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Thread: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

  1. #141
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    Captains Cabin Hits and Misses: WWE RAW 21/11/11

    Hello! My Broadband issues seem to have stopped being SO bad, and with that...

    Hits:

    Opening Promo - I thought it was good. Not mindblowing, but I wouldn't say it disrupted the show and it added to this whole Punk/Laurinaitis issue which is turning into a kind of Austin/McMahon issue. Personally I think it's enjoyable enough, and I despise Laurinaitis so he does he work as a heel successfully. And Punk is defining anti-authority so clearly this dynamic works and the heat is generating Punk more momentum from fans. Overall good segment and it's leading somewhere.

    Pushing a WWE Title Match - Thank God. Saying the match will happen in a week and then hyping it is exactly what you do to get ratings. You don't announce it at the start of the show and put it at the top of the second hour. Good job WWE.

    Del Rio looking strong: Okay I know he beat Ryder but hold up. Ryder got some good offense in, was memorable in almost pinning Del Rio a couple of times and got a rub off fighting the former WWE Champion. Regardless of him not being the strongest champion. Del Rio showed excellent fire here and his arm breaker looked like a million bucks. Legit submission.

    Sheamus/Swagger - Good TV Match. Again both men looked solid and when WWE needs somebody to come in and be a good mid carder when Sheamus becomes Champ again or Ziggler is finally elevated, Swagger is ready for the upper midcard spot.

    Booker/Rhodes - Rhodes showed good fire, is in the shape of his life, cut a solid promo and then began a program with Booker T. Good person to see Booker have his final run with and for Rhodes to say he beat on his way to being a World Champion. Nice way to plant the seeds. All we need is Booker reacting on Twitter (But not go crazily overboard).

    Ziggler/Punk - Wow. Need I say more? Absolutely terrific and exactly why Punk should be WWE Champion for a year and stop this hot potato with the title and exactly why Ziggler needs to be a main eventer for years to come. Excellent match with high drama, top notch offense and just incredible TV performances. Both men look excellent coming off this and it's exactly what WWE needed. We now have a program to lead up to Wrestlemania with. Even if this was at Wrestlemania I would be excited because these two can offer much, much more.

    Big Show Promo - Short and to the point. Good enough, though not happy this is continuing.

    Barrett/Kofi and the Barrett/Orton rivalry - Good showing by both men. Kofi never really grabs me to be honest but this was solid. Barrett is carrying himself like a star at the moment and is someone SmackDown! can elevate into the main event picture like Ziggler on RAW. Orton plays his part well as the silent in-ring-does-the-talking kind of character. Interesting to see where this goes.

    Splitting up Miz/Truth - I know Truth was suspended but honestly there is no need for them to be together now. Miz could do with a solo run and some focus again as he's a media magnet for WWE and is good for interviews. He's also a big Merch seller so perhaps a face turn could make him a megastar in the company. Also Truth is solid in ring so their matches will be good upper midcard quality.

    It Begins: Now I guess we know why Twitter is being rubbed. It'll generate buzz but I don't know who it'll be. Most likely Undertaker though it's a different style promo to him, unless he returns as American Bad Ass.

    Misses:

    Nash promo - Poor delivery, he forgot some lines, stuttered and blabbed his way through it which made his intensity look odd. He's not settled on the mic really and this feud needs some HHH to be taken seriously.

    Cena - Thing is now he has nothing to do and that is scary. Unless he's placed into the Miz/Truth storyline and Truth takes the fall that's okay. I don't want to see Cena/Miz again as I don't think their chemistry is that good. I don't want him to destroy Ziggler/Del Rio/Miz but he has nothing to do. Saying that he'll probably end up calling out the Rock for a couple of weeks until someone interrupts him.

    Cole - He was really annoying this week, screaming at Booker for having water poured over him. Really took away from Booker/Cody being in the spotlight and made it all about him needing a towel.

    Laurinaitis' size - He really does tower over everyone. Not really good when he's staring down Punk and he looks a threat. I can get over it, I just think he's crazily tall and makes some of the smaller guys look...less tough. Punk included.

    Overall I really enjoyed the show. Storylines progressed nicely and there was a lot of positives. Now WWE needs to not mess it up next week, which they can easily do. Thanks for reading! Let me know if you agree/disagree and if you enjoyed it, rep would be lovely.

    Have a good week everybody!

  2. #142
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    Re: Captains Cabin Hits and Misses: WWE RAW 21/11/11

    If you get squashed in two-minutes and tap out clean in the middle, you're not getting any kind of rub, whether you're against the champion or not. Ryder gained absolutely nothing from it and all it really did was stifle his momentum when it served no purpose to do so.



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  3. #143
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    Re: Captains Cabin Hits and Misses: WWE RAW 21/11/11

    Wrong ^^.

    Giving a fight to the champion then being caught in a submission isn't going to hurt a guy who was until recently not even on TV.
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    Spoiler:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    I stopped reading when it became clear it was the same butthurt smarkf*g "real wrasslin'" crybaby rant on every youtube vid featuring Cena.



    Quote Originally Posted by Buff Bagwell on John Cena
    But I think he's bigger than Buff Bagwell. I really do.
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  4. #144
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    Re: Captains Cabin Hits and Misses: WWE RAW 21/11/11

    Watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect Film.

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    Re: Captains Cabin Hits and Misses: WWE RAW 21/11/11

    Exactly, the mentality he jobbed is odd, because it went like...5 minutes with Del Rio largely playing to Ryder's offense before Del Rio went mad and won.

  6. #146
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    Re: Captains Cabin Hits and Misses: WWE RAW 21/11/11

    I've never understood the mentality that losing a match to a top guy hurts you. Firstly not many fans will remember it in a few weeks
    Sure you do, it's really easy to make someone look like ****. Illogical booking and creative for the most part.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    Hardly illogