they make it 14 years into the game, how many people are going be saying "perfect, now I can finally sign Roy Johnson!"... I would say pretty much no one.
    Roy himself, Roy's girlfriend, and his gram definitely care. Weirdly, mama and papa Johnson are less bothered.

    What you say is absolutely true. But its also true for a TON of inclusions and possible inclusions. Some mods are super-picky with who is included, especially with future workers, while others go the other direction and try to include every-fucking-one possible. Having a lot of missing future workers in the 2013 version of the mod is another small factor in why I first started - a lot of workers either debuted in the 2012-2015 range or at least made a bit step up in that period, and weren't in the 2013 of Genadi's mod, yet definitely warranted inclusion. But its a blurry line on who I should be including and who isn't worthwhile. I'm almost certain why I left out the Bravado brothers - they never did much for me and I doubt they would have been missed by many. But tag teams - especially brother tag teams - are kind my jam, so.... back in.

    Its not the kind of decision I'm gonna lose sleep over. But its one of the things I'm still considering. My life of "maybe" additions is 15-20 people long at this point.


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    Re: TEW 2016

    And finally, I am DONE......

    ...with the AGERS.



    Finished them off last night. Around 2600 total in the mod, so didn't quite hit the 3K I figured I might. I'm sure I missed a few but perfection isn't really the goal. I also tweaked a couple more works and added in a handful. Some more recent Dragon Gate grads, Katie Harvey, Mille McKenzier, and even Paul Ellering. I think it ended up being around 50-70 new workers added in total so not a small amount.

    The last thing I'm tackling is adding in the free pics I cut the other weekend. Renaming them to fit and then adding them isn't an overly time-consuming process, generally. So I will be working on that in the next evening or two. But think I'm pretty close to be doing done with this round of refreshing the mod.


  5. #665

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    Re: TEW 2016

    I'm settling in on my 1994 WCW game. It's been a few months now and my roster has mostly been transformed into what I wanted and my preferred guys are picking up steam now. I just had Halloween Havoc and so here are the results....

    Halloween Havoc 1994
    TD Garden - Boston, MA, USA
    Attendance: 19,028 (sell out)

    Pre-Show
    Kevin Sullivan and Al Snow def Brian Armstrong and Brad Armstrong

    Pre-Show
    Tatsumi Fujinami def Meng

    WCW World Television Championship
    First Blood Match

    Brian Pillman (c) def Terry Funk

    Open Challenge
    The Allied Front (Charles Wright and Harlem Heat) def Bill DeMott and The Hardy Boyz

    Johnny B. Badd def Diamond Dallas Page (with Diamond Doll and John Layfield)

    Jean-Paul Levesque (with Squire William) def Ray Traylor

    WCW World Tag Team Championship
    The Four Horsemen (Perry Saturn and Dean Malenko)(c) def Stars 'n' Stripes (The Patriot and Marcus Alexander Bagwell)

    Arn Anderson def Pegasus Kid

    If Eddie wins, The Allied Front disbands
    If Eddie loses, he joins The Allied Front

    Ron Simmons def Eddie Guerrero

    Ricky Steamboat def Lord Steven Regal (with Squire William)

    Number One Contender's Match
    Triple Threat

    Sting def Dustin Rhodes and Randy Savage

    Backstage Brawl
    Cactus Jack def Raven

    WCW World Television Championship
    Steve Austin (c) def Taz (with Harley Race)

    Ric Flair def Scott Steiner

    WCW World Heavyweight Championship
    Cage Match

    Hulk Hogan (c) (with Jimmy Hart) def Vader (with Harley Race)

    So far I have consistently won the national battle every month against WWF. I also stole Savage and Raven as you can see.

    Story wise, Hogan is of course playing a big role. He's been feuding with The Four Horsemen, Vader and his old friend, now sworn enemy, Randy Savage. Within that we also have Savage in a mini-feud with Sting, Flair and Anderson are dealing with Steiner and some other NJPW ambassadors, and Race is trying to gather talent to go with Vader so he has gotten Taz to reluctantly join him.

    Then we have Raven haunting Cactus Jack over something mysterious that happened in their past. The Allied Front (my Nation of Domination rip off) have been recruiting Guerrero but he doesn't agree with their stance of essentially being supremacists. Regal and Steamboat are in a passing of the torch style rivalry but Regal is determined by end Steamboat's career because he idolized him but believes he's washed up. Badd and Page are feuding after Page tried to hustle Badd in a poker game and Badd has been insinuating Doll has been cheating on Page. And Pillman and Funk were feuding because Funk was being an old prick and calling Pillman soft. This is going to be Funk's last match in WCW as I'm not extending his contract and I'm booking Pillman as having developed this killer instinct that leads to him brutalizing Funk in this first blood match.

  6. #666
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Looks more fun and coherent than '94 WCW actually was. Cool save. Keep the updates coming.

    The 2K1 WCW Lives mod is pretty much ready to go. I didn't have time to zip it up before work this morning, so sometime this evening, I will PM you guys the link. I usually just drop it in my Dropbox and send out a link. Hope that works. I may check a few more things like making sure there are no missing images / broken image links, etc.


