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Thread: TEW 2016

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Well at least you will make Dickie Eisen happy as you kill his company with his talentless offspring lol

    I don't know that the SQ scales all that differently. The Cverse has about 2000 active workers, where as this mod will have somewhere under 1000 (I think) and a whole lot of yet-to-debut workers. The Cverse also covers certain regions - the UK, Europe, and Australia - with far more depth than almost any real world mod could. There are simply more big companies in the Cverse than in reality. Not my data, but according to what I've found, the average Cverse Star Quality is 58, there are 58 workers at 90 or above, 7 at 95 or higher, and 3 of those are right at 100. I haven't done the same analysis yet for the 2001 data - I will but I need to get Access to do it properly - but I don't it will deviate that heavily from that.

    I shouldn't have called it Time Decline. But I've had to mess with The Undertaker a bunch to get it to feel accurate. I've nerfed his skills a bit below what feels accurate but still, the AI spams him and he gets monster grades. In early tests, he won multiple Wrestler of the Year awards, which isn't so accurate. I've also taken his Physical condition down a bit, but the AI still spams him until he's a wreck and retires a couple years into the game. So I set him to Semi-Active and he isn't used as much but it keeps him around for longer. It wouldn't be until about 2003 where he really moved to that kind of schedule, but this way it plays much better with the AI booking. And someone wanting to run the WWE could still use him regularly, or just switch him up in the data.

    Well, would NOTBPW be able to catch the SWF in reality? Plenty of companies have had spells of putting on much better wrestling than what the WWE was offering, but did they ever make massive progress? ROH at times, Evolve, even TNA at a few points... How was WCW able to catch the WWF in the 90s? Having greater Star Quality was a key factor there. Not saying the system is perfect by any means, just that I'm not sure its fundamentally wrong to value SQ.

    Do the AI companies go after Marat? I've run a few test games on the full data but can't recall seeing it. And honestly, I think the US scene in the Cverse is a race against time if you are TCW or the SWF.... because you are going to lose your top stars to USPW and SOTBPW. So its a race to sign and build up new stars before you lose those ones too. Letting USPW massively overpay for your stars, building new ones that are far less expensive, and building a war chest to open up a huge worldwide network of your own seems like its the path to "victory".

    Regarding DB... You're right that the Benoit comparison is only halfway usable, as Bryan has charisma on a significant level. He connected with fans in a major way. Would I build a national or international level company around him as the face of the company? Depending on what other choices I have, probably not. It pains me to say that, because I love me some DB. I know we're getting outside of TEW here but I think its a fun conversation. I see figurehead as equating to "face of company", the guy who is gonna sell my product to fans and also to advertisers. Bryan is a regular size dude who looks like an ordinary guy. It took growing a ridiculously awesome beard to have a unique look, and that isn't even that unique anymore. The charisma is undeniable, and he simply connects with people, but I don't know that translates to what you want out of a figurehead. Does a mere picture of him on a magazine cover sell the product to casual or non fans the way a picture of The Rock, Goldberg (at his peak), Austin, and Cena does?

  2. #42
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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Well at least you will make Dickie Eisen happy as you kill his company with his talentless offspring lol

    I don't know that the SQ scales all that differently. The Cverse has about 2000 active workers, where as this mod will have somewhere under 1000 (I think) and a whole lot of yet-to-debut workers. The Cverse also covers certain regions - the UK, Europe, and Australia - with far more depth than almost any real world mod could. There are simply more big companies in the Cverse than in reality. Not my data, but according to what I've found, the average Cverse Star Quality is 58, there are 58 workers at 90 or above, 7 at 95 or higher, and 3 of those are right at 100. I haven't done the same analysis yet for the 2001 data - I will but I need to get Access to do it properly - but I don't it will deviate that heavily from that.

    I shouldn't have called it Time Decline. But I've had to mess with The Undertaker a bunch to get it to feel accurate. I've nerfed his skills a bit below what feels accurate but still, the AI spams him and he gets monster grades. In early tests, he won multiple Wrestler of the Year awards, which isn't so accurate. I've also taken his Physical condition down a bit, but the AI still spams him until he's a wreck and retires a couple years into the game. So I set him to Semi-Active and he isn't used as much but it keeps him around for longer. It wouldn't be until about 2003 where he really moved to that kind of schedule, but this way it plays much better with the AI booking. And someone wanting to run the WWE could still use him regularly, or just switch him up in the data.

    Well, would NOTBPW be able to catch the SWF in reality? Plenty of companies have had spells of putting on much better wrestling than what the WWE was offering, but did they ever make massive progress? ROH at times, Evolve, even TNA at a few points... How was WCW able to catch the WWF in the 90s? Having greater Star Quality was a key factor there. Not saying the system is perfect by any means, just that I'm not sure its fundamentally wrong to value SQ.

    Do the AI companies go after Marat? I've run a few test games on the full data but can't recall seeing it. And honestly, I think the US scene in the Cverse is a race against time if you are TCW or the SWF.... because you are going to lose your top stars to USPW and SOTBPW. So its a race to sign and build up new stars before you lose those ones too. Letting USPW massively overpay for your stars, building new ones that are far less expensive, and building a war chest to open up a huge worldwide network of your own seems like its the path to "victory".

    Regarding DB... You're right that the Benoit comparison is only halfway usable, as Bryan has charisma on a significant level. He connected with fans in a major way. Would I build a national or international level company around him as the face of the company? Depending on what other choices I have, probably not. It pains me to say that, because I love me some DB. I know we're getting outside of TEW here but I think its a fun conversation. I see figurehead as equating to "face of company", the guy who is gonna sell my product to fans and also to advertisers. Bryan is a regular size dude who looks like an ordinary guy. It took growing a ridiculously awesome beard to have a unique look, and that isn't even that unique anymore. The charisma is undeniable, and he simply connects with people, but I don't know that translates to what you want out of a figurehead. Does a mere picture of him on a magazine cover sell the product to casual or non fans the way a picture of The Rock, Goldberg (at his peak), Austin, and Cena does?
    DB is puzzling. Because to attract newer fans, probably not but I think fans that are watching would be more likely to spend on merch and to want to be part of that huge crowd chanting "Yes". I think he'd surpass Goldberg to be honest, but I also think Goldberg was bound to have a short lifeline no matter what unless he ended up well rounded in the same way that Rock or Cena does. Daniel Bryan I felt, had the same sort of long term appeal that say Cena does (Rock/Austin probably did too), he had the money making catch line, he connected with the crowd the way few ever have. I think that to quantify his drawing power at the height of his popularity in the way TEW does, 900 is the minimum I'd go. He really was insanely and ridiculously over. But that goes counter to the fact that I'd give him 80 max SQ so really the way the game works, he probably could never hit what a figurehead would need to hit but IRL, I think he transcends the system the way no one has. He's probably an exception to the rule. As for selling him to adverts, I don't know, I see it as the same way you'd sell Dusty Rhodes to people, this guy is relatable, he's fun, he's amazing to watch, you want him to succeed more than you ever wanted Rock/Goldberg/Austin/Cena(lul) to succeed. I really do think Bryan at his peak sort of breaks the system.

    The difference with NOTBPW & SWF vs. WWE & any other company is that, NOTBPW have been the guys putting on insane matches at a National scale consistently for much longer than anyone WWE has had to face. ROH, TNA, EVOLVE, they've put on streaks of great shows but not with the same duration, audience size and consistency that NOTBPW has.

    I think the UK scene in CVerse being bigger than IRL scene is misleading - for sure back in 2001 but not in 2016. CVerse's UK & Europe scene has a huge 21CW but really, it has little else. And 21CW seems like they're bound to die due to mismanagement anyways. SNP is a shoddy version of ICW. EWA is mediocre and while VWA/UEW do put on good matches from time to time, even they aren't so special. Where as IRL, in Britain alone you've got PROGRESS, RevPro, ICW, Preston without mentioning some of the smaller ones. I think you could probably get 7 small-sized companies IRL vs. CVerse's 2 in the UK alone without dipping into the rest of Europe. I think any current day real world mod could present a better European/UK scene, Australia though I'll concede. Not much in Australia IRL that I know of. I would also say Canada as well, the IRL Canadian scene is woefully underdeveloped considering the talent it occasionally churns out but in CVerse its pretty good. I think Adam didn't add any(many) companies mostly because it generates new ones but I really would've loved to see more burgeoning talents, guys like Pavel Vanzycha to flesh out the CVerse UK scene.

    AI doesn't. Most users do. As for USPW, they're actually getting murdered by SWF in my game and they aren't really competing to buy out guys atm. Them and TCW dropped to Cult across my first year. Both rose back up to National at some point, USPW lost Nicky Champion to SWF and went back down, TCW lost AA and are on the verge of going back down. Might just be my own file though, for all I know the Reverie expansions will get USPW competitive too. But atm, SWF/SOTBPW are looking way too unbeatable for USPW thanks to their starting SQ.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Definitely agree that DB is a unique situation. The whole Yes movement and build toward his WM moment.... hard to replicate and recapture. I do remember a couple friends who are very casual / lapsed fans not really getting it because they weren't watching with any consistency. Hard to read too much into a tiny sample like that, but there is a dynamic there that is hard for someone on the outside to really get.

    The "pure wrestling machines" dynamic of the Stone family is hard to translate to real world as well, as there has never been something all that similar in reality. And arguably, pure match quality alone isn't enough. If it was, TCW would have made more progress on the SWF over the Cornell glory years.

    Yeah, the current UK scene is definitely something different. But its massively different back in 2001. I just checked now that I'm home and there are about 850 active workers, which is well under half what the Cverse has for starting. So yeah, 10 years in and once a lot of workers debut, the UK Scene may resemble the Cverse a bit more, but massively different at the start. Bringing in a lot of the companies and workers is the intent so the Uk scene will get better. The European scene doesn't so much, nor Canada, and the Australian scene is always gonna be poor in reality.

    With the Cverse, its going to vary quite a bit game to game. If certain key workers have their contracts come up and move, it changes the dynamic very significantly. I had one test sim where Tommy Cornell's deal came up within a year and he was in the SWF by 2017. That made a huge difference for Supreme.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Definitely agree that DB is a unique situation. The whole Yes movement and build toward his WM moment.... hard to replicate and recapture. I do remember a couple friends who are very casual / lapsed fans not really getting it because they weren't watching with any consistency. Hard to read too much into a tiny sample like that, but there is a dynamic there that is hard for someone on the outside to really get.

    The "pure wrestling machines" dynamic of the Stone family is hard to translate to real world as well, as there has never been something all that similar in reality. And arguably, pure match quality alone isn't enough. If it was, TCW would have made more progress on the SWF over the Cornell glory years.

    Yeah, the current UK scene is definitely something different. But its massively different back in 2001. I just checked now that I'm home and there are about 850 active workers, which is well under half what the Cverse has for starting. So yeah, 10 years in and once a lot of workers debut, the UK Scene may resemble the Cverse a bit more, but massively different at the start. Bringing in a lot of the companies and workers is the intent so the Uk scene will get better. The European scene doesn't so much, nor Canada, and the Australian scene is always gonna be poor in reality.

    With the Cverse, its going to vary quite a bit game to game. If certain key workers have their contracts come up and move, it changes the dynamic very significantly. I had one test sim where Tommy Cornell's deal came up within a year and he was in the SWF by 2017. That made a huge difference for Supreme.
    I'd compare that sort of reaction to Daniel Bryan to someone coming in and watching a show at a random point and seeing two people meet after not seeing each other say since the beginning of the series. It's a simple moment that to the casual viewer means little (or not nearly as much as someone dying/making out/whatever significant action). But if you've been there the whole journey, it means immensely. I don't think DB himself has anything to do with that, you're not paying attention to the story, it'll be hard to get into. From my own experience, starting NJPW last year around G1 - Shinsuke Nakamura was a much hyped about guy, with insane SQ one might say but I wasn't sold on him because I hadn't seen Nak long or consistently enough to be sold on him. Or better example, Honma's winless run took me halfway through G1 to actually appreciate it like everyone else, crowd too, was appreciating. I think casual / lapsed fans of anything is usually sort of hard to draw something from.

    I think TCW were a notch level behind NOTBPW in terms of wrestling quality and SWF had the star quality to surpass TCW's match level. TCW always comes and came across to me like a good wrestling company, but the wrestling isn't good enough to have carried it past SWF. NOTBPW is a great/see amazing wrestling company even surpassing most of Japan except on PGHW's good days, so SQ should be less of factor. I think SOTBPW is a better competition SQ wise for NOTBPW's wrestling godliness. But you're right, that hasn't been a thing IRL. Could a Hart-centric company with guys like Benoit, Jericho, Edge, Christian, etc. coming through have worked? I don't know (though I may try once a '91 mod emerges). I think the oddest thing is that NOTBPW has been the Canadian juggernaut/wall for so long but under the national battle system, you have to expect that in TEW 2019, there's no way NOTBPW stay at National unless they get a sudden surge of SQ. SWF/USPW/TCW/SOTBPW, any of them penetrating the Canadian market completely outdo NOTBPW in terms of SQ as soon as they can muster a national battle. CGC - should they replace Alex DeColt and not perish, would have the SQ to beat NOTBPW pretty easily having 3 guys over 90 SQ, 1 at 88 SQ and another at 80 SQ. Where as NOTBPW only guy past 90SQ is Steve DeColt, ironically enough. So CGC can keep churning 70~ rated shows to NOTBPW's expected 90+ rated shows but the SQ of horrific wrestlers like Gargantuan and Prometheus (whom I love) will pretty much kill NOTBPW (or send to cult) without batting an eyelash.

    What I'm essentially saying is - totally understand the value of SQ. There has to however be a balance between SQXPOP and Show vs. Show. I don't think its healthy for TEW to now become about who can make the guy with high SQ popular faster. There still has to be an element of who can put on better shows. WCW had a fuck ton of SQ - I don't think their draw power significantly reduced in NWO's time though WWF's rise of Rock/Austin certainly sky highd theres, WCW still had Hogan, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Booker T, Bret and just so many more huge draws, but their shows were just so horrible, that draw power could not carry them. If you had combined WWF/WCW's roster, aside from Austin/Rock at the time, you'd then have a list of 10 WCW guys with higher drawing power than the rest of WWF. Rock/Austin could not have carried WWF over WCW with draw power alone in TEW.

    I really haven't seen a long term file where 21CW genuinely succeed, I strongly feel like they're on the road to death bed. Rather it's in 2 or 4 years. Even if Tommy Cornell sticks with them. He'll end up leaving them when they pass and heading to SWF afterwards.

    I started a file with EMLL, had them join the COTT because I really wanted to use the new features. It's a real interesting promotion. No tag matches as is custom with Lucha Libre, all 1 v 1 (will change that to all One-A-Side for match variety) and it has a heavy video game beat 'em up aura to them. Inevitably I called all of the events after fighting games. There's also such depth in the Mexican scene with Mitico Jr., Grape Soda, Monteros, Mr. Lucha, etc. My shows are essentially 4 title matches (3 company ones and the COTT one) and then a few other interesting singles matches. I'm envisioning the show having a really unique production sequence heavily inspired by games. Each guy with match opening taunts & maybe catch lines. A tale of the tape for sure before each match. The gimmicks and unique looks are hugely important (something Monteros only succeed in because everyone looks so different already, but after them, I can't afford regular looking fellows). Finishing moves would be vital. Two out of three falls makes even more sense (best two out of three in most fighting games). Maybe wrestlers would even have tiers of finishing moves. Adding another layer to the way matches are fought, combo set ups would become a thing (long string of a guy doing fast strikes/grapples to really up the heat of the match). I'm stopping shy of envisioning destructible environment lying around the ring Mexican scene is interesting because I find SOTBPW to be (baring scandals) the biggest juggernaut to overcome.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    That's a solid analogy and part of what I have a concern with. The Yes Movement was a unique and amazing thing. It wasn't a particularly complicated thing by any means but you did have to "get it" for it to make sense and resound. And if the question is whether DB would make a good "face of the company" for a real company, he would but he would be imperfect. Not my first choice, dependent on how the other options are. And its because the Yes movement and his peak in popularity are pretty inseparable to me. I'm not doubting his sheer popularity but whether the other elements carry across well enough for the role - the every guy look, the goofy charisma, the determination and underdog nature.... Because being a legitimate figurehead isn't just about selling T shirts and being on the PPV posters. Its about selling the company. Its being on magazine covers and Good Morning America, Sports Center and a ton of other promotional duties. Is he someone corporate partners and sponsors will connect with? I know DB can do those things... but so can some others.

    I did some looking on some test sims last night and some guys definitely had SQ jumps. In 2005, Jericho is at A* SQ and I can't see anything that jumped it up (movies and such). So getting hired by a Cult company and put on TV could jump DB up a few grades, to the point he might be more effective as a figurehead and more helpful in the National Battle.

    Regarding National Battles, I don't see WCW constantly dropping down to Cult in test sims. They take a while to hit National and they do sometimes drop, but its not a constant thing. At least that I've spotted. I think a threeway National Battle is the big one. Its not just Star Quality but SQ and popularity. So with an example like SOTBPW or USPW coming into Canada.... they might have much better SQ but probably don't have competitive levels of individual worker popularity in Canada. I think it actually emulates the MNW pretty effectively - WCW was able to take the lead on sheer star power, but the WWF recovered through sheer worker popularity and once WCW started to kill the popularity of the top guys, the better SQ mattered much less. And show quality does still matter, just not quite so directly. If you are booking strong shows, that is building company popularity and worker popularity (which is part of the National Battle). If you are booking poor shows, you hurting company pop and worker pop... which directly affects the Battle.

    I'll have to look at some of my Cverse test sims. I actually found NOTBPW tended to die off more often than 21CW, but that was where they couldn't replace the top workers quick enough.

    Interesting. I've honestly never done much in Mexico in any mod. I enjoy the bit of lucha I've watched but I've never really gotten into it hugely. EMLL sounds interesting.

    Four day weekend coming up. Should make plenty of progress on the 2001 mod but I may also try to dig into a Cverse game, at least for a few months of play-time.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    That's a solid analogy and part of what I have a concern with. The Yes Movement was a unique and amazing thing. It wasn't a particularly complicated thing by any means but you did have to "get it" for it to make sense and resound. And if the question is whether DB would make a good "face of the company" for a real company, he would but he would be imperfect. Not my first choice, dependent on how the other options are. And its because the Yes movement and his peak in popularity are pretty inseparable to me. I'm not doubting his sheer popularity but whether the other elements carry across well enough for the role - the every guy look, the goofy charisma, the determination and underdog nature.... Because being a legitimate figurehead isn't just about selling T shirts and being on the PPV posters. Its about selling the company. Its being on magazine covers and Good Morning America, Sports Center and a ton of other promotional duties. Is he someone corporate partners and sponsors will connect with? I know DB can do those things... but so can some others.

    I did some looking on some test sims last night and some guys definitely had SQ jumps. In 2005, Jericho is at A* SQ and I can't see anything that jumped it up (movies and such). So getting hired by a Cult company and put on TV could jump DB up a few grades, to the point he might be more effective as a figurehead and more helpful in the National Battle.

    Regarding National Battles, I don't see WCW constantly dropping down to Cult in test sims. They take a while to hit National and they do sometimes drop, but its not a constant thing. At least that I've spotted. I think a threeway National Battle is the big one. Its not just Star Quality but SQ and popularity. So with an example like SOTBPW or USPW coming into Canada.... they might have much better SQ but probably don't have competitive levels of individual worker popularity in Canada. I think it actually emulates the MNW pretty effectively - WCW was able to take the lead on sheer star power, but the WWF recovered through sheer worker popularity and once WCW started to kill the popularity of the top guys, the better SQ mattered much less. And show quality does still matter, just not quite so directly. If you are booking strong shows, that is building company popularity and worker popularity (which is part of the National Battle). If you are booking poor shows, you hurting company pop and worker pop... which directly affects the Battle.

    I'll have to look at some of my Cverse test sims. I actually found NOTBPW tended to die off more often than 21CW, but that was where they couldn't replace the top workers quick enough.

    Interesting. I've honestly never done much in Mexico in any mod. I enjoy the bit of lucha I've watched but I've never really gotten into it hugely. EMLL sounds interesting.

    Four day weekend coming up. Should make plenty of progress on the 2001 mod but I may also try to dig into a Cverse game, at least for a few months of play-time.
    Honestly, I might say that 'every guy' appeal might still come across well on those sort of stuff. But honestly, I wouldn't know. I think you're right though. He could be a figurehead, may be not the perfect one. And his impact would definitely fluctuate depending on how into him the crowd is and the story is at any given time. On that note, I think Roman Reigns would end up even worse of a figurehead statistically. Doesn't have the charisma for the talk shows but can probably handle magazine covers at best. Doesn't sell anything either. I think this is the one where you'd get "Not Over Enough, Not Charismatic Enough, Babyface Performance Not Good Enough and Insert X Is More Charismatic" etc. where perhaps SQ is the only thing that would carry him forth until you can build him up as being over. Don't think his charisma or babyface will ever be good enough though. Not unless they learn how to give him the SCSA/Goldberg bad ass appeal.

    That's very interesting. I was under the impression SQ didn't jump up that fast but that makes me feel better when I've got guys like Funakoshi who have the stats, the bio and the render to be the figurehead of the company but then they've got C+ SQ and you can't pull the trigger.

    I don't know if Hall/Nash/Hogan's pop genuinely went down vs. their momentum simply dipped as the result of the bad booking. WCW must have seriously fucked with their pop to have lost in game mechanics because the B~ SQ of the WWF guys sans SCSA/Rock wouldn't see them past 4K which seems to be what I'd imagine a competitive American national battle would be at (or at the very least is in CVerse, itll also be interesting to see how this scales in other mods, is 4K what you need to be hitting, or is it 3.5K, 3.7K-ish regions). How is WCW & WWF's national battle draw power to start with - even though WCW is still cult and has time to build it up?

    Be happy you don't have to figure out CMLL's current day complicated schedule. It's hell keeping track of it. Haven't gotten deep into it. EMLL is literally one show away from getting Regional and then you can up all your production values (they have the money for it) high enough to get a TV deal. You can thereafter compete with OLLIE (no you can't, OLLIE's got you beat in pop for quite a while before you can be competitive) or avoid the fight by joining COTT which I did unknowingly. Compared to BCG, it's an insanely easier fight. You have no external issue, and unless you have Owner Goals (which I do), you have no internal issues either and you can focus on putting on good shows. The 1 v 1 setting is definitely different though once you start having a weekly show, I imagine a stable would be vital to story building without burning matches up or having too much interference to build storylines in a 80% company.

    Also wanted to try out CGC since as much as I love them, I've never really gotten a good game out of them. Plus they're a smaller sports entertainment company so it might be easier to get a handle on. Gargantuan, Prometheus, Dunn, and Ricky (who I resigned for exhuberant sums) can really carry you over NOTBPW if you can hit the right main event pop and give USPW/SWF a fight on two fronts if you can hit National. Jack DeColt is the 5th man but for how long? Getting Steve DeColt back would be great too. I've got Intrepid Ian Identity as the UC but I will rename him to Ian DeColt in a over-the-top cloning storyline I'm sure. I love Self's vision of CGC so that's probably what I'll go with. Very gimmicky storylines and characters while still maintaining the mainstream appeal.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Funny thing about Roman Reigns... I've heard a few times that he's actually a very good public speaker. Haven't seen enough to confirm, but apparently he's engaging and well spoken. He doesn't come across that way that much on TV but that might be because he's being forced to read a script rather than just talk. As for DB, he would certainly do some of it very well. Just not sure he would do it better than any other option.

    The Jericho SQ thing was a bit of a surprise. I had simmed up to 2005 and wasn't paying that much attention as it went because I wanted to see how certain added companies did. He starts around a B so it was a pretty notable jump. In 2013, you could often see 2-4 points with a younger work joining a bigger company. I've noticed jumps of a grade or two but this Jericho one might be an outlier rather than the norm. So I wouldn't normally expect someone who starts at C+ to end up at A without an event being behind it (filming a movie, usually). I hope to have some time to do some testing tonight and I will pay closer attention.

    I got Excel last night, as the free program I had didn't make searching easy at all. Looks like a few skills are scaled a bit low in comparison to the Cverse but not way off. I'll do more of that once I have more stuff done.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Hit submit by accident halfway through. Oops.

    I do think WCW neutered the individual popularity of their top guys by '98 and '99. Especially by 2000. Sure, a few had their Star Quality drop - Hall most notably - but guys were definitely not at the same level as in '96. I find popularity can be a hard thing to wrap your brain around at times, especially when trying to compare and set levels. Its so subjective. So one approach I've taken is the idea of you taking that worker and running a non-branded show. Non a WCW show but a one-off event somewhere in the SS. The worker in question is the only star name, the name that goes on the marquee, the only wrestler fans would know. Since there is no promotion per se, its their name that is going to sell the show entirely. In '96, I think you could have taken Nash or Hall or Flair and had them sell out a decent sized arena all on their own. but by 2000, none of them could have.

    Its funny how different companies in the Cverse have such varied situations. That's one of the things that makes it so cool and why real world mods often can't compare in that sense. The sheer diversity is impressive. Tverse matches it in that sense.

    CGC is an old favorite but yeah, its been a long time. I love Self's take on it. I don't think I would go quite as gimmicky - less of the glittery vampire characters, but a magic potion? Sign me up. I've said it before - it reminds me of growing up on Stampede Wrestling. I would have fun with a diary for CGC because of all the regional references I could throw in there, but almost no one reading it would get it lol.

    So question... starting to look at companies and workers to import into the 2001 mod. Loads that I want to do. For workers, if they are an "indy star" they will likely be in there. The bigger names on the current UK scene will be in there. Almost anyone who has done NXT (and had any sort of a career afterward) or major indies will be in there. But any obscure requests? Either workers or companies.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    I'd watched a couple of Roman Reigns ones and was speaking more on that. He's well spoken - as in he's obviously been prepped but he doesn't stand out in the way John Cena does on a talk show where he's charismatic enough to have really fun back and forths.

    So long as Triton, Titan, Volador Jr. and Dragon Lee are in there. I don't think I've got any hugely obscure request but I'll throw more names out there just in case. Big Damo. Mike Bailey. Kairi Hojo. Mayu Iwatani. Io Shirai. Mio Shirai. Daisuke Sekimoto. Pentagon Jr. Dave Mastiff. King Cuerno. Fenix. Bull Dempsey <3 Catrina. Alexa Bliss. Yuji Okabayashi. David Finlay. Jay White. Kamaitachi. Tama Tonga.

    None of those people are really obscure though tbh.

    You've got me really excited to try the mod when its ready :3

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Few can be as good as Cena and The Rock in that regard. Cena comes across so well and so likeable in most of those I've ever seen with him. But he has been doing it since like 2005, so lots of experience by this point lol

    Yeah, none of those will be an issue. A few of them are already in. Imported Sekimoto and Okabayashi when I set up Big Japan the other day. Pretty much all of those can be imported from a more current mod and just adjusted. The hard part, assuming that the mod had their skills spot on in the first place, is scaling them back to rookie level. I want to avoid having massively overpowered rookies (the KC Glenn types) for most workers. There may be exceptions. But most workers who became really good will be average with good potential, which should see them develop properly but not the same in every game.

