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Thread: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

  1. #101
    Mr. Victory Through Guts

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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    I *just watched this again. This might be my favorite non-G1 NJPW show in many years.

    I actually thought the main was clearly better than their more hyped earlier matches that were all the sam. Reached a much higher gear, eliminated quite a bit of downtime and pointless legwork that plagues Tanahashi matches, and stuff that irked me like Tanahashi randomly working in heel spots was traded out for sensible build to big moments. (that awesome over the rail HFF, Heavy Rain on the ramp) Also as Lucas pointed out the nearfalls were excellently timed and worked a lot better than in previous matches. I'm not fooled much in wrestling anymore and they had me on the back-to-back HFFs and the Rainmaker. Also Okada's post match selling was an amazing moment. That IS Pro wrestling right there.

    And it still wasn't my favorite match on the show.**Just the fact that Ibushi/Nak did so much better than I thought. Probably both men's best match of their careers. Just an amazing story told, Ibushi was made as a heavyweight. Big spots that were all hit well, told a nearly perfect story. Great selling by both men and that springboard German was off the charts. I wouldn't go ***** though because I thought Nak suddenly shoving the ref out was totally unnecessary and didn't add anything to the match and the wrong guy won. But those are very minor quips, I honestly don't know what these two could have done better. Ibushi standing up and smiling was the stuff of legend. It'll be hard to top this in MOTY running as far as I'm concerned. Very surprised by the somewhat low rating here. Are we really saying their G1 match was better??? I liked that match a lot don't get me wrong, but I just don't see that.

    Enjoyed Suzuki/Saku more the second go round with lowered expectations but still stand by before. I wanted UWF-i, man! Not "WWE does MMA" like we got. Get the feeling I liked this and AJ/Naito less than most. Another note on Naito, while I thought his terrible selling hurt the match, I LOVED his fire up spot right before he lifted AJ up for the Clash where he was like "Wah...WAAAH. WAAAAAAHH!!!". It was both slightly goofy and awesomely badass. He would make like the best Gibson ever in a RnR Express style tag team.

    Jim got TMDK mixed up. Haste did the Cannonball and Nicholls was the one who did nothing.**Still I don't know what people wanted from this match. This was a 5 minute match with 8 guys, none of which are highspot guys who shine in sprints. Of course nobody stood out. There was no story, no purpose, just a nothing match. It's not like anybody looked bad and tbf to Haste after his weak Cannonball, that great Chokeslam was all his jumping ability and willingness to take that bump.

    The less said about juniors on this show the better. Ugh. Can Omega get sent on a learning excursion? He might be the worst wrestler to come in since the Bucks. Would even prefer Chuck Taylor in this crappy gimmick.

    Really glad some new guys watched and for all intents and purposes seem to have been impressed enough to follow through to New Beginning. It's no secret I'm not the biggest NJPW fan around but it just warms my heart to see folks try new things. Hope y'all watch in July especially because the G1 is something else.

    Just general comments:

    First off I'm gonna make a comparison that Lucas like and nobody else will get. Suzuki, and Nakamura as well are like the Adam Dunn and Javier Baez of match quality. They bat .200 and strike out a lot but when they get ahold of one they knock that son of a bitch into the parking lot.

    Pinkman echoes my thoughts on JR/Striker. Striker did well despite usually being terrible and JR's still an elite big match voice, needs more reps to get the smaller stuff right.

    Really gotta point out something that was touched on. Loved the entrance walls and something NJPW rules at is having great theme music for everybody. Their "new" themes like Ibushi, Styles, even Gallows are all top notch. I actually like Styles' better than his TNA theme. Couple that with Nakamura, Goto, Shibata, & Suzuki's ace themes and someone needs some awards.

    I actually like Tanahashi's Air Guitar celebration, God help me. It did go on long though but it's WK so it's okay.

    Quick Final Star ratings:
    4 Way: *3/4
    6-Man: **1/2
    8-Man: **
    Suzuki/Sakuraba: **3/4
    Ishii/Makabe: ***
    Omega/Taguchi: *1/4
    Tag Titles: ***3/4
    Styles/Naito: ***1/4
    Ibushi/Nakamura: ****3/4
    Tanahashi/Okada: ****1/2


    We can tell other people about...having faith. What we had faith in. What we found important enough to fight for. It's not whether you were right or wrong, but how much faith you were willing to have, that decides the future~

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  2. #102
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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    +1 for the baseball reference.

    It's weird though because I wouldn't have thought Nakamura was that average. Figured most of his stuff was superb.