  7. #667
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: TEW 2016

    So sent the mod out. If you find anything missing, wonky, in need of tweaking, etc.... Please let me know. It is very much an imperfect mod and continually a work in progress. I hope to dig into a WCW save tonight.


  8. #668
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    Re: TEW 2016

    Just some background on the mod, in case you gents missed when I randomly posted it the other week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    And for no particular reason, some notes about the mod as a whole....

    -I scaled things for balance, not for realism. I was never overly concerned with someone being "perfect" with their attributes, especially as its always going to be subjective. The most notable victims here are the WWF/E and The Rock. The WWF should have high popularity. But high popularity means they draw MASSIVE crowds. Dropping the Industry level in the US impacts a lot. So I put the company popularity a bit lower and I figure that gives the WWF room to grow. They very rarely will drop to Cult, and more typical move up from National to International. A few of the upper card and above guys in the WWF are probably a bit underrated, but The Rock absolutely is. In terms of both skills and popularity. Its necessary. He is still pretty amazing, he almost always improves, and if you don't force-retire him, he will be the WWF figurehead for a decade after Austin. With skills and popularity at "more realistic" levels, he will be an A* machine. As is, he still puts on great matches and will often be in MOTY discussions. He felt a bit game-breaking so he got a small nerf. For a lot of top WWF guys, its their popularity this is a grade or two below where it arguably could be.

    -the purpose of the mod is to run WCW. It was built around that. But any company should be playable. I've given less attention to areas I just don't know very well, but you shouldn't run into issues like no gimmicks, lack of road agents, etc. You might run into wrong alignment issues moreso. Lack of road agents and announcers in some regions is a problem. The game will generate some, but it doesn't hurt to have new worker generation on.

    -just like actually happened, a lot of top WCW names are unavailable as they were still on their Time Warner deals. I have tried to have the expiry of those deals match pretty close to reality. Buying them out, like the WWF could have done, isn't an option. WCW do have Booker T and DDP on deals at the start, since Booker T's contract actually did expire right around then and DDP took a pennies-on-the-dollar buyout so he could the WWF.... seemed reasonable he would want to help a new version of WCW as well. Some ex-ECW guys who had actually joined the WWF are still free agents (like Tajiri) while some are under contract (Credible).

    -regarding WCW.... the intent is that they are a bit of a challenge but not a MONSTER challenge. In a lot of ways, running WCW in the January 2001 New Blood mod is probably harder, because of the massive contracts, awful personalities, and bleeding money. You lack those issues here. There is enough money that you won't go bankrupt unless you go crazy with contracts. The backstage is pretty good. But the roster has been gutted. You can quite easily put on shows good enough to maintain Cult, but its a bit of work to ensure your show grades are good enough to grow toward National. The AI maintains Cult and quite often grows to National, so its not going to take great booking and management skills to accomplish it. But it does take time. Your roster is light at the top and in the middle. You have Booker T, Jeff Jarrett, and DDP... and then a gulf. Guys like Dustin Rhodes, Shane Douglas, and Rob Van Dam have the skills to headline but not yet the popularity. They need to be built up. You can absolutely load up on amazing prospects. WCW already have AJ Styles, but you can still sign up John Cena, CM Punk, Samoa Joe, Kenny Omega, Bryan Danielson, Bobby Roode, Low Ki, Austin Aries, Nigel McGuiness, Chris Hero, Claudio Castagnoli, Colt Cabana, Christopher Daniels, Roderick Strong, Kevin Steen, TJ Wilson, the Briscoe Brothers are all already active. BUT.... most are raw and need time to improve, Daniels aside. Opening up a child/developmental promotion and stocking up makes a ton of sense. You can bring some onto the roster immediately and mega-push them, but that come with possible consequences. My general approach is leaning on Booker T quite hard while looking to elevate much of the midcard and upper midcard. I'm not looking to turn someone like Shane Douglas into a major star, given his age and personality and such, but he has more value to me at B popularity than he does at D+. There are some options to elevate out of the cruiserweight division as well - Billy Kidman (already not a CW, I guess), Shane Helms, etc. There are different ways to approach it though.

    -you can "rebuild" WCW by just waiting a bit. As the Time-Warner contract expire, big names become available. Goldberg, Sting, Ric Flair, Rey Mysterio, Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, and others become available anywhere from a few months to a year into a save. The WWF will go after some of them, but usually not immediately. Beyond that, Shawn Michaels returns to health and is available. Eddie Guerrero leaves the WWF in late 2001 like he actually did. Raven will typically leave. Austin will sometimes leave. And on occasional, Triple H the WWF can leave if him and Steph break up. All of those have the talent and/or popularity to help WCW. So it just depends on what kind of WCW you want to have.

    -the ownership situation of WCW is another major reason I started toying with this mod in the first place. Originally, I had a BTB idea (didn't happen, obviously) where Shane McM bought WCW and ran them as a standalone subsidiary of the WWF, with the narrative of wanting to prove himself to Vince. Decided to switch that up and now have Mark Cuban as the owner, with the narrative that HDNet launches in late 2001 and Cuban would want content. Him and the channel have always been proponents of combat sports and wrestling. I know that there was interest by HDNet in putting Japanese wrestling on the network back around 2009/2010 (sounds weird, but Cuban told me that). So I generally look at too add a show to HDNet when it debuts.

    -Jon has helped out a ton with this and he quite enjoyed simming ahead to run ROH. Same can be done with NWA-TNA. They opened when they did in reality. You can also edit the start date. I do not have Rob Feinstein owning ROH, which probably doesn't need to be explained.

    -I've tried to have company and workers in every region. Its tougher in a real world mod because some regions just didn't have a lot, like Australia. But I tried. Lots of debuting companies. I absolutely did not try to include every possible company. Loads of companies start up, run for a year or two and then disappear. Or run really irregular shows. I am open to including companies that were missed, but you may need to provide me with a lot of info, not just what and where.

    -debuting workers. Given that this starts in June of 2001, there are LOADS of debuting workers. The vast majority debut as pretty raw. Only a few debut as ready-made superstars. If they developed into a really good worker in reality, they probably will in the game. I am always open to suggestions on adding workers, improving someone, etc. Again, no intent to have EVERYONE. If someone worked a half dozen indy shows over a 2 year period and then moved on with their lives, they probably aren't included. If someone was in the WWE developmental for a year and then left the industry, they probably aren't included.

    -I am intentionally restrictive on regional availability. That was one of the small things that led me to start tweaking in the first place. So many indy workers were widely available that you would have companies around the world with rosters full of typical American indy talent. That felt unrealistic - those workers tend to take occasional dates abroad, not work every month, let alone weekly TV tapings. Which is what would happen. wXw, AWF, FWA, and others would be full of American talent, which then stifled the development of more local workers who wouldn't get work. Workers who took work in other regions early in their career will have that availability (Kenny Omega with Japan, for example), where as someone who worked in the US only for a decade, then took a tour of Japan would probably not have Japan as an area of availability. Easily edited if you disagree, and I am open to suggestions.

    -if you want Worker Generation on, there are over 1000 new worker images in the data. I tried to avoid the easy out of using celebrity or known athlete images. A few of the cuts suck - sorry, did most myself and its not really my thing. But its better than nothing. If you decide to take a swing at running a company in a lesser-populated (in terms of available workers) area, turning Worker Generation up might be a good idea.

    -OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS. I like getting the point of view others. I am very aware of my knowledge limitations when it comes to even the US indy scene, let alone Joshi, Europe, etc. So if you see something, call it. I will often add or tweak based on suggestions. Or explain why something is the way it is.
    A couple other quick things...

    I did drop the potential set for a few veterans workers. I wanted to ensure they could still improve, which they actually did in reality beyond their level in 2001, and leaving it on Random wouldn't ensure that. But setting to Good or Very Good was having them improve too much, become too good, and become Wrestler of the Year contenders. It feels more natural if that happens due to randomness rather than do to the setting.

    Noah tends to become the powerhouse in Japan. Which is realistic, I think. Around 2005, they looked like they could overtake New Japan, who weren't really that hot. But injuries and inability to build the next generation is what killed Noah's momentum and kept it from happening. Doesn't seem to be as much of a problem in the game.

    The WWF will push "unlikely" and "unrealistic" options, some of whom will become major stars. I've mentioned this before, but its how the AI and the push-system works. And the WWF starts with a pretty damned big roster. So someone like Test or Albert can end up getting a push and / or developing into a truly world class worker. Just some of the fun of a fictional world.

    If you are going to run WCW, the product can be adjusted to whatever you feel like. I would suggest doing this in the pre-game editor or in the in-game editor, as you can only alter the product so much in-game before it impacts popularity of the company. With a new owner and a massively impacted roster, WCW could legitimately emerge as any type of product in June of 2001.


  9. #669

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Just some background on the mod, in case you gents missed when I randomly posted it the other week.



    A couple other quick things...

    I did drop the potential set for a few veterans workers. I wanted to ensure they could still improve, which they actually did in reality beyond their level in 2001, and leaving it on Random wouldn't ensure that. But setting to Good or Very Good was having them improve too much, become too good, and become Wrestler of the Year contenders. It feels more natural if that happens due to randomness rather than do to the setting.

    Noah tends to become the powerhouse in Japan. Which is realistic, I think. Around 2005, they looked like they could overtake New Japan, who weren't really that hot. But injuries and inability to build the next generation is what killed Noah's momentum and kept it from happening. Doesn't seem to be as much of a problem in the game.

    The WWF will push "unlikely" and "unrealistic" options, some of whom will become major stars. I've mentioned this before, but its how the AI and the push-system works. And the WWF starts with a pretty damned big roster. So someone like Test or Albert can end up getting a push and / or developing into a truly world class worker. Just some of the fun of a fictional world.

    If you are going to run WCW, the product can be adjusted to whatever you feel like. I would suggest doing this in the pre-game editor or in the in-game editor, as you can only alter the product so much in-game before it impacts popularity of the company. With a new owner and a massively impacted roster, WCW could legitimately emerge as any type of product in June of 2001.
    I am for sure going to start a WCW save over the weekend and let you know how it goes. I'm super excited for it. Definitely plan on building a product based heavily around traditional and realism, so I can hire good wrestlers instead of popular old men. I tend to always go that direction though, no matter what company I'm running. But I'm still thinking who I want to build around and make the next star of the company. Many intriguing options.

  10. #670
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    I am for sure going to start a WCW save over the weekend and let you know how it goes. I'm super excited for it. Definitely plan on building a product based heavily around traditional and realism, so I can hire good wrestlers instead of popular old men. I tend to always go that direction though, no matter what company I'm running. But I'm still thinking who I want to build around and make the next star of the company. Many intriguing options.
    I usually like the idea of a work-rate based WCW. It throws back to early WCW in the 1988-1992 period, where WCW offered some amazing in-ring quality. And it means you are presenting a different product to what WWF had on offer - not so much an issue in-game, but I tend to book like I was doing a BTB and I like that dynamic.

    That said.... WCW might be easier in the short-term to run as a balanced (popularity equals performance) product, or even an popularity-based product.

    Mentioned this in the mod background post I quoted, but the biggest issue with WCW is the roster balance. Its messed up. Intentionally. DDP, Booker, and Jarrett all have good to great popularity for a company of this size. But you have a big drop to the next group of guys, like Rob Van Dam, Shane Douglas, Billy Kidman, Dustin Rhodes, Lance Storm, Kanyon, etc. They don't have the popularity to headline effective, at least to start. You want to build shows around the big three, but try to build up a coupe of the others. You lack good options to feud with Booker besides Jarrett or DDP (after a turn, unless you want face vs face) until you build someone up. Two major factors to consider here - one is that building popularity is easier with an entertainment-based product. And the other is that you don't have many "work horse" types besides Booker, RVD, and Storm. Sure, you can build up a new generation of great workers but they will take time (and some are still a bit green). There is no right way to do it, but sticking with something fairly entertainment based does make the early days a bit of an easier go. You can successful build shows around a couple solid angles and a tag main event that includes some combo of Booker, DDP, and Jarrett.

    Now one of the big reasons you can take different approaches is that there is no burning requirement to hit shows at a certain high level. If WCW started at national, it would be rather difficult to consistently hit show grades that would keep the company there. It would honestly probably not be possible and would just lead to WCW falling to Cult. Instead, they start there. Sure, hitting B grades constantly, even B+ and A here and there, makes the growth back toward national faster.... but its going to take awhile regardless. So you can make do with C+ and possibly even C show grades (I would have to check as to whether C would damage popularity in the US or just hold it). This dynamic is very intentional and makes for a more fun save, at least for me. And as I've said, this one is pretty much about how I want to play lol

    I quite enjoy a work-rate based product. Something hard-hitting and athleticism-based. Loads I like about that idea. But at the same time, I find a Sports Entertainment product to be TEW "easy mode" once you have good workers with the right popularity levels.

    And as I mentioned in that quoted post, I do tend to lean on Booker T. Hard. He is figurehead and champion to start for a reason. Given he tends to do well on the mic, his popularity will increase if you protect him, as it keeps his momentum high. This can be good and bad. I've had him get close to A* popularity across the US within a few months when I've pushed him hard. Great for show grades. But it becomes impossible to get him to drop the belt until someone else is built up considerably. Or unless you do it outside of a match.

    As for "next generation".... I almost always go with Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Bryan Danielson, and CM Punk as a next generation Four Pillars of Heaven. All of them get a spell in developmental (I open up 1 or 2 companies). All but Joe start out as cruiserweights and move up gradually. Probably Punk first - he would move up by early 2002 and establish a path for others to follow later. Something specific - like winning a CW Grand Prix or holding the CW title for a set period of time allowing them to choose to move up to HW. Its a pretty puroresu type idea, but I like the structure. I always stick Chris Harris under a Patriot mask and bring him after 9/11 to become a masked patriot mainstay babyface. A traditional southern character. For guys starting on the roster besides Styles, I usually look to build up Sean O'Haire, Kidman, Kanyon, and obviously RVD. I use a B show to develop Lance Storm on the mic, as he can be a backbone workrate star for you and being able to talk helps a bit.

    I'll post more once I get a save rolling.
    Last edited by Big Papa; 10-03-2018 at 05:55 PM.


  11. #671

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    Re: TEW 2016

    I do have a question pertaining to my 1994 WCW save... I've had some matches that were described as superb and having incredible heat, where both competitors get A or A* performances but the grade ends up being a B.

    Do I need to make the match more sports entertainmenty? You know since that's my product, is that why the ratings are what they seem they should be?

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    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    I do have a question pertaining to my 1994 WCW save... I've had some matches that were described as superb and having incredible heat, where both competitors get A or A* performances but the grade ends up being a B.

    Do I need to make the match more sports entertainmenty? You know since that's my product, is that why the ratings are what they seem they should be?
    I think your answer is in the Players Handbook. Look for the module titled How Matches are Rated. It mentions that the in-ring performance rating provided first, based on purely how well the wrestler does with regard to their skill level, match type, road agent notes and then impacted by some of the possible modifiers like chemistry, momentum, gimmick. So they individually performed well. But those individual performances are then combined with popularity of the individuals and the company in the region where the show is held, and then impacted by other modifiers like announcers, refs, etc. Any of the modifiers that are having a positive or negative impact will be listed in the Dirt Sheet portion of the match result.

    Being a popularity-based company means that the the individual worker popularity is bigger in the ratio with the individual match grades.

    Unless you took a really big hit by something like Announcers, its most likely that the individual popularity and company popularity are mostly what brought it down to a B.


  13. #673

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    Re: TEW 2016

    ^ Thanks BP. I still find it weird that Hogan and Sting had a B match given both of their performances and popularity. Plus I got Tenay amd Zbyszko at the announce desk and they have great chemsitry. I mean I get by with that but weird that isn't higher.

    Anyways I have a question and I know it comes down to my preference more than anything but I'm questioning if I'm pushing too many people too early here. Specifically, The Hardy Boyz. I've already got Saturn, Malenko, Guerrero and Taz on an accelerated path to stardom, but I'm concerned it is getting unrealistic and since it's December 1994, we're still a good 3 or 4 years away from when they actually broke out. Would it be too much for The Hardy Boyz to be competing for the tag titles at Starrcade 1994?

  14. #674
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    ^ Thanks BP. I still find it weird that Hogan and Sting had a B match given both of their performances and popularity. Plus I got Tenay amd Zbyszko at the announce desk and they have great chemsitry. I mean I get by with that but weird that isn't higher.

    Anyways I have a question and I know it comes down to my preference more than anything but I'm questioning if I'm pushing too many people too early here. Specifically, The Hardy Boyz. I've already got Saturn, Malenko, Guerrero and Taz on an accelerated path to stardom, but I'm concerned it is getting unrealistic and since it's December 1994, we're still a good 3 or 4 years away from when they actually broke out. Would it be too much for The Hardy Boyz to be competing for the tag titles at Starrcade 1994?
    Well, where was the show held? What are their popularity levels there and what is the company popularity level there? Also, do you check the Dirt Sheet to see what's impacting the match? Things like motivation (if its not a PPV match), gimmick impact, even time decline... they can have an impact. None are huge but they can add up.

    As for announcers, chemistry helps, but if the skill level of the announcer & color commentator are below the grade of the match.... I often get the "could have used better announcing" comment on matches even when I have a pretty good team, simply because its a great match and the announcers aren't quite great.

    My big question would be how old the Hardy boys are? I think they are quite young. I run into the same problem in the 2K1 mod with the Briscoe brothers. Love em, love tag teams, love brother tag teams. So I want to make em stars. But they are like 16 and 18 years old. Age is just a number in the game, but it still makes me hold back for a bit. So if the Hardys are quite young, does it bother you? If yes, hold back a bit. If not... and if they have the skill level already to be built up.... then go for it.

    "A star too early" is one of my biggest issues when it comes to real world historical mods. I always want to push guys before their time. But generally, I think its fine. Its not a historical recreation - its a simulation. Honestly, its pretty unavoidable to keep from doing at least a little bit. I just try to avoid too it too much or when its completely unrealistic time-wise - like having Raven do his Raven grunge gimmick in 1989.


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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Well, where was the show held? What are their popularity levels there and what is the company popularity level there? Also, do you check the Dirt Sheet to see what's impacting the match? Things like motivation (if its not a PPV match), gimmick impact, even time decline... they can have an impact. None are huge but they can add up.

    As for announcers, chemistry helps, but if the skill level of the announcer & color commentator are below the grade of the match.... I often get the "could have used better announcing" comment on matches even when I have a pretty good team, simply because its a great match and the announcers aren't quite great.

    My big question would be how old the Hardy boys are? I think they are quite young. I run into the same problem in the 2K1 mod with the Briscoe brothers. Love em, love tag teams, love brother tag teams. So I want to make em stars. But they are like 16 and 18 years old. Age is just a number in the game, but it still makes me hold back for a bit. So if the Hardys are quite young, does it bother you? If yes, hold back a bit. If not... and if they have the skill level already to be built up.... then go for it.

    "A star too early" is one of my biggest issues when it comes to real world historical mods. I always want to push guys before their time. But generally, I think its fine. Its not a historical recreation - its a simulation. Honestly, its pretty unavoidable to keep from doing at least a little bit. I just try to avoid too it too much or when its completely unrealistic time-wise - like having Raven do his Raven grunge gimmick in 1989.
    Yeah, always check dirt sheets for every segment on my shows. Nothing stood out at the time and it was a POV main event held in America where Hogan is an A* popularity and Sting I imagine is at least B+. A rated performance for both guys. No negatives about their chemistry or the performance of the commentators, anything like that. All in all I'm not really tripping I was just wondering how I could improve it.

    As for The Hardy Boyz I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure Jeff is 17 which would make Matt 20. In real life I'm pretty sure they were making appearances as jobbers for WWF because I signed them off their roster but I'm pretty sure they were mostly still doing OMEGA. I feel for now, I'm just going to use Brian and Brad Armstrong instead.

