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Thread: The Ask Jim Thread

  1. #2561
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Question:

    What do you think ultimately destroyed WCW?

    There are many things fans point out. But to me, that Hogan-Sting match at SC '97 and it's terrible ending (Thanks, Hulk!) was what set the wheels in motion for it's collapse.

    After a year of great build-up we got that crapfest match with a fast three count that wasn't fast and Hogan never tapped out or said he quit when in the Scorpion Leglock. I remember watching that match on PPV and feeling like I wasted my time and money.

    I know WCW won the ratings war for like four more months. But it always seemed like the slide started with that match.

    Your thoughts...

    The Finger Poke of Doom

    Hiring Vince Russo

    Kellner's final decision to yank the show from Turner networks

    Bischoff's arrogant attitude and then having no idea what to do once things started going south on him

    The piss poor TV the last two years

    Failing to protect Goldberg properly after he won the belt

    Anything to add? Your two cents...

    Some people were talking about Harley. Here's a Harley classic interview. Let's see John Cena do this!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB0gt12NXp0
    Last edited by vadermania; 08-06-2017 at 06:29 AM.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vadermania View Post
    Question:

    What do you think ultimately destroyed WCW?
    It begins and ends with Jamie Kellner pulling WCW action off of Turner television. Sure, a lot of things influenced WCW's downfall from their brief period of success, but had WCW remained on Turner TV, the company would have continued to exist with Eric Bischoff as the new owner, thus always giving them the chance to improve. That's the big difference between owners that are not a fan of wrestling and those that are too stubbornly in love with the product (Dixie Carter). Any company can continue to survive if the owners are determined to not let the company die, regardless of what common sense would say to do.

    There are many things fans point out. But to me, that Hogan-Sting match at SC '97 and it's terrible ending (Thanks, Hulk!) was what set the wheels in motion for it's collapse.

    After a year of great build-up we got that crapfest match with a fast three count that wasn't fast and Hogan never tapped out or said he quit when in the Scorpion Leglock. I remember watching that match on PPV and feeling like I wasted my time and money.
    Something that doesn't get brought up often enough is the decision to drag the program out until Starrcade. There's some that believes the peak time to run the match was in the middle of 1997 and by time December came around, the heat had gone down a bit. This would have allowed WCW to fully take advantage of the hiring of Bret Hart instead of bringing him in and not being able to immediately put him in as World Champion as Sting needed a bit of time with it. The failure of Hogan/Sting, despite its great buyrate, did come at a bad time as the WWE was finally starting to find something that was gaining traction.

    I know WCW won the ratings war for like four more months. But it always seemed like the slide started with that match.
    It was actually the opposite. Thanks to the WWE now being hot, there were so many new fans tuning in each Monday, allowing Nitro to have some of their best Nitro ratings of the Monday Night War. The best Nitro rating in 1997 was on August 25th when Raw was preempted (I presume it aired on Tuesday that week). Meanwhile, 1998 had about six episodes of Nitro that drew a bigger rating, even reaching as high as a 6.0 rating on August 28th (Another time they ran unopposed to Raw). But that's the thing, when things are going downhill, it tends not to happen so overnight especially when the total amount of wrestling fans were increasing.

    Your thoughts...

    The Finger Poke of Doom
    I imagine you can find various rants about it in this thread and my WCW PPV reviews. It's an angle that made absolutely zero sense and made the entire nWo Hollywood vs nWo Wolfpac, a program that had been going on for nearly a year, all kinda pointless. I know some tries to defend it some by saying the original idea was to build to Goldberg getting revenge, but this Finger Poke of Doom killed the streak and for what? Goldberg eventually getting his heat back? After all of this BS, the nWo would basically quietly end in just a few more months.

    Hiring Vince Russo
    At the time, it made sense. WCW was struggling beyond belief to regain momentum and suddenly you have the opportunity to sign that guy that was getting credited for the behind the scenes comeback by the WWE? How could you not want to sign him? I think part of the problem is that WCW didn't have quite the star attractions that the WWE had. They had stars, arguably more stars than the WWE, but how many matches featuring those talents actually felt truly significant? Gun to my head, I don't know how good I'd do if I had to name the WCW PPV main events throughout the Monday Night Wars. Meanwhile, allow me one or two mistakes and I'm sure I could nail the WWE PPV main events during that time period. Russo tried replicating the success he had in the WWE, but the differences between the two companies were far too great.