    But yeah, the ref stuff in the Nakamura/Ibushi match really bugged me. Not just the pushing, but the counting too.

  3. #103

    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by PeepShow View Post
    It's weird though because I wouldn't have thought Nakamura was that average. Figured most of his stuff was superb.
    Don't listen to Zero. He sadly ate too many paint chips as a kid.

    Without a doubt, Nakamura has been the #1 reason why I've enjoyed New Japan ever since I began watching the current product starting back at G1 Climax 2011. Nakamura has had MOTYC's every year, has single-handedly made that IC Title mean something after a less than amazing start and doing all that while being one of the coolest mofos on the planet.

  4. #104
    Mr. Victory Through Guts

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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    Keep in mind Jim often picks and chooses matches while I watch mostly everything.

    He (like Naito) has a real problem selling his leg when the match revolves around that, and has a habit of spamming his knee strike finish to almost crazy extremes. Those two things are certainly true but I know I'm in the minority with saying that his gimmick doesn't appeal to me. I compare him a lot to Bray Wyatt in a lot of ways not because they act anywhere close to the same but because everything they do that's apart of their respective gimmicks is just at random and with no real reason or connection to each other. (Welp, I'm gonna act like MJ, Welp, I'm gonna shake around, Welp, I'm gonna stick my head in someone's crotch, Welp, I'm gonna dress up like the statue of liberty) Plus his matches themselves he often disappoints in, like the time he wrestled Suzuki that everyone freaked out over and it fell flat. He's also the only person in NJPW to be outperformed by Shelton every time they've wrestled. (Just letting you know I don't think anyone thinks Shelton's anywhere near top tier in general anymore)

    Also want to say what Jim says is true about MOTYCs and whatnot. But just like I said earlier, he knocks it out of the park in his top 2-3 matches every year and there's no doubt he's got potential to be the BITW if he wanted to be. But to me he's more interested in schtick wrestling and just getting his signature spots in most of the time and that's why I don't rank him highly.
    Last edited by Zero; 01-09-2015 at 02:31 PM.


    We can tell other people about...having faith. What we had faith in. What we found important enough to fight for. It's not whether you were right or wrong, but how much faith you were willing to have, that decides the future~

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  5. #105
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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    Nakamura for sure is inconsistent, there are a number of matches he's had that on paper look strong, but then they fall flat. I don't have the number of problems with him that Zero has, I can't say I've noticed much non-selling of the leg, although there are some matches where he does about 5 Boma Ye's which is overkill.

  6. #106
    Mr. Victory Through Guts

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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    I'm thinking of the matches like with Shelton at G1 last year or Tanahashi at Invasion Attack. Much of the match was spent working the leg and Nak used his same moves as he always used for his comeback. (not just the Boma Ye but a lot of knee-based moves that are in his repertoire) I was like, you couldn't even use the other leg, dude?


    We can tell other people about...having faith. What we had faith in. What we found important enough to fight for. It's not whether you were right or wrong, but how much faith you were willing to have, that decides the future~

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  7. #107

    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Keep in mind Jim often picks and chooses matches while I watch mostly everything.
    See, that's not exactly true. Sure, I'll fully admit that I did not watch much New Japan at all for most of 2014, but when I am an active viewer, I tend to watch everything.

    So I'd say I'm more of an inconsistent viewer rather than one who only picks and chooses which matches to watch.

    Get it right, n00b!

    Nakamura > Zero

  8. #108
    Mr. Victory Through Guts

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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    Okay okay, that's fair. An inconsistent viewer for an inconsistent worker. ;D

    In his defense Nak does have me beat when it comes to leather collection and having a hot wife.


    We can tell other people about...having faith. What we had faith in. What we found important enough to fight for. It's not whether you were right or wrong, but how much faith you were willing to have, that decides the future~

    Follow me on Twitter - @DylanZeroSky

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  9. #109
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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    I get your baseball reference and comparing Nakamura to free swingers is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

    More like Cutch, imo.
    -------
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiZ-R View Post
    What the fuck is happening to you guys? I once got a blowjob where she used her teeth a little bit too much and I ended up with a bloody dick, I still enjoyed the blowjob up to the point I started bleeding. I can honestly say that I have never had anything I would call a bad blowjob, that wasn't a great experience but up until I started gushing blood I was having a great time!
    Spoiler:


  10. #110
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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by PeepShow View Post
    +1 for the baseball reference.
    This was great
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Nakamura for sure is inconsistent, there are a number of matches he's had that on paper look strong, but then they fall flat. I don't have the number of problems with him that Zero has, I can't say I've noticed much non-selling of the leg, although there are some matches where he does about 5 Boma Ye's which is overkill.
    I've begun to notice the amount of Boma Ye's, or at least attmepts on doing them.

    On average, how many HFF's does Tanahashi go for in a match?

  11. #111
    Mr. Victory Through Guts

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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky Talent View Post
    I get your baseball reference and comparing Nakamura to free swingers is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

    More like Cutch, imo.
    Nak as Cutch? Guess you're an "inconsistent viewer" too. Can't argue with the facts, just depends on how much it bothers you, just like with Naito. If you only care about the top 5% of someone's matches then he's definitely one of the best around. I honestly don't know how someone can say he's consistently great with any sort of logic though.

    Do agree that Tanahashi has a similar problem with repetitive finishers on a smaller level, though I can't remember him going for more than 3 outside of this last match. In his heyday Tana would almost always use 2. (one miss, one hits later ftw) He's actually gotten better as he's aged though, him as a main eventer in the late 00's/early 10's was one of my least favorite runs for a main eventer in any company due to his steadfast routine.


    We can tell other people about...having faith. What we had faith in. What we found important enough to fight for. It's not whether you were right or wrong, but how much faith you were willing to have, that decides the future~

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  12. #112
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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Do agree that Tanahashi has a similar problem with repetitive finishers on a smaller level, though I can't remember him going for more than 3 outside of this last match. In his heyday Tana would almost always use 2. (one miss, one hits later ftw) He's actually gotten better as he's aged though, him as a main eventer in the late 00's/early 10's was one of my least favorite runs for a main eventer in any company due to his steadfast routine.
    With the Rainmaker and Boma Ye, I like that they're both moves that you could vitually hit at any given time. But it does take away from it a bit when they attempt the moves too many times.

    So far I've only seen two of the meetings with Okada & Tanahashi, and I noticed they do a lot of back and fourth with Okada going for the tombstone. That I don't mind as much.

    With it being the "big WK match", I accepted the higher amount of HFF's from Tanahashi. The one to over the barricade was pretty damn amazing.

  13. #113
    Mr. Victory Through Guts

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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    I agree with all that, BenWah. I think everyone gets kind of a WK exception on using big moves too much. Especially when one is that crazy looking like Tana's barricade dive. Also thought Nak himself didn't go into overkill in his own match anyway. I hope we see more of THAT guy that reminded me of the Nakamura I saw in 2010 that was my favorite wrestler in the world going forward. If we see more of that more than the free swinger I was talking about, nobody will be happier than me even if I'm not a fan of the Michael Jackson gimmick and mannerisms and such.


    We can tell other people about...having faith. What we had faith in. What we found important enough to fight for. It's not whether you were right or wrong, but how much faith you were willing to have, that decides the future~

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  14. #114
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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    ugh, zero, what a bunch of disgusting smarkness

    I'm not the world's biggest Naka fan but aside from Boma Ye overkills most "problems" seem uber nitpicky.
    -------
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiZ-R View Post
    What the fuck is happening to you guys? I once got a blowjob where she used her teeth a little bit too much and I ended up with a bloody dick, I still enjoyed the blowjob up to the point I started bleeding. I can honestly say that I have never had anything I would call a bad blowjob, that wasn't a great experience but up until I started gushing blood I was having a great time!
    Spoiler:


  15. #115
    Mr. Victory Through Guts

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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky Talent View Post
    ugh, zero, what a bunch of disgusting smarkness

    I'm not the world's biggest Naka fan but aside from Boma Ye overkills most "problems" seem uber nitpicky.
    Blowing off your opponent's work and being underwhelming in some of his big matches seems like a pretty big deal when we're talking about ring work. Don't care at all about being smarky or whatever, just calling it how I see it. Also can understand why people dig his character and stuff but I'm just saying it isn't for me and beyond that he doesn't put in what the top tier or Cutch's of the wrestling world do and those guys don't have those bad habits I'm talking about with Nak.


    We can tell other people about...having faith. What we had faith in. What we found important enough to fight for. It's not whether you were right or wrong, but how much faith you were willing to have, that decides the future~

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  16. #116
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    Re: Wrestle Kingdom IX - January 4th 2015

    I finally finished this yesterday before the Royal Rumble. Great card. I came away from the show in love with Okada and the Rainmaker Clothesline. Looking forward to watching more NJPW even though it will be in Japanese.

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