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Thread: NJPW Destruction 2015

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    NJPW NJPW Destruction 2015



    Hot off the heels of the 25th G1 Climax, New Japan Pro Wrestling returns in September with 2 pay-per-views which are really just one pay-per-view split in half and filled with tag matches.

    Okayama 23/9

    NEVER Title : Togi Makabe v Kota Ibushi
    Jr.Heavy : Kenny Omega v KUSHIDA
    Toru Yano & Kazuchika Okada v AJ Styles & Yujiro Takahashi
    Alex Shelley, Ryusuke Taguchi, Captain New Japan, Tomoaki Honma & Hirooki Goto v RPG Vice (Berretta & Rocky Romero), YOSHI-HASHI, Tomohiro Ishii & Shinsuke Nakamura
    Juice Robinson (NXT's CJ Parker), Matt Sydal & Hiroshi Tanahashi v Cody Hall, Tama Tonga & Bad Luck Fale
    Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan v Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows
    NWA Jr.Heavy : Steve Anthony v Tiger Mask
    Mascara Dorada & Jushin Thunder Liger v reDRagon (Bobby Fish & Kyle O'Reilly)
    Sho Tanaka, Yohei Komatsu, Katsuyori Shibata & Yuji Nagata v Jay White, David Finlay, Manabu Nakanishi & Tetsuya Naito

    Hyogo 27/9

    IC Title : Hirooki Goto v Shinsuke Nakamura
    G1 Briefcase : Hiroshi Tanahashi v Bad Luck Fale
    Jr.Heavy Tag : reDRagon v Time Splitters (KUSHIDA & Alex Shelley)
    Kazushi Sakuraba, Toru Yano & Kazuchika Okada v Tama Tonga, AJ Styles & Yujiro Takahashi
    Katsuyori Shibata v Tetsuya Naito
    Matt Sydal, Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan v Kenny Omega, Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows
    Mascara Dorada, Ryusuke Taguchi, Tomoaki Honma & Togi Makabe v RPG Vice, YOSHI-HASHI & Tomohiro Ishii
    Tiger Mask, Jushin Thunder Liger & Yuji Nagata v Juice Robinson, Captain New Japan & Manabu Nakanishi
    Sho Tanaka & Yohei Komatsu v Jay White & David Finlay
    A severe lack of anything interesting here. Goto Vs Nakamura again? I suppose CJ Parker and Matt Sydal randomly showing up for tag matches catches the eye. Looking forward to Naito/Shibata the most.

    Let's hope KUSHIDA doesn't blow off his limb selling this time.
    Last edited by Ed; 08-24-2015 at 05:59 AM.

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    NJPW Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Ibushi & KUSHIDA can both flounder back to curtain jerking if they bring the effort we've seen in the last two months.

    Hopefully they don't do any funny business with the main event title matches and just have Ibushi & Goto get clean wins, though unfortunately if there's some kind of secret opponent for Styles it's not out of the question for Nak to win here and them have a tiebreaker 5th match at WK, which would hurt both men in reputation as well as WK match quality but you can't count anything out with Gedo in charge and it being Goto. Ibushi losing would be more surprising and almost as horrible of an idea. Regardless, neither match are very exciting.

    Love Sydal, but not in meaningless 6 mans. I have no interest in seeing CJ Parker in this company under any circumstances.

    Naito/Shibata should have some sort of angle involved to start up a long term feud I hope but it's something at least. Could be pretty great if just a straight match.

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    I suppose CJ Parker and Matt Sydal randomly showing up for tag matches catches the eye.
    Sydal's not so random. He went over KUSHIDA at the Philly ROH show, so I would imagine NJPW have more use in mind for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diksting
    You can't have a reasonable discussion about serious topics with people like Marketh around.

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Wow I can't help but feel that there are a bunch of guys wasted in tag matches. I could see for one night but the fact Sydal, Okada, Aj, and Ishii among other guys are all stuck in tag matches for both nights makes zero sense. That's really Lazy Lazy booking, especially for two big shows.


