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Thread: The Ask Jim Thread

  1. #2901

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    Who is someone you like in wrestling that not alot of people like?
    The Barbarian is the first one that pops into my head. I've been a fan of his work since I was a kid due to his slightly eccentric style. Depending on where you look, a lot of people shit on Scott Norton, but he's another one I've enjoyed his style and wish WCW actually did something with him. The Ultimate Warrior is one that often gets shit on, but when it came to the matches that actually mattered, Warrior succeeded more than he failed. This one is more WC centric, but the likes of Davey Richards and Travis Banks that gets shit on a lot, but I loved.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    The Barbarian is the first one that pops into my head. I've been a fan of his work since I was a kid due to his slightly eccentric style. Depending on where you look, a lot of people shit on Scott Norton, but he's another one I've enjoyed his style and wish WCW actually did something with him. The Ultimate Warrior is one that often gets shit on, but when it came to the matches that actually mattered, Warrior succeeded more than he failed. This one is more WC centric, but the likes of Davey Richards and Travis Banks that gets shit on a lot, but I loved.
    That's funny cause I really don't like Richards he's got a cool finish name though Boston Knee Party but he feels way to imitation Ambrose for me. Travis Banks though hes a hell of a wrestler


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  3. #2903

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    That's funny cause I really don't like Richards he's got a cool finish name though Boston Knee Party but he feels way to imitation Ambrose for me.
    Are you thinking of Eddie Edwards?

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Are you thinking of Eddie Edwards?
    I would hope so. But even then...

  5. #2905
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Jim is there any wrestler or wrestlers you can think of that had a great career (whatever that means to you, I'll leave it open to interpretation) after starting with a number of bad gimmicks?

    Stone Cold pops to mind, but other than The Ringmaster, he never really had a truly horrible gimmick. Stunning Steve worked for the time.

    Terry Taylor had a number of bad gimmicks and had a better career than most, but I'd never say it was great by any means.

    You could also throw a Mike Rotunda in the same area of Taylor...good, but not great.

  6. #2906

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Miracle View Post
    Jim is there any wrestler or wrestlers you can think of that had a great career (whatever that means to you, I'll leave it open to interpretation) after starting with a number of bad gimmicks?

    Stone Cold pops to mind, but other than The Ringmaster, he never really had a truly horrible gimmick. Stunning Steve worked for the time.

    Terry Taylor had a number of bad gimmicks and had a better career than most, but I'd never say it was great by any means.

    You could also throw a Mike Rotunda in the same area of Taylor...good, but not great.
    Austin doesn't deserve to be mentioned at all. None of his gimmicks were bad. The Ringmaster was a perfectly fine gimmick, but it's more of a gimmick for a stoic wrestler like Dean Malenko or Lance Storm, not someone loaded with personality like Austin.

    Taylor's bad gimmicks came later on in his career rather than starting off with the lousy ones.

    Again, Rotunda's gimmicks came later on in his career after being plain old Mike Rotunda for years. Considering it's what he's mostly known for, you can't say bad gimmicks was a big thing since Rotunda is IRS.
    ---

    The single most obvious pick would have to be Kane. He fits what you're looking for perfectly. With such WWE gimmicks as Dr. Issac Yankem DDS and The New Diesel, then non-WWE gimmicks like Christmas Creature, he then lucked into being given yet another gimmick, but this time a character that would end up becoming a massive success to the point that he can still sometimes be seen working the gimmick 22 years later.

  7. #2907
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Al Snow with Avatar and Leif Cassidy come to mind also Rikishi between the Headshrinkers and Rikishi he was Make a Difference Fatu and The Sultan. Someone might say Godfather but I liked Shango.


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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Since I noticed you gave it a whopping .5 higher rating than I did, what are your brief thoughts on the movie Polaroid?


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  9. #2909
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Are you thinking of Eddie Edwards?
    Yeah my bad. I get those two names confused.


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  10. #2910

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeYourBooty View Post
    Al Snow with Avatar and Leif Cassidy come to mind also Rikishi between the Headshrinkers and Rikishi he was Make a Difference Fatu and The Sultan. Someone might say Godfather but I liked Shango.
    Rikishi doesn't fit this since SST/Headshrinkers was a successful gimmick to start off his career. His bad gimmicks came in the middle of his career, not the beginning.

    I'm unsure about Snow. He started off as generic Snow, which was fine in the early 90s. It fits more than Rikishi though.

    I thought about The Godfather, but I'm unsure if great really fits him.