    Kellner's final decision to yank the show from Turner networks
    As I said, it's hard to deny this as being the biggest reason why WCW ended. For years, WCW was at the mercy of a Turner company that wasn't impressed with their numbers and as Ted Turner lost more and more power, the likelihood of WCW going under became too great. This is the same company that came close to going under in late 1993 due to the Turner company believing that the company wasn't worth the trouble.

    Bischoff's arrogant attitude and then having no idea what to do once things started going south on him
    To defend Bischoff, why should he have been good? He was thrust into the position with limited experience, forced to deal with so many headaches and being over his head, and yet still managed to help WCW have a couple years of making money. When you consider how many people were brought into power over the course of those 12+ years and how all of them were considered a quick failure, Bischoff at least found some success. Sure, he only had a couple of good ideas, but he made money.

    The piss poor TV the last two years


    Anyone who reads my WCW reviews after Hogan came into town knows how negative I feel about the company in those years. The TV became piss poor LONG before the final two years. Whenever I discuss peak quality periods of WCW, I'm never talking about after Hogan's arrival. The nWo as a whole was just brutally awful.

    So yes, the final two years were piss poor (Although thinks became pretty decent in Feb-March 2001), but so were the previous few years. The only difference is that everything became an even bigger mess nearer the end.

    Failing to protect Goldberg properly after he won the belt
    That's WCW for you. Spend zero time building up to a Hogan/Goldberg match, have Goldberg win in a big moment, have him continue a feud against a nWo midcarder while Hogan remained the top guy, and naturally never have a PPV rematch. It's WCW. They sucked. Goldberg's success wasn't because of the booking, it was a success in spite of the booking.

    Some people were talking about Harley. Here's a Harley classic interview. Let's see John Cena do this!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB0gt12NXp0
    That's what wrestling is lacking these days - consequences. Race feels as if he was cheated out of the CWA Title match at the Mid-South Coliseum and he's pissed as a result. Whenever the topic of consequences comes up, I always think back to the night after WM 27. Cena was just fucked over by the Rock in a World Title match in the main event of Wrestlemania and what happens? He comes out with a big smile and joking around. For a main event level talent, Cena was one of the worst at having consequences and ramifications mean something. That may not even be his fault though. It may be McMahon's orders to have him behave a certain way, but it really sucks in comparison to how Race acted in the above promo, Hulk Hogan's tear filled interview after The Main Event 1, or some of Randy Savage's reactions to being screwed over.

    Obviously, you don't need to punch the fuck out of yourself, but just find a way to get across the emotion that what happened to you matters and if that emotion is there, it's going to cause the fans to care too. One of my favorite interviews of all time I think fits that description.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBtd1w4uSVQ?t=2m1s
    (Starts at 2 min)

    Goosebumps, man, goosebumps. That is some serious emotion after a man feels as if he was wronged. I don't know how a fan can not watch that promo and not instantly want to watch Savage get his hands on Roberts again.

  3. #2563
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Do you think Tazz could have been a success in WWF based off when he joined the company and who was in the midcard around that time, or was he doomed to flounder?

    The way I've always seen it is that WWE were interested in using him as a legit wrestler right up until they got the Radicalz, after which they saw no need for Tazz. Do you agree with that stance?

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Do you think Tazz could have been a success in WWF based off when he joined the company and who was in the midcard around that time, or was he doomed to flounder?

    The way I've always seen it is that WWE were interested in using him as a legit wrestler right up until they got the Radicalz, after which they saw no need for Tazz. Do you agree with that stance?
    I do not agree.

    For one, I think people (And myself included at times) give the Radicalz too much credit. Looking at the four guys, Malenko didn't do anything, Saturn barely did anything, and it took a bit of time for Guerrero to really get going due to the injury and needing to connect with his new partnership with Chyna. The only member of the Radicalz that made a difference right away was Benoit. The others were mostly just affecting the lowcard scene.