    I'm so bloody eager to just play lol. But I know that I want it properly set up. Given that it was based on Genadi's mod, it was playable from day. A touch overpowered, I found, but not way out of whack. I can give you a copy at any point you want it. But the polish is gonna take some time.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Few can be as good as Cena and The Rock in that regard. Cena comes across so well and so likeable in most of those I've ever seen with him. But he has been doing it since like 2005, so lots of experience by this point lol

    Yeah, none of those will be an issue. A few of them are already in. Imported Sekimoto and Okabayashi when I set up Big Japan the other day. Pretty much all of those can be imported from a more current mod and just adjusted. The hard part, assuming that the mod had their skills spot on in the first place, is scaling them back to rookie level. I want to avoid having massively overpowered rookies (the KC Glenn types) for most workers. There may be exceptions. But most workers who became really good will be average with good potential, which should see them develop properly but not the same in every game.

    I'm so bloody eager to just play lol. But I know that I want it properly set up. Given that it was based on Genadi's mod, it was playable from day. A touch overpowered, I found, but not way out of whack. I can give you a copy at any point you want it. But the polish is gonna take some time.
    I'd love to try it anytime you're willing to dish out a copy~ if that's now then all the better!

    My hatred for KC Glenn knows no bounds. I was so happy he went to BHOTWG, and he gets so few appearances thanks to their 1 show a week and western schedule that he's pretty much been entirely neutered unless you can find a way to sign him, it's great!

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    Re: TEW 2016

    I was just hesitant to share it until pics were down. Still gotta do belt images, but those are gonna be a gross-ass mix anyway. I'll see what I get done this weekend for importing and tweaking, then toss you the data next week. More for testing than actual play, but like I mentioned, its been playable data all along.

    I've never done a lot with KC Glenn. When I would sign him on TEW 2013, he typically ended up jobbing for the first while and I didn't get far enough in those games for him to make a real impact. The CVerse has always had those kind of mega-prospects. Used to be Hell Monkey, then Davis Wayne Newton and the Gauge/Keith boys....

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Okay, so ran some tests last night. I was wrong about Chris Jericho. His Star Quality started at A (too high) and so the jump to A* wasn't that huge. He did still jump, though. Edge went from a B to A* due to going from Toned Middleweight to Muscular Light Heavyweight. A few others went up a grade or two, including Harry Smith who went up 2 or 3 grades. He's quite young so I think that plays a factor. It makes sense - its common for a wrestler to "look" better at 25 than at 19.

    Spent some time last night tweaking a few guys. Using the community mod as it seems to be scaled pretty much how I want things scaled. I think it might end up over-powering a few guys, so I may need to nerf Rocky and a few others again. The top three workers in the data are Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, and Shawn Michaels (even though he's out injured). After the tweak, HBK is the clear #1. Jericho and Eddie are just behind that but I don't think they are close enough to have different guys at #1 in different games you start, like it was before. This is probably more accurate, though. I tweaked Austin and Kobashi, which should see them move up a smidge too - not that they were all that low.

    Should have some time tonight and will probably focus more on importing than tweaking.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Okay, so ran some tests last night. I was wrong about Chris Jericho. His Star Quality started at A (too high) and so the jump to A* wasn't that huge. He did still jump, though. Edge went from a B to A* due to going from Toned Middleweight to Muscular Light Heavyweight. A few others went up a grade or two, including Harry Smith who went up 2 or 3 grades. He's quite young so I think that plays a factor. It makes sense - its common for a wrestler to "look" better at 25 than at 19.

    Spent some time last night tweaking a few guys. Using the community mod as it seems to be scaled pretty much how I want things scaled. I think it might end up over-powering a few guys, so I may need to nerf Rocky and a few others again. The top three workers in the data are Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, and Shawn Michaels (even though he's out injured). After the tweak, HBK is the clear #1. Jericho and Eddie are just behind that but I don't think they are close enough to have different guys at #1 in different games you start, like it was before. This is probably more accurate, though. I tweaked Austin and Kobashi, which should see them move up a smidge too - not that they were all that low.

    Should have some time tonight and will probably focus more on importing than tweaking.
    Hollywood Chris Jericho

    As if I didn't need more incentive to push Eddie Guerrero. I think Eddie will be a double edged sword depending on his demons but unlike a CVerse character where I'd job then release, I think my love and loyalty for Eddie G. will prevent me from giving up on him. At least you won't have to worry about that in WCW.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    I've tweaked the bad habits down for almost everyone that I spotted them for. Not gone, but not as overwhelming bad as they were in the original data. The game gives random bad habits to some level too, so there will be that. I think Eddie's habits are mostly set to reformed, so less of an issue. With him and Benoit, I've debated having narratives to tank their physical condition and cause them to retire when they actually died. Part of me says no, its a fantasy mod so let it be, but the other half feels its right - especially with the horrible Benoit situation.

    I tweaked a bunch of talent from Mexico based on some info from Zero, but I still feel like that region is lacking behind America and Japan in terms of top level talent. El Hijo del Santo, Dr Wagener, and Rey Mysterio Jr are the top ones. And might be the only ones in the top 30. I'll probably bump up the likes of Blue Panther, Negro Casas, Atlantis, Ultimo Guerrero... just don't know just how much of a bump, as I don't want to overpower them. Not sure how strong your lucha knowledge is for that period, Jon, but I would love some feedback on that area when I flip you the data.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    So tweaked a bit last night and started the process of adding yet-to-debut workers. Ran a test sim as well. I tweaked Benoit and figured that might move him up the top workers list - he was about 12 or 15 on the list at the start of a new game - but he's about the same spot. Gah. I didn't dig deep after simming forward, but it looks like the WWF is a powerhouse but inconsistent - shows ranged from B- to B+, with enough strong matches but not every single show having an A headliner. Japan is still solid (Kobashi moved up the list a bit after a tweak). I was pleasantly surprised that Mexico is doing fine, despite not having that many top rated workers. CMLL is putting on regular B and B+ main events, so regularly B shows. AAA is a step behind, with mostly B- or below main events. From what I know, AAA had a much weaker roster, at least in terms of actual in-ring ability, so that seems about right.

    Read something from Derek that made sense - using the Cverse as a reference for everything in a real world mod is dangerous. The physical condition of a lot of workers isn't updated that much and probably intentionally - beloved veteran workers would retire in droves if Adam nerfed everyone's physical condition. But that's a key reason that so many guys keep working at a high level until their late 40s. In the real world, guys who keep working thru their late 40s or even into their 50s are usually pretty wrecked. The guys who do in Japan are typically protected in tag matches, not put into high level singles matches all the time. So one of the tweaks I need to do will be taking a look at physical conditions across the board for guys into their mid 30s or later.

    Have a four day weekend, 2 day workweek, and then another 3 day weekend. With very little planned. So hoping to spend some time actually playing TEW. Not this mod just yet, but either the Cverse or maybe one of the historical mods that have been released as a beta.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    I've tweaked the bad habits down for almost everyone that I spotted them for. Not gone, but not as overwhelming bad as they were in the original data. The game gives random bad habits to some level too, so there will be that. I think Eddie's habits are mostly set to reformed, so less of an issue. With him and Benoit, I've debated having narratives to tank their physical condition and cause them to retire when they actually died. Part of me says no, its a fantasy mod so let it be, but the other half feels its right - especially with the horrible Benoit situation.

    I tweaked a bunch of talent from Mexico based on some info from Zero, but I still feel like that region is lacking behind America and Japan in terms of top level talent. El Hijo del Santo, Dr Wagener, and Rey Mysterio Jr are the top ones. And might be the only ones in the top 30. I'll probably bump up the likes of Blue Panther, Negro Casas, Atlantis, Ultimo Guerrero... just don't know just how much of a bump, as I don't want to overpower them. Not sure how strong your lucha knowledge is for that period, Jon, but I would love some feedback on that area when I flip you the data.
    I'll totally try them but I'm also a complete noob to CMLL. I can identify like a 1/5 of the current CMLL roster so you don't even want to question my classic CMLL knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    So tweaked a bit last night and started the process of adding yet-to-debut workers. Ran a test sim as well. I tweaked Benoit and figured that might move him up the top workers list - he was about 12 or 15 on the list at the start of a new game - but he's about the same spot. Gah. I didn't dig deep after simming forward, but it looks like the WWF is a powerhouse but inconsistent - shows ranged from B- to B+, with enough strong matches but not every single show having an A headliner. Japan is still solid (Kobashi moved up the list a bit after a tweak). I was pleasantly surprised that Mexico is doing fine, despite not having that many top rated workers. CMLL is putting on regular B and B+ main events, so regularly B shows. AAA is a step behind, with mostly B- or below main events. From what I know, AAA had a much weaker roster, at least in terms of actual in-ring ability, so that seems about right.

    Read something from Derek that made sense - using the Cverse as a reference for everything in a real world mod is dangerous. The physical condition of a lot of workers isn't updated that much and probably intentionally - beloved veteran workers would retire in droves if Adam nerfed everyone's physical condition. But that's a key reason that so many guys keep working at a high level until their late 40s. In the real world, guys who keep working thru their late 40s or even into their 50s are usually pretty wrecked. The guys who do in Japan are typically protected in tag matches, not put into high level singles matches all the time. So one of the tweaks I need to do will be taking a look at physical conditions across the board for guys into their mid 30s or later.

    Have a four day weekend, 2 day workweek, and then another 3 day weekend. With very little planned. So hoping to spend some time actually playing TEW. Not this mod just yet, but either the Cverse or maybe one of the historical mods that have been released as a beta.
    I'd be interested in knowing what might happen in the game 5/10 years later in terms of National Battle since US usually has to contend with crossing over to Mexico/Canada for their big promotions so WWF could very much see itself fighting CMLL if CMLL grows to a national stage or is already at a national stage and with those ratings it seems like they might.

    I think in Mexico/Japan you're more likely to have guys working into their late age vs. America where perhaps Vince's methods have really wrecked the bodies of their guys (what with steroids and what not) but in Japan/Mexico you see guys like Negro Casas, Atlantis, Ultimo Guerrero, Blue Panther, guys you just mentioned, still doing great or the Nagata's and that ilk still doing well in Japan when the product is probably a lot more intensive than America mainly because of their... behind the door practices of America. Though I'm not sure if Japan/Mexico all did the same or not, I'm leaning on not. I think it would be interesting to see the retirement age of top guys in Mexico/Japan vs. the US because I have a hunch there would be a considerable difference.

    I look forward to hearing about whatever company you choose to take. Haven't had much chance to play myself lately.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    My test last night makes me feel a bit better about Mexico. It seems to run okay. By all means, if you spot anyone out of whack of with regard to skills or overness, please let me know. 100%. I'll tackle some this weekend and send it your way on about Monday. Unless you think you might have time to dig in this weekend.

    I've actually creating a spreadsheet so I can use the MDB export feature to get the stat breakdowns for Cverse and the mod, then compare them. Not wanting them to be bam on exact, but would be nice to have a similar skill distribution balance.

    One thing that seems to happen is that the regions are fairly isolated. Mexico and Japanese companies don't make a big push for US popularity, and US companies don't seem to push for those regions either. IT might be down to broadcasters, but the broadcasters aren't dissimilar from the CVerse (I used that as a base). Much like the Cverse, its not easy for a company in one region to grab deals in other regions. I'll probably do a couple more sims this weekend and take look at what kind of expansion the promotions manage.

    Figuring out retirement dates would be a horrible pain. So many workers who sorta of retire, but not really (the Funkin Syndrome). Or who just kinda leave the business, then show up 8 years later for a few indy dates. You had ton of guys who worked in WCW thru the 90s and when it closed, they didn't really work anymore but its hard to know whether that was by choice or they just couldn't find bookings (a lot who fit this type, I just removed from the data). Guys who run a reduced schedule so would be semi-active in the game.... the AI won't necessarily use them as such, depending on the roster as a whole. I think workers in Mexico tend to go long because the lucha style is relatively light.... but injuries still happen. Plus as workers age, some can adapt their style so they aren't taking as much physical damage and some never do. I'm not going to try to have it emulate reality too closely. I just want it to be in the middle. Not like the Cverse where every single top star workers til they are 50 (and at a high level) but also not where everyone retires as soon as they hit 38.

    I'm kinda leaning toward Burning Hammer, so you may not enjoy the updates hugely. But I'll toy around and see. I do still wanna do TCW as well. SWF at some point. But yeah, might just be what idea grabs me at the right time.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    My test last night makes me feel a bit better about Mexico. It seems to run okay. By all means, if you spot anyone out of whack of with regard to skills or overness, please let me know. 100%. I'll tackle some this weekend and send it your way on about Monday. Unless you think you might have time to dig in this weekend.

    I've actually creating a spreadsheet so I can use the MDB export feature to get the stat breakdowns for Cverse and the mod, then compare them. Not wanting them to be bam on exact, but would be nice to have a similar skill distribution balance.

    One thing that seems to happen is that the regions are fairly isolated. Mexico and Japanese companies don't make a big push for US popularity, and US companies don't seem to push for those regions either. IT might be down to broadcasters, but the broadcasters aren't dissimilar from the CVerse (I used that as a base). Much like the Cverse, its not easy for a company in one region to grab deals in other regions. I'll probably do a couple more sims this weekend and take look at what kind of expansion the promotions manage.

    Figuring out retirement dates would be a horrible pain. So many workers who sorta of retire, but not really (the Funkin Syndrome). Or who just kinda leave the business, then show up 8 years later for a few indy dates. You had ton of guys who worked in WCW thru the 90s and when it closed, they didn't really work anymore but its hard to know whether that was by choice or they just couldn't find bookings (a lot who fit this type, I just removed from the data). Guys who run a reduced schedule so would be semi-active in the game.... the AI won't necessarily use them as such, depending on the roster as a whole. I think workers in Mexico tend to go long because the lucha style is relatively light.... but injuries still happen. Plus as workers age, some can adapt their style so they aren't taking as much physical damage and some never do. I'm not going to try to have it emulate reality too closely. I just want it to be in the middle. Not like the Cverse where every single top star workers til they are 50 (and at a high level) but also not where everyone retires as soon as they hit 38.

    I'm kinda leaning toward Burning Hammer, so you may not enjoy the updates hugely. But I'll toy around and see. I do still wanna do TCW as well. SWF at some point. But yeah, might just be what idea grabs me at the right time.
    I can try to dig into it this weekend. My family is off to toronto for the long weekend so I'm home alone.

    Are the WWF already national in Canada or still building up? I'd assume before American companies go for Mexico they tend to go for Canada. And Mexican companies take a while to even start making a dent in the U.S. SOTBPW usually for me are slower to expand in US than America is. It could also be a case of the owners of CMLL/AAA not being aggressive enough as owners? As for Japan, they're so distanced it feels like they take a lot longer no matter what game. You're also not sure which market to break through in first. Sure US is easy, but Mexico is smaller and UK/Euro is closer so I feel like those would be the places I'd try to target first.

    I feel like though lucha style doesn't seem as stiff, they (or CMLL specifically) have a pretty heavy schedule still. Like just looking at this past month, CMLL has already had about 18 official events. I think the fact that you will have probably a deep future workers database (and one you can more or less update infinitely if you want), then having workers retire at 50s isn't really necessary.

    I'm still into BHOTWG. I've never really tried TCW and I'm only familiar with SWF because they're usually the popular choice. Though... PGHW > BHOTWG. The AI BHOTWG rolls with a one show a week, one PPV a month schedule, what sort of schedule would you do with the western appeal but such a huge roster?

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Okay, cool. I'll zip and upload it to Dropbox then PM you the link. Poke around and play as you like. Any suggestions appreciated. If you wanna keep notes and send em my way :-)

    The WWF is at 75 across Canada, which is Cult. Might be due to regional importance. I've scaled the WWF for gameplay more than reality. Same with quite a few workers. I never like seeing someone at the exact same importance across the entire world - that's not really realistic IMO. I figured I'd also give the WWF some room to grow. And if they are too big and the talent too popular, they are just an unstoppable juggernaut. which isn't really realistic. WM17 was a high point for the WWF, but it kinda dropped after that, especially through the whole invasion angle. Ratings were dropping already back in 2000. The 2002 to 2004 era was great for wrestling but business dropped for the WWF. So if the company starts in TEW at something similar to that high point, they don't drop back at all.

    Tweaking broadcasters so they are a bit more open long-term is something I may look at yet.

    Yeah, lucha is a full schedule. Like puro, its a load of tag matches will helps some too. In TEW terms, a puro product is a lot more intense which means a lot more wear and injuries.

    I'm not actually sure about the Burning Hammer schedule. Haven't thought that far into a possible game, TBH. I do miss the touring schedule for them but don't know if I'll switch it back.

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