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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Wow I can't help but feel that there are a bunch of guys wasted in tag matches. I could see for one night but the fact Sydal, Okada, Aj, and Ishii among other guys are all stuck in tag matches for both nights makes zero sense. That's really Lazy Lazy booking, especially for two big shows.
    Welcome to NJPW cards after big events.

    Sydal touring with the company is great news. Can't wait to see what he brings to the table. Even in tags against the Bullet Club.
    -------
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiZ-R View Post
    What the fuck is happening to you guys? I once got a blowjob where she used her teeth a little bit too much and I ended up with a bloody dick, I still enjoyed the blowjob up to the point I started bleeding. I can honestly say that I have never had anything I would call a bad blowjob, that wasn't a great experience but up until I started gushing blood I was having a great time!
    Spoiler:


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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Doubt they'll use him as a heel but I wouldn't mind seeing Sydal join the Bullet Club eventually (or just be a heel..). The little heel work I've witnessed from him was very interesting and the world deserves to see more.

    Also interested to see Juice Robinson do his thing. I was warming up to him toward the end of his NXT stuff and will be interested to see what, if any changes, we see in his matches. Didn't really check him out in CZW but I imagine Japan would be a more drastic/noticeable difference.

    I would echo the feelings/sentiment toward the multi-man matches but I don't think there's anyone here who disagrees. I kind of want them to add some significance to the matches, but I'm worried they would go overboard and then it would get convoluted.
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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Didn't CJ Parker say he was retiring this weekend? Seems really odd New Japan would just bring him in like this.

    I'm wondering if ACH/Sydal is a possibility for The Jr Tag League in November.

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Didn't CJ Parker say he was retiring this weekend? Seems really odd New Japan would just bring him in like this.
    I thought I read someone suggest that he said "CJP is done" rather than that he was retiring, so the Juice Robinson thing could just be the next chapter. Hey, maybe we can get another retirement swerve and see Chucky T in Bullet Club. No? No one? ...

    Also enjoying all the Dorada. Is he at the tail end of a long tour with them or is he sticking around for a while?
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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Dorada signed a one year "loan" contract back in January, he should be around until the end of FantasticaMania and stuff. Wish they'd have given him more of a push while he's around, he's by far their best Jr. if you ask me. Whenever BUSHI gets back they should win the Jr. Tag titles and end my misery surrounding those belts.

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Dorada signed a one year "loan" contract back in January, he should be around until the end of FantasticaMania and stuff. Wish they'd have given him more of a push while he's around, he's by far their best Jr. if you ask me. Whenever BUSHI gets back they should win the Jr. Tag titles and end my misery surrounding those belts.
    I absolutely love Mascara Dorada too, at first I thought Aero Star was my favorite luchador. But Dorada literally is a faster bigger Aero Star and does some more crazy shit, the way he moves and his balance is literally just unparrelled. And that's judging from his Mexico stuff, haven't watched much of his Japan work, usually skip the first few matches on every card :p


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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Hyogo show is worth skipping, though the Okayama show looks interesting, though not worth phoning your friends about. The Liger&Mascara/Red Dragon match seems exciting though. Liger has slowed down but can still pull off a good match so the other guys might carry the big moves. The Bullet Club match would be more interesting if Anderson would drop the WWE heel act and actually wrestle like he did before joining BC. The NEVER match might be good not great. I hope New Japan gives us the good shit for King of Pro Wrestling because this card is underwhelming.

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    I don't understand this company.

    Spoiler:

    Omega/KUSHIDA had a typical crappy BC schmoz, but what was the point of having Omega drop the first place just to beat KUSHIDA here? I don't ever need to see Omega wrestle, but there's so many better uses to him than this. Poor KUSHIDA, destined to be Jr. Tag Champ I guess.

    Makabe talking about how he's the real pro wrestler was hilarious for all the wrong reasons, was a good match for this kind of hardcore deal. I actually had a hunch Ibushi because I do think he's getting depushed. But then the kicker, ISHII comes out to challenge Makabe. NOOOO. WHY.

    Pretty bland show overall though liked the Jr. Tag and Anthony/TM more than I thought, nothing worth rushing out of your way for. Shibata/Naito's gonna be sweet was my prevailing thought besides confusion at Ishii getting stuck with Makabe and KUSHIDA getting killed for little reason.

    My official prediction is that Omega/Ibushi's happening at the Dome as previously stated, but now for the Jr. Title.

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    I watched the Makabe/Ibushi match, better than the G1 match they had with each other, but nothing great. Was expecting a title change because I didn't see any point in feeding Ibushi to Makabe.........still don't. Fuck off with Makabe/Ishii again. Is Ibushi in the dog house? this is a pretty sudden depush down the card since his IWGP title match 4 months ago.

    Skipped the rest of the show because there's absolutely nothing on paper attracting me to watch a glorified 'road to' show. Hearing that Kushida dropping the title to Kenny Omega is retarded. Omega stunk the joint out as champion and Kushida seemed destined to have a much better run with the belt than the last time he won it in 2014, but nope, interesting Jr matches like Kushida Vs Dorada/Shelley/Sydal/Liger/Young boys just don't have that 'sports entertainment' factor that Bullet Club's Omega can bring to the table. FUCK OFF WITH THIS SHIT GEDO.

    If it wasn't for this Naito/Shibata match on Sunday I'd be ready to give up on this promotion till Jan 4th.

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    Mr. Victory Through Guts

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    I just think they're really dropping the ball right now with guys up and down the card. And even in ways I don't get. I really thought the poor G1 record said a lot about where they view Ibushi at right now with him in DDT too, and I'm not sure why because Ibushi's pushes have always been pretty successful even earlier in the year. But even still, Makabe doesn't benefit from beating Ibushi and going right back to Ishii, Ishii doesn't benefit from being in limbo all the time. Bottom line, Makabe & Ishii are going nowhere, Ibushi's giving no effort and not getting any booking. It's just...really bad.

    And still, Omega winning was probably worse than all that! You really have to feel for KUSHIDA. I know he was hyped to win that title and want to save the division, but they've done a lot of damage to him in my opinion. If he's just going to win the tag titles it's a big waste. Ed was right on about Omega, no way is he deserving of this push, and even if Sydal beats him this journey has helped nobody.

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    On the other end of the spectrum... I find Omega entrance amazing, character amazing, execution amazing. Over the top and wonderful. The fact that even the (comparatively) less animated members of Bullet Club conform to 'anime mode' around Omega is too entertaining. Knowing Kenny's love of anime brings this to another level entirely. He looks like he's having the time of his life and I feel no shame in saying I am enjoying him, too. Also One-Winged Angel, fantastic. Though I wanna echo Zero - why take the belt off of Omega just to give it back to him like this? I think I would have rather seen him defend against new people, but hey, looks like we'll get some of that with Sydal.

    The post-match segment was a little awkward but that seemed more 'how it was put together' than the people involved.

    I can see why people might not like how they're using Omega and Bullet Club so much, but I don't really mind it. And it's actually impressive just how salty it gets you guys.

    The one concession I make here is that there is maybe (ok, not maybe, definitely) too much interference, but I feel that way for a different reason. I think I mind it less b/c I've been a fan of the Bullet Club since its inception and have long since accepted that its their style. I "know what I'm getting myself into." But it's not like it doesn't make sense that they choose to behave this way. It's a completely viable tactic in a promotion that doesn't regulate enough. If anything, the reason I feel like there's too much interference is because I think it makes NJPW officials look ineffective and almost makes me want for an authority figure to show up and dole out some justice - to a degree. It also makes the other wrestlers look foolish for not banding together to route the BC threat like the days of WCW vs. NWO.

    Can anyone with a longer history watching this (I started a bit before G1 2013) tell me when interference in matches really became a thing in New Japan? Was it always sort of around but less frequent? Was it recently introduced? Is there someone (group or individual) that was associated with interference-by-default before Bullet Club? Even if I don't mind, I understand the complaints, but my real gripe with the Bullet Club is that the rest of the company is not reactionary enough, everyone just kind of lets them walk around like kings.

    On the opposite end of that, I have had enough Kingdom and Maria in NJPW for a lifetime. Found it satisfying that they were not here.

    And have I already asked someone to explain the Never Open Weight Championship to me? 'Never Open Weight' seems like a misnomer.
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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    I will say this about Omega, his post match "This is awkward" line after not getting his music played and losing his belt was funny. I like his entrance look and his finisher too, heck he's a cool guy outside the ring. My criticism of him is the bulk of his matches because they've been almost universally bad, same with the rest of that group. If the wrestling was more akin to what I enjoy, it'd be a much easier to pill to swallow. (though still the interference would be annoying) Definitely isn't something that bugs me beyond that though, just lowers my interest when there are other promotions out there that avoid this crap and are booked better.

    Plus it's not like it's like "man, this would all be great if BC weren't around", my point is they're hurting everybody with bad booking. Just look at Ibushi compared to 5 months ago. Goto's in big trouble if he loses tomorrow's match and even if he wins this feud with Nak hasn't helped either man. KUSHIDA took big damage losing the belt so quick...Makabe/Ishii are running in place, the only guy I would say that is being pushed effectively right now is Naito and I love this gimmick as much as everyone but compared to everything wrong it's not near enough. Really hard for me to get overly invested in NJPW as a whole right now.

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    BTW to answer your questions Nat, NJPW has almost always had at least one heel faction going around that I can remember since like nWo Japan, Team 2000, BLACK, GBH, CHAOS, Bullet Club definitely has taken it up to almost parody-level though.

    It's going to be hard to believe, but NEVER was originally supposed to be a "minor league" type deal where they'd let young freelancers work on smaller shows and pluck from for the main show, this was around the time guys like NOSAWA, Madoka & Kengo Mashimo were getting shots in NJPW. NEVER was kind of a play on NXT I always thought.

    ...

    I would love to see someone justify yesterday's terrible main event decision. Probably their best match but the result's just another in a long list of gut punches. Get this: Goto. Ibushi, & Shibata are all at the bottom of the barrel for kopw. How is that even possible?

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I will say this about Omega, his post match "This is awkward" line after not getting his music played and losing his belt was funny. I like his entrance look and his finisher too, heck he's a cool guy outside the ring. My criticism of him is the bulk of his matches because they've been almost universally bad, same with the rest of that group. If the wrestling was more akin to what I enjoy, it'd be a much easier to pill to swallow. (though still the interference would be annoying) Definitely isn't something that bugs me beyond that though, just lowers my interest when there are other promotions out there that avoid this crap and are booked better.
    "This is awkward" was pretty great. I don't look at any of the Bullet Club matches as master classes unless it's AJ Styles, so maybe through adjusted expectations, I am enjoying Kenny Omega as intended. That's how it feels, at least. Maybe I like his personality enough that I end up overlooking any qualms I would otherwise have about him as a wrestler but I never really see too much to complain about. Did you catch his PWG match against ACH? If so, what did you think of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Plus it's not like it's like "man, this would all be great if BC weren't around", my point is they're hurting everybody with bad booking. Just look at Ibushi compared to 5 months ago. Goto's in big trouble if he loses tomorrow's match and even if he wins this feud with Nak hasn't helped either man. KUSHIDA took big damage losing the belt so quick...Makabe/Ishii are running in place, the only guy I would say that is being pushed effectively right now is Naito and I love this gimmick as much as everyone but compared to everything wrong it's not near enough. Really hard for me to get overly invested in NJPW as a whole right now.
    Yeah, Ibushi seems a bit mishandled, and Goto the same. KUSHIDA feels like they want him in more of an underdog role than being particularly dominant and I can't say that I mind too much as I dig Omega as champ and Sydal/others as challengers. Makabe, and forgive me if his better years are behind him, seems at home next to Tenzan and Kojima as people I wouldn't mind giving an NWA Title Run to but would never really consider a big deal at this stage. Boggles my mind that he's a champion, but then, there are a lot of belts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    BTW to answer your questions Nat, NJPW has almost always had at least one heel faction going around that I can remember since like nWo Japan, Team 2000, BLACK, GBH, CHAOS, Bullet Club definitely has taken it up to almost parody-level though.
    Interesting. Bullet Club is definitely parody-level but I think that's one of their strongpoints, they are a self aware parody - the best kind.

    In those other instances? What killed the factions? Did NJPW organize and fight back? Did the factions fall apart from within? Did they get destroyed or absorbed by another faction? I love faction wars but it's understandably very grating to see a group like Bullet Club run rampant with nobody providing a counter-attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    It's going to be hard to believe, but NEVER was originally supposed to be a "minor league" type deal where they'd let young freelancers work on smaller shows and pluck from for the main show, this was around the time guys like NOSAWA, Madoka & Kengo Mashimo were getting shots in NJPW. NEVER was kind of a play on NXT I always thought.
    Wow. I really like the idea of that championship, something for freelancers. I wouldn't want to crowd the title scene in ROH, for instance, but it would be really cool to get more freelancers involved. And given New Japan World, it would be cool to have the occasional title change to look forward to on the house shows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I would love to see someone justify yesterday's terrible main event decision. Probably their best match but the result's just another in a long list of gut punches. Get this: Goto. Ibushi, & Shibata are all at the bottom of the barrel for kopw. How is that even possible?
    Goto and Ibushi, fair play. Shibata though, I don't really see him at the bottom of the barrel. I don't know why. Just something about him, I still regard him highly despite him being on the losing end of things. The other guys though, yeah I don't get it. After Ibushi/Nakamura, I was ready for the Ibushi Revolution. Maybe his commitments outside of NJPW are working against him?

    The Kingdom stuff was the most cringeworthy, but that seems over with for now. The Juniors stuff all seems pretty uninspired, like they're just going through the motions. No Fucks Naito is definitely the best thing going at present though.

    Forget all that shit, though. What about Honma?! Thought his little victory in the G1 might be the snowball that turns into a Honmavalanche but looks like they're going for a much slower burn. My body is ready.
    Last edited by The Natural; 09-28-2015 at 03:23 PM.
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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    I will say that Goto/Nakamura was their best match together in the series, probably the first time there was something besides a killer stretch at the finish, and I would probably have rated it even higher if I didn't know the result and would of been drawn into nearfalls. It's really WTF booking, Goto goes though Nak twice, and looks like he's being given a chance to draw the house on certain shows as IC champion, and it's all for nothing. I know why they've done it, because it's the lazy way they can get to Nakamura Vs Styles semi main event at the Dome, but that match is big enough without the title to be the semi main event anyway!

    I've explained my feelings on Bullet Club enough times, it's not the gimmick that frustrates me, it's the fact that they are mostly mediocre talents putting on mediocre matches taking the spots of guys I would actually give a fuck about watching.

    Anyone who wants to talk up New Japan as the best promotion in the world this year is out of their mind. They dropped the ball with Goto, they dropped the ball with Kushida, they dropped the ball with Ibushi, they dropped the ball with Honma, Ishii and Makabe are in stuck in the NEVER ending feud, The Kingdom Vs Bullet Club was some of the worst tag team matches I've seen from anywhere and there's no improvements in the Jr's division. Who is better off right now than when they started the year? Naito's probably the only guy I can make an strong argument for. The G1, and the two great matches from WK has propped them up this year. Gedo is making more fuck ups than 70 year old Vince McMahon.

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    Mr. Victory Through Guts

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    Re: NJPW Destruction 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by The Natural View Post
    "This is awkward" was pretty great. I don't look at any of the Bullet Club matches as master classes unless it's AJ Styles, so maybe through adjusted expectations, I am enjoying Kenny Omega as intended. That's how it feels, at least. Maybe I like his personality enough that I end up overlooking any qualms I would otherwise have about him as a wrestler but I never really see too much to complain about. Did you catch his PWG match against ACH? If so, what did you think of it?

    I just think Omega can only go so far in his current gimmick and it's really not something I enjoy. I've seen the clip of Stone Cold ACH and him and skipped that. But I've seen a lot of Omega in various companies and he's more of a personality than a great wrestler, never really been my bag. His NJPW run has underdelivered even by my standards though. The New Beginning match vs Taguchi was legit one of my least favorite of the year in any promotion.

    Yeah, Ibushi seems a bit mishandled, and Goto the same. KUSHIDA feels like they want him in more of an underdog role than being particularly dominant and I can't say that I mind too much as I dig Omega as champ and Sydal/others as challengers. Makabe, and forgive me if his better years are behind him, seems at home next to Tenzan and Kojima as people I wouldn't mind giving an NWA Title Run to but would never really consider a big deal at this stage. Boggles my mind that he's a champion, but then, there are a lot of belts.

    Makabe's the champ because he's one of the most famous guys in the mainstream. (He appears with a regular segment on one of Japan's bigger daytime talk shows where he travels the country eating various desserts) But again, he's not someone who I rate highly on the wrestling shows. As far as Omega and KUSHIDA, if you like Omega better that's fine, but then don't give the KUSHIDA the title only to cut him off at the legs.

    Interesting. Bullet Club is definitely parody-level but I think that's one of their strongpoints, they are a self aware parody - the best kind.

    In those other instances? What killed the factions? Did NJPW organize and fight back? Did the factions fall apart from within? Did they get destroyed or absorbed by another faction? I love faction wars but it's understandably very grating to see a group like Bullet Club run rampant with nobody providing a counter-attack.
    nWo Japan - Just kind of ended after losing a bunch to Team 2000, after which all their members joined T2000.

    Team 2000 - Had to deal with a bunch of MMA guys who got ousted, fizzled

    BLACK - There was a booking change and Riki Choshu was all like "Hey these stables we've been doing kinda suck so...you're all disbanded?" (This actually happened on the shows)

    GBH - All their members were all like "Screw you Makabe, we're starting our own group!" (CHAOS)

    CHAOS - You see what they're doing now

    So yeah odds are there won't be some dramatic ending to Bullet Club, they might all turn on someone and splinter off or they'll just fizzle out.

    Wow. I really like the idea of that championship, something for freelancers. I wouldn't want to crowd the title scene in ROH, for instance, but it would be really cool to get more freelancers involved. And given New Japan World, it would be cool to have the occasional title change to look forward to on the house shows.
    Yeah I agree. As a concept it's cool but they never did anything with it outside of like 5 shows in 2011 and ironically the belt has almost exclusively been held by old guys for it's entire existence. It really serves no purpose if you ask me nowadays other than to give guys like Makabe and Ishii a gold watch of sorts without REALLY pushing them.

    Goto and Ibushi, fair play. Shibata though, I don't really see him at the bottom of the barrel. I don't know why. Just something about him, I still regard him highly despite him being on the losing end of things. The other guys though, yeah I don't get it. After Ibushi/Nakamura, I was ready for the Ibushi Revolution. Maybe his commitments outside of NJPW are working against him?
    I mean, Shibata's in the same match as the other two at KOPW, teaming with Captain to take on old guys. You can't get much lower than that. Ibushi likes wrestling in DDT more than NJPW and it shows which I think is a large reason for what they're doing to him atm. If he's destined to be lower midcard for the next while I could easily see him leaving NJPW when his contract's up next year. The other guys unfortunately I think is a case of Gedo simply not seeing as much in Meiyu Tag as the fans.

    The Kingdom stuff was the most cringeworthy, but that seems over with for now. The Juniors stuff all seems pretty uninspired, like they're just going through the motions. No Fucks Naito is definitely the best thing going at present though.

    Forget all that shit, though. What about Honma?! Thought his little victory in the G1 might be the snowball that turns into a Honmavalanche but looks like they're going for a much slower burn. My body is ready.
    The Kingdom are terrible, there's little doubt about that.

    They ruined Honma already when they buried him and put him under Yujiro after his win right after his big moment. They had something with him and screwed it up, just like the rest. Maybe they'll put him in the NEVER title scene but I think the days of hoping for a rise up the card are over. I actually kind of would rather YOSHI-HASHI get a win/NEVER push, at least they haven't stop/started him to death and hurt him.

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