    For Tazz's failure, I think it's several things, but mostly just tied to timing or poor luck. The first key event is the Wrestlemania 2000 main event change. Jericho being removed from the main event in my mind likely played a major part in Tazz not having anything to do, thus needing to be thrown in that Hardcore Title fiasco. As late as March 2000, Tazz was still interacting with Angle. Had Jericho still been in that main event, obviously Mick Foley wouldn't have been brought back to wrestle Kurt Angle at Wrestlemania. In addition, I can't imagine the WWE booking a heel Angle vs heel Benoit match at Wrestlemania 2000 either. I think it's a fair assumption that Angle vs Benoit vs Tazz would have happened instead. Tazz and Benoit even worked a Raw match in late February. Once Tazz was bumped from a meaningful Wrestlemania match, it stands to reason that the WWE briefly forgot about him, needing to focus on the important matches more. However, by mid April 2000, Tazz seemed to be back on track thanks to his ECW Title win. Tazz even managed to score a match against Triple H on Smackdown in April. It seemed like after a bit of a roller coaster first quarter with the WWE, Tazz was positioned to have a hot summer in 2000. But then the injury happened...

    Injuries suck, especially when you're not a top guy and your spot can easily vanish. Even though Tazz was only out of action for about 2 1/2 months, things had changed when he returned. Eddie Guerrero was now up and running as a hot midcarder. The WWE were fully invested in Rikishi being a somebody. Val Venis was enjoying a fresh push. Some guy named the Undertaker was back as well, meaning midcarders had to deal with an actual main eventer taking up a valuable space too. I assume that when Tazz returned, McMahon had moved on from having interest in him. After all, Tazz was some midget, it couldn't have been difficult for a size guy like McMahon to lose focus. From that point on, Tazz struggled to regain the spotlight thanks to every quarter several new midcarders coming into the company, whether it's Regal and Raven in the fall of 2000, Spike and Rhyno around Wrestlemania 17, or all of the WCW talent post-Wrestlemania.

    Keep Jericho in the main event of Wrestlemania 2000 and have Tazz avoid the May 2000 injury and things would have been different for Tazz.

  5. #2565
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Maybe saying the inclusion of the Radicalz killed Tazz was a bit extreme, but certainly Benoit's presence must have had an affect when Benoit was basically a much better version of Tazz in general. Though the two of them probably could have had a really fun midcard feud in 2000 too, now that I think about it.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Maybe saying the inclusion of the Radicalz killed Tazz was a bit extreme, but certainly Benoit's presence must have had an affect when Benoit was basically a much better version of Tazz in general. Though the two of them probably could have had a really fun midcard feud in 2000 too, now that I think about it.
    Having a great midcard talent like Benoit certainly didn't help, but I don't think you can say that Benoit was the clear problem, especially pre-injury Tazz. They weren't even the same alignment. You could argue that having another notable midcard heel could have been good for Tazz as other babyface midcarders like Jericho, Rikishi, or even Kane needed midcard heels to feud with. Again, I go back to Jericho playing the biggest role in keeping Tazz from receiving a proper push. Jericho was meant to be a midcard heel. He was too over though and the WWE were forced to turn him face just about the time that Tazz popped up on WWE TV. Look at what was the first thing Jericho did as a babyface in the WWE - he stole Tazz's first rival and scored two straight PPV matches with Angle.

    I do agree that a Benoit/Tazz feud in 2000 could have been good. Although, I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice any Benoit PPV matches with his opponents until at least the end of 2000 when Benoit as wasted in two PPV matches with Billy Gunn. IIRC, I believe when I rebooked Wrestlemania 2000, I may have had Benoit/Tazz and Angle/Jericho as matches instead.

  7. #2567
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Due to your comments in Shock's thread amongst others, have you ever thought of doing a countdown threat?

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Watching a little mid-2000's WWE, so here's a twofold request.

    1. Match listing for a strictly American Bad-Ass Taker DVD?

    2. What is Eugene's best match?



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  9. #2569
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
    Due to your comments in Shock's thread amongst others, have you ever thought of doing a countdown threat?
    Would that be a threat of doing a countdown or a countdown of my favorite threats?