    After my previous post, bringing up Kane made me realize that the other Diesel fits this too. Starting as a member of The Master Blasters before briefly going off as his own as the Master Blaster, then given the role of Oz, and then Vinnie Vegas. Vegas a decent gimmick, but it was odd casting inserting a giant into the role. He finally found some success as Diesel, but I can see someone arguing that was a bad gimmick due to his 1995, which lead to Kevin Nash finding the most success of his career as Kevin Nash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuji Vice View Post
    Since I noticed you gave it a whopping .5 higher rating than I did, what are your brief thoughts on the movie Polaroid?
    In recent history, it may have been the longest I've been actively waiting to see. After being delayed multiple times since 2016/2017, it was kind of exciting just seeing that it's finally available. The movie was pretty shit though. It bugged me that the plot stated that the lead was a loner despite showing her having several friends including one that is crushing on her prior to his death. Any time the lame ghost came to kill, it had some knife stabbing sound, which made it a little confusing as to what was happening. They were apparently paid by the twist with the backstory of the villain changing multiple times. When it comes to quality, it reminds me of The Bye Bye Man. It's not noteworthy for sucking, but it feels so dated while being unexciting.

    It did cause me to immediately start watching the Goosebumps ep, Say Cheese and Die, after finishing Polaroid though. That's at least fun in being shitty.

  11. #2911
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Nash is definitely the epitome of this question and I have no recollection of preAvatar/Leif Al Snow.

    Raven as Johnny Polo and Scotty Flamingo might fit


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  12. #2912

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeYourBooty View Post
    Nash is definitely the epitome of this question and I have no recollection of preAvatar/Leif Al Snow.
    He was surprisingly a really well respected indie guy back then. Basically an "IWC" favorite in those early internet days.

    Raven as Johnny Polo and Scotty Flamingo might fit
    For a small scale wrestler, his gimmicks then were a hit. Maybe less so in the big companies, but pre-WCW Flamingo was a bit of a hot act that it was only a matter of time before a bigger company snatched him up. He just happened to find a much more successful gimmick later on in Raven.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    That tag match he had with Ricky Steamboat against The Dream Team from Maple Leaf Gardens around WM 1 was a legit WWE MOTY. He had a few great matches with Greg Valentine and the street fights with Randy Savage in 1986.
    I'll have to see if that's on the network.

    I've been looking at the 1984-1986 period quite a bit lately. Partly because of TEW and partly because of watching some of the Mid South Wrestling shows the Network posted up. I was actually surprised by the regular tag teams that the WWF right at the start of 1985. It looks like the tag division got a pretty good injection of talent thru 1985.
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  14. #2914

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    I'll have to see if that's on the network.
    It is. It's in the Old School section of The Vault. Maple Leaf Gardens, April 21, 1985. Tito and The Dragon are even featured in the screenshot for the event.

    I've been looking at the 1984-1986 period quite a bit lately. Partly because of TEW and partly because of watching some of the Mid South Wrestling shows the Network posted up. I was actually surprised by the regular tag teams that the WWF right at the start of 1985. It looks like the tag division got a pretty good injection of talent thru 1985.
    In general, there was a big influx of talent when Vince Jr. took over and over the next five years brought in all of this new talent while phasing out Vince Sr's talent. In some cases, it meant a young Curt Hennig was shown the door at the start of 1983 and then brought back as a star in 1988.

    As far as tag teams go, Vince Sr. was never too concerned about tag teams. Part of it is because Bruno wasn't interested in the WWE having such an in depth tag division when he was meant to be the peak star. When you look at who was the WWE Tag Team Champions when Vince Sr. was in charge, there's a lot of makeshift teams, especially when it came to the babyfaces. Vince Sr. seemed a little more comfortable with having proper teams when it came to heels though.

    Between 1984-1986, you had a ton of teams either brought in or paired together. A lot of these were probably just makeshift teams, but under the disguise of a proper team due to being given a flashy tag name (The Dream Team, for example), but there was still the creation of The US Express, The Hart Foundation, The British Bulldogs, The Killer Bees, The Dream Team, The Rougeau Brothers, The Machines and then plenty of really decent makeshift teams like King Kong Bundy/Big John Studd, Nikolai Volkoff/The Iron Sheik, and Ricky Steamboat & Jimmy Snuka/Tito Santana.

    The 80s was an interesting time. If you weren't a fan of the product, just wait a year and the roster would look entirely different one year later. In 1985 alone, the WWE brought in Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Dynamite Kid, and Davey Boy Smith. That's an insane boost to a roster's workrate.

  15. #2915
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Jim how long do you honestly think New Jack would of lasted in WWE if he was used as the man who stabbed Cena at nightclub?


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  16. #2916

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    Jim how long do you honestly think New Jack would of lasted in WWE if he was used as the man who stabbed Cena at nightclub?
    What a bizarre urban legend that is, and one that I struggle to see any chance of being accurate.

    I don't see New Jack lasting long. At most, he'd be around for as long as Jesus was. By the fall of 2004, it was clear that Cena was about to get a major push, so even if New Jack had been brought in, the feud with Cena wouldn't have been able to be more than a couple of months long. After that, what do you do with New Jack? You just know there's going to be issues. Although we weren't in the PG era, the Hardcore division was dead and buried. It would have been a short enough run that New Jack would be included in all of those "Forgotten WWE Runs" lists. That's essentially what happened with New Jack's TNA run in 2003.

  17. #2917
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    In recent history, it may have been the longest I've been actively waiting to see. After being delayed multiple times since 2016/2017, it was kind of exciting just seeing that it's finally available. The movie was pretty shit though. It bugged me that the plot stated that the lead was a loner despite showing her having several friends including one that is crushing on her prior to his death.
    I felt she was more of the odd one out in her group of friends than an actual loner, but it didn't matter because her character, and all the rest of them, were so horribly cliched. I honestly didn't care about a single one of them and the only person I was remotely invested in was the Sheriff, which of course was solely due to the fact that Mitch Pileggi was playing him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim
    It did cause me to immediately start watching the Goosebumps ep, Say Cheese and Die, after finishing Polaroid though. That's at least fun in being shitty.
    When I saw the trailer for Polaroid I remember thinking that it reminded me of Skew, if only due to the camera factor. After watching it, all I want to do is watch Skew again because it's infinitely superior to this crap.


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  18. #2918

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuji Vice View Post
    I felt she was more of the odd one out in her group of friends than an actual loner, but it didn't matter because her character, and all the rest of them, were so horribly cliched. I honestly didn't care about a single one of them and the only person I was remotely invested in was the Sheriff, which of course was solely due to the fact that Mitch Pileggi was playing him.
    It's fair to say that Bird was the odd one in the group, but the IMDb plot still makes me roll my eyes as it's so misleading and there's no reason for it.

    Yeah, it was nice seeing Mitch Pileggi again. It did feel pretty predictable that he ended up being revealed to be a villain.

    When I saw the trailer for Polaroid I remember thinking that it reminded me of Skew, if only due to the camera factor. After watching it, all I want to do is watch Skew again because it's infinitely superior to this crap.
    Skew was good and creative enough for it to stand out against other found footage movies that were coming out so often back then.

  19. #2919
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    It is. It's in the Old School section of The Vault. Maple Leaf Gardens, April 21, 1985. Tito and The Dragon are even featured in the screenshot for the event.

    In general, there was a big influx of talent when Vince Jr. took over and over the next five years brought in all of this new talent while phasing out Vince Sr's talent. In some cases, it meant a young Curt Hennig was shown the door at the start of 1983 and then brought back as a star in 1988.

    As far as tag teams go, Vince Sr. was never too concerned about tag teams. Part of it is because Bruno wasn't interested in the WWE having such an in depth tag division when he was meant to be the peak star. When you look at who was the WWE Tag Team Champions when Vince Sr. was in charge, there's a lot of makeshift teams, especially when it came to the babyfaces. Vince Sr. seemed a little more comfortable with having proper teams when it came to heels though.

    Between 1984-1986, you had a ton of teams either brought in or paired together. A lot of these were probably just makeshift teams, but under the disguise of a proper team due to being given a flashy tag name (The Dream Team, for example), but there was still the creation of The US Express, The Hart Foundation, The British Bulldogs, The Killer Bees, The Dream Team, The Rougeau Brothers, The Machines and then plenty of really decent makeshift teams like King Kong Bundy/Big John Studd, Nikolai Volkoff/The Iron Sheik, and Ricky Steamboat & Jimmy Snuka/Tito Santana.

    The 80s was an interesting time. If you weren't a fan of the product, just wait a year and the roster would look entirely different one year later. In 1985 alone, the WWE brought in Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Dynamite Kid, and Davey Boy Smith. That's an insane boost to a roster's workrate.
    Found it. Watched it. Enjoyed it.

    Really liked that the traditional hot tags were about the athleticism of the two babyfaces. Small thing but made it feel a bit different.

    Looking through the 1985 stuff, I am realizing how much more I know about the later half of the decade than the first half. I always have this idea of the transition from the Vince Senior era to the Vince Junior era being more... hard and immediate. And a bit later than the 1982 buy. But it clearly wasn't - it was a gradual transition over time. I know that I don't know the Vince Senior era as well - I've seen plenty of individual matches but not a lot of full shows. Realizing that's the case with pre-WM as a whole.

    Browsing through the WWF roster in the 1985 mod in TEW (starts in January 1985) compared to the Golden Age Mod (starts in March 1987) really reinforces the transition of the roster.

    Another little dynamic I've realized is that because I remember some of these teams from when I was kid, Smaller Papa did not differentiate between throw-together teams and proper teams.

    And finally.... thoughts on the US Express? Looking at that combo, it seems like it had a ton of potential.
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  20. #2920

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Looking through the 1985 stuff, I am realizing how much more I know about the later half of the decade than the first half. I always have this idea of the transition from the Vince Senior era to the Vince Junior era being more... hard and immediate. And a bit later than the 1982 buy. But it clearly wasn't - it was a gradual transition over time. I know that I don't know the Vince Senior era as well - I've seen plenty of individual matches but not a lot of full shows. Realizing that's the case with pre-WM as a whole.
    In some ways, it was big changes at every step, but a ton of things had to happen from when Vince Jr. took over to where the company was at when the decade wrapped up. The best examples of this were all of the top stars that were on top in that few years period where Vince Jr took over to Wrestlemania 1. Sgt. Slaughter, Dr. D, Bob Backlund, The Wild Samoans, Dick Murdoch, and others all just vanished before the culmination of Vince's first period of being in full control. Then just after Wrestlemania 1, more major stars like Jimmy Snuka and Ken Patera left too.

    For a guy who is now slated as being out of ideas, McMahon did a great job of keeping Hogan fresh in the 80s with his opponents. Despite the fact that the WWE was just coming off of a multiple year reign by Backlund, McMahon didn't have Hogan deal with many of the same guys who challenged Backlund. New signings like Dr. D, Piper, Orndorff, ect helped in that first year. In 1985, you had King Kong Bundy and Randy Savage get signed. In 1986, new twists with different gimmicks for Adrian Adonis and Paul Orndorff having a new reason to be upset with Hogan. In 1987, there was the big twist with Andre's heel turn and the incoming of new signings like Harley Race and Ted DiBiase. 1988 had the newly put together Twin Towers and Bad News Brown. Then to cap off the decade, there was Zeus.

    It was all about that revolving door of talent. With the exception of very few talents, if you were a significant star in Vince Jr's 80s, you weren't going to be in the company or getting a push a couple of years later.

    Another little dynamic I've realized is that because I remember some of these teams from when I was kid, Smaller Papa did not differentiate between throw-together teams and proper teams.
    I suppose just from the perspective of watching the shows, there's not a difference between a proper team and a makeshift team other than longevity. Back in the 80s, Vince did seem much more reluctant to give the tag titles to a makeshift team though. Looking back, it's always weird to me that a pairing like Big John Studd and King Kong Bundy never won the tag titles. Although, maybe it was really just a matter of if you put the belts on them, then eventually you're going to have to have them lose to a regular tag team. Unless they were wrestling a makeshift team with either Hogan or Andre or battling The Machines (Even then, the winners were often split), Bundy/Studd didn't lose especially against a normal team.

    And finally.... thoughts on the US Express? Looking at that combo, it seems like it had a ton of potential.
    They were good. They didn't have much to work with since McMahon was just starting to put in effort with bringing in or putting together the memorable tag teams of the second half of the 80s. I don't know why McMahon felt this way, but I get the impression that McMahon didn't care for the team. Despite being 2x tag team champions, they were never McMahon's team. They got the titles in the first place because Dick Murdoch had given his notice and the WWE needed to get the tag titles off of Murdoch/Adonis quickly. The US Express were the only decent choice with makeshift teams (Snuka/Tonga Kid) or jobber teams (SD Jones/George Wells) being your other options. This goes back to the constant changes in the roster then. The top two tag teams of 1984 were The Wild Samoans and Murdoch/Adonis. Meanwhile, McMahon lost The Wild Samoans at the end of 1984 and Murdoch at the start of 1985.

    Part of the issue is that The US Express were in the company entirely in a time period where McMahon desperately wanted The British Bulldogs to sign with the WWE, but they wouldn't since they were making too much money in Japan with NJPW and then AJPW, instead just working for the WWE on a part time basis until McMahon finally got them on a full time basis in 1986. My assumption is that McMahon saw The US Express as the Gobots to the Bulldogs' Transformers.

    So overall, The US Express were okay. They were reliable, but the quality drastically improved once The Bulldogs were placed in their spot. Bulldogs (And Savage) pretty much are responsible for bringing workrate to the WWE.

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