    And funny enough I also stole Raven from WWF and gave him his grunge Raven gimmick which he had not actually adapted yet, but I'm not too premature on that.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    I actually had a whole angle planned where Raven was going to go on a major losing streak and he would evolve into his actual Raven persona in 1993, teaming with Jake Roberts to get fully developed.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Barrows View Post
    I actually had a whole angle planned where Raven was going to go on a major losing streak and he would evolve into his actual Raven persona in 1993, teaming with Jake Roberts to get fully developed.
    I decided to introduce him as someone from Cactus Jack's past. Haven't really explicitly stated it, but the implication is that Jack was responsible for someone's death, or maybe even Raven's death, years ago in New Mexico and he had hidden that, now Raven has turned up and is tormenting Jack holding the secret over his head and slowly driving him into madness.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    Yeah, always check dirt sheets for every segment on my shows. Nothing stood out at the time and it was a POV main event held in America where Hogan is an A* popularity and Sting I imagine is at least B+. A rated performance for both guys. No negatives about their chemistry or the performance of the commentators, anything like that. All in all I'm not really tripping I was just wondering how I could improve it.

    As for The Hardy Boyz I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure Jeff is 17 which would make Matt 20. In real life I'm pretty sure they were making appearances as jobbers for WWF because I signed them off their roster but I'm pretty sure they were mostly still doing OMEGA. I feel for now, I'm just going to use Brian and Brad Armstrong instead.

    And funny enough I also stole Raven from WWF and gave him his grunge Raven gimmick which he had not actually adapted yet, but I'm not too premature on that.
    With an SE product, it never hurts to have interference in the main event that rolls into a hot storyline.

    17 isn't bad. and you're right - they were doing some stuff with the WWF not too far from there.

    Raven in this period or a bit before isn't bad. I especially like it if you come up with a unique backstory for him. In terms of timing for that character, you could probably go as early as late 1991, as the release of Nevermind by Nirvana is basically what took the grunge aesthetic national, but it would be lacking some of the darker elements that Raven used. But doing in the late 80s.... that's where it gets pretty dicey and just not realistic. But honestly... its a game. there are a load of these where something would have lacked the cultural resonance due to the timing or the specific worker had to go through a sequence to develop something as a character or a worker... but unless its a BTB project, its not a huge deal. I personally try to avoid it because that timing issue can kill my interest in my own save if I realize after the fact that its not a realistic usage. Which is a bit funny because TEW real world mods is all fantasy booking.... but I'm weird in that way.


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    Summerslam Re: TEW 2016

    I made a game set right after the 2016 draft and I'm settling on it more than anything else rn. Note that I changed up the rosters a little bit to make it more exciting while allowing the cruiserweights to feature on Raw and Smackdown shows. I was gonna do an EWR game from August 2003 but everyone's morale dropped and I had to fire Triple H lol. Anyways, here's my Summerslam card with some backstory involved:


    Summerslam 2016

    Located at the Gerald J Ford Stadium with an attendance of 31,966

    TV Rating of 8.88---shown on the WWE Network

    Overall Rating: 81



    Preshow:
    The Lucha Dragons and Mustafa Ali vs The Aries Alliance (Austin Aries, Noam Dar, and Drew Gulak)

    Kalisto defeated Drew Gulak on Superstars in a first round match for the returning Cruiserweight Championship. The next week on Superstars, Gulak got some revenge when he teamed with Noam Dar to beat The Dragons. On the next Superstars, Sin Cara got a win on Noam Dar. Meanwhile, Austin Aries defeated Jack Gallagher on Raw to advance in the tournament with Neville, Kalisto, and Finn Balor also advancing. In a tag team match on Smackdown, Balor and Kalisto were able to defeat Neville and Aries. Both Aries and Kalisto would lose to Balor and Neville respectively on Raw and Smackdown. Aries would look to resurface on Superstars with a win over Sin Cara...but got caught in the middle of an attack on Cara by Gulak and Dar. Aries, being the dastardly fiend he is, would join the duo and they became known as The Aries Alliance. Later on, Mustafa Ali helped The Lucha Dragons and the match was set for Summerslam.

    Result: The Lucha Dragons and Mustafa Ali def. The Aries Alliance after Kalisto pins Noam Dar following Salida Del Sol (Grade: 55)



    Preshow: Natalya vs Naomi

    Not too much of a buildup. Given how paper-thin the womens' divisions are on each brand due to me sending a lot of them to NXT, Naomi and Natalya were the odd women out of the championship picture. On Smackdown, Natalya and Naomi would be on opposite sides of a tag match that was won by Natalya's team. The two got in a few altercations---leading to this match.

    Result: Natalya def. Naomi by submission with the Sharpshooter (Grade: 63)




    Preshow: Baron Corbin vs Heath Slater

    This feud started on Main Event when Corbin and Slater got in a scuffle. Corbin would attack Slater on Smackdown and defeat Slater on the next episode of Main Event. On Smackdown, Baron Corbin would set his sights on bigger things but was attacked by the returning RHYNO! The two faced off on Main Event where Corbin would defeat Rhyno---despite Slater assuring Rhyno that he'd be in his corner. To make up for it, Slater would cost Corbin a match on Smackdown against Shelton Benjamin. Corbin demanded another match against Slater and it was scheduled for Summerslam.