    Spoiler:

    I tend to focus on just covering full shows rather than individual matches. If I were to ever do a countdown, it would be reviewing the top 40 WCCW matches pack that I downloaded from XWT Classics ages ago. Considering how little WCCW I've reviewed, it'd be covering a lot of matches for the first time. Hmm, if I were to do that and review one match a day, that would give me something to do to pass the time with it wrapping up just in time for Fright Fest.


    Quote Originally Posted by Silk View Post
    Watching a little mid-2000's WWE, so here's a twofold request.

    1. Match listing for a strictly American Bad-Ass Taker DVD?
    Lets say 7-8 matches per DVD, meaning I'll need to find 21-24 ones. Okay.

    The Undertaker vs Shane McMahon
    Smackdown - May 25, 2000
    (Taker's first match as the American Bad Ass)

    The Undertaker vs Edge
    Smackdown - June 29, 2000

    The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (c)
    WWE World Title
    Survivor Series 2000

    The Undertaker vs Chris Benoit
    Rebellion 2000

    The Brothers of Destruction vs Rikishi and Haku
    First Blood Match
    Smackdown - February 1, 2001

    The Undertaker vs Triple H
    Wrestlemania 17

    The Brothers of Destruction vs Edge and Christian (c)
    WWE Tag Titles
    Smackdown - April 19, 2001

    The Brothers of Destruction (c) vs Steve Austin (c) and Triple H (c)
    WWE World, IC, and Tag Titles
    Backlash 2001

    The Undertaker vs DDP
    Street Fight
    Raw - July 9, 2001

    The Brothers of Destruction (c) vs DDP/Kanyon (c)
    WCW/WWE Tag Titles
    Steel Cage Match
    Summerslam 2001

    The Undertaker vs Rob Van Dam (c)
    WWE Hardcore Title
    Vengeance 2001

    The Undertaker (c) vs Maven
    WWE Hardcore Title
    February 7, 2002

    The Undertaker vs Ric Flair
    Wrestlemania 18

    The Undertaker vs Hulk Hogan (c)
    WWE Undisputed Title
    Judgment Day 2002

    The Undertaker (c) vs Jeff Hardy
    WWE Undisputed Title
    Ladder Match
    Raw - July 1, 2002

    The Undertaker (c) vs Kurt Angle
    WWE Undisputed Title
    Smackdown - July 4, 2002

    The Undertaker vs Matt Hardy
    Falls Count Anywhere
    Smackdown - October 3, 2002

    The Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar (c)
    WWE World Title
    Hell in a Cell Match
    No Mercy 2002

    The Undertaker vs The Big Show and A-Train
    Wrestlemania 19

    The Undertaker vs Rey Mysterio
    #1 Contender's Tournament - Quarter-Finals
    Smackdown - April 3, 2003

    The Undertaker vs John Cena
    Vengeance 2003

    The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (c)
    WWE World Title
    Smackdown - September 4, 2003

    The Undertaker and Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar and John Cena
    Smackdown - October 2, 2003

    The Undertaker vs Mr. McMahon
    Buried Alive Match
    Survivor Series 2003
    (Taker's final match as the American Bad Ass)
    ---

    I think that mostly covers everything of significance for Taker's run as the American Bad Ass with a few random matches thrown in too.

    2. What is Eugene's best match?
    Although Eugene was good in what he set out to be, his matches aren't exactly considered stand out bouts. There's not much to choose from to the point where I had to throw on his match against Chris Benoit prior to answering this to see if that match could possibly be good. Although it's below average for Benoit in 2004, it's a pretty good Raw match. Thanks to Benoit going into the match at less than 100%, Eugene was able to believably get in a lot of offense. Although he did do some of his wacky antics, Eugene wrestled a mostly serious match. It was probably the closest we saw Eugene as a "Normal" wrestler. It made me wish I had watched some of his OVW matches where he was supposedly quite good. So yeah, I'll go with the Benoit/Eugene match from the night after Vengeance 2004. A solid *** match.

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