    Result: Heath Slater def. Baron Corbin by pinfall following the Gore from an interfering Rhyno (Grade: 59)




    Preshow: Paige vs Becky Lynch for the inagural Smackdown Womens' Championship

    On Smackdown, Becky would score a win over Natalya but was attacked afterwards by Paige. The next week, Paige defeated Naomi but was in turn attacked by Becky Lynch. The next week, Paige and Natalya defeated Becky Lynch and Naomi. On the go-home show, Renee Young hosted a sit-down faceoff between Paige and Becky where both vowed to win the inagural title.

    Result: Becky Lynch def. Paige by submission with the DisArmHer to win the inagural Smackdown Womens' Championship (Grade: 69)




    Match One: The New Day (c) vs Enzo Amore and Big Cass for the Raw Tag Team Championships

    This branched from two separate storylines. The first one began on Raw when Enzo Amore, being an obnoxious idiot, accidentally ran into Chris Jericho in the back. They argued and a match was made for later in the night. Right before the match, Enzo managed to also piss off Kevin Owens. This led to Owens costing Enzo his match with Jericho (Jericho would have won anyways, Owens was just being a dick). The next week, Big Cass encouraged Enzo Amore to make peace with Owens and Jericho---which Enzo reluctantly agreed to. So Enzo and Cass called them out to the ring and they had a segment with the same feel of the one that Sheamus and Santino had a few years ago. It's funny stuff. Anyways, after Enzo acts like a dick to Jericho and Owens, they try to attack Enzo but Cass helps see them off. The next week, Enzo and Cass scored an upset win over Jericho and Owens to gain a shot at the Raw Tag Team titles at Summerslam. Meanwhile, New Day came off an uneventful feud with The Primetime Players who they defeated twice with the titles on the line.

    Result: The New Day def. Enzo and Cass by pinfall after Big E hits Enzo Amore with the Big Ending to retain the Raw Tag Team Championships (Grade: 69) After the match, JeriKO came out to take out both teams and announced that they were officially entering the tag division (Grade: 86)




    Match Two:
    Rusev (c) (w/ Lana) vs Dolph Ziggler for the United States Championship

    This feud is hinted on the first Raw where they're both involved in a fatal four way to determine one of the competitors for the World Heavyweight Championship at Summerslam---but neither man won. The next week, Dolph Ziggler defeated Sheamus and Cesaro in a triple threat to become the number one contender---and was rewarded by a beatdown from Rusev. The next week, Ziggler took a loss to Seth Rollins in a great match while Rusev lost to Roman Reigns by DQ. On the go-home show, Ziggler pinned Rusev in a main event tag team match.

    Result:
    Rusev def. Dolph Ziggler by submission with the Accolade to retain the United States Championship (Grade: 70)




    Match Three:
    Finn Balor vs Neville for the vacant Cruiserweight Championship

    In the aforementioned #1 Contendership tournament, Finn Balor scored wins over Noam Dar and Austin Aries to advance while Neville defeated Cedric Alexander (turning heel on him afterwards) and Kalisto to advance.

    Result: Neville def. Finn Balor by pinfall following the Red Arrow to win the Cruiserweight Championship (Grade: 64)




    Match Four: Karl Anderson and Luke Gallows vs The Usos for the inagural Smackdown Tag Team Championships
    In another tournament, Gallows and Anderson overcame The Usos and Breezango to advance. Despite taking a loss, American Alpha offered them a second chance match that The Usos would win. On the go-home Smackdown, The Usos teamed with John Cena in a winning effort against Anderson, Gallows, and AJ Styles.

    Result: Karl Anderson and Luke Gallows def. The Usos by pinfall following the Magic Killer to win the Smackdown Tag Team Championships (Grade: 68)



    Match Five: The Miz (c) (w/ Maryse) vs Sami Zayn for the Intercontinental Championship

    Both men participated in a six-pack challenge to determine the number one contender for the WWE Championship, but neither were successful. The next week, The Miz invited Sami Zayn onto MizTV and Zayn challenged Miz for his title---but MIz refused. The next week, Miz cheated in a tag team match to pin Zayn---but GM Daniel Bryan punished this behavior with a mandatory title match with Zayn on the go-home Smackdown. Zayn would come inches away from winning the title on this show, but Miz got himself intentionally DQ'ed to keep his title secure. Despite this, Bryan scheduled Miz in ANOTHER title match with Zayn where if Miz was counted out or DQ'ed, he would lose the title.

    Result: Sami Zayn def. The Miz by pinfall following the Helluva Kick to win the Intercontinental Championship (Grade: 82)



    Match Six: Sasha Banks (c) vs Charlotte for the Raw Womens' Championship

    Just like irl, Sasha wins the title on the first Raw by beating Charlotte. The next week, Charlotte defeated Carmella in a squash (borrowed from NXT) and threw a temper tantrum afterwards. The week after, Bayley came to Raw to congratulate Sasha on her big win. Later on, she was bullied by Charlotte and challenged to a match. Charlotte was able to beat Bayley and tried to cripple her with the Figure-Eight, but Sasha ran her off. On the go-home show, Sasha and Charlotte had a tense confrontation after Charlotte defeated the returning Mickie James.

    Result: Charlotte def. Sasha Banks by pinfall after Nia Jax makes her debut and destroys Sasha Banks (Grade: 68) After the match, Charlotte and Nia attack Sasha and form an alliance.




    Match Seven: AJ Styles vs John Cena

    On the first Smackdown, Cena and Styles participated in the six-pack challenge that neither man won. The next week, they had a back-and-forth segment in the ring and agreed to face off at Summerslam. The next week, John Cena defeated Karl Anderson by DQ after Styles ran in to attack Cena and drill him with his own Attitude Adjustment. On the go-home show, Cena teamed with The Usos to defeat The Club when he pinned Karl Anderson.

    Result: AJ Styles def. John Cena by pinfall following the Styles Clash (Grade: 74....what the fuck TEW) After the match, Cena leaves his armband in the ring and thanks the fans (Grade: 88)



    Match Eight: Dean Ambrose (c) vs Bray Wyatt for the WWE Championship

    On the inagural Smackdown, Bray Wyatt won a six-pack challenge to face Ambrose at Summerslam for the WWE Championship. After the match, the two nutjobs faced off in the middle of the ring. The next week, Bray Wyatt faced Randy Orton and won by DQ when Dean Ambrose decided to attack him. After laying Wyatt out with Dirty Deeds, Wyatt brushed it off by doing his weird spider-walk to the horror of Ambrose. The next week, Wyatt teamed with The Miz in a winning effort against Ambrose and Sami Zayn. On the go-home show, Wyatt laid Ambrose out and posed with the WWE Championship.

    Result: Dean Ambrose def. Bray Wyatt with a roll-up to retain the WWE Championship (Grade: 75) After the match, an enraged Bray Wyatt hits Ambrose with a uranage through the announce table (Grade: 85)





    Match Nine: Brock Lesnar vs Randy Orton

    Despite being on different brands, Lesnar and Orton had very critical words for one another. It came to a head when Orton made an appearance on Raw and RKO'd Lesnar (like irl). Lesnar got his revenge by coming to Smackdown and attacking Orton on his home turf. To further show his rage, Lesnar interrupted a six-man tag involving Bo Dallas, Curtis Axel, The Primetime Players, and The Shining Stars and destroyed all six men. Orton was shockingly radio silent on Smackdown---but it was clear he had the mental advantage on Lesnar.

    Result:
    Randy Orton def. Brock Lesnar by pinfall following multiple RKO's (Grade: 79)





    Main Event: Seth Rollins vs Roman Reigns for the returning World Championship.

    On the inagural Raw, Seth Rollins won a fatal four way involving Rusev, Chris Jericho, and Dolph Ziggler to qualify for the World title match while Roman Reigns won a fatal four way involving Sheamus, Cesaro, and Kevin Owens. On the next Raw, both men got into a brutal fight. On the week after that, they were given pick your poison matches where Reigns put Rollins up against Dolph Ziggler---who Rollins would defeat. Rollins would put Reigns against Rusev---who Reigns defeated by DQ when Seth Rollins attacked Reigns with the help of Rusev. Because of this, the go-home show featured Roman Reigns teaming with Dolph Ziggler in a winning effort against Seth Rollins and Rusev.

    Result: Roman Reigns def. Seth Rollins by pinfall following the Spear to win the World Heavyweight Championship (Grade: 79)

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    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Holy detail, Batman. Fun save. What mod are you using?

    So 4 day weekend and I only managed to start setting up a WCW save. I did end up making a few more tweaks to the mod. If anyone wants the LATEST latest version, let me know. The changes made are very minimal. Like adding in Danny Garnell after hearing him on the Tuesday Night Jaw podcast and realizing he didn't just need an entertainment stats tweak - he needed to be added! A few other worker tweaks that I doubt anyone would ever be able to spot. Not really worth uploading the new version but I certainly can if anyone wants it.

    I'm trying to change up the storylines, pushes, and characterizations a bit from my last few saves on the mod, because they start to feel too similar otherwise. One of the things that I have started doing on some saves is renaming incoming workers. I started doing it on some CornellVerse saves, sometimes putting incoming workers under masks, and then starting to rename other workers. I find its oddly helpful in going with characterizations that go past what the workers actually have used in "real" wrestling. Some will still get to keep the names we know them by, but someone like Steve Corino could get relabelled.

    One of the toughest decisions I have to make.... I will open two developmental promotions in the US, both touring companies at the smallest possible size. There are so many great prospects to sign up but who need time to be ready to work for a big company. I have to pick which names / logos to go with for the developmental promotions. That's the tough part. Lots of fun options. Given the lineage of WCW going back to JCP, its quite tempting to open up some southern rassling promotions. Could even have some real fun and go with Southpaw Regional Wrestling lol.

    I will add a B show right away - usually use WCW Underground. It will highlight the cruiserweights quite a bit. Toying with the idea of adding a Cruiserweight specific show at some point down the road as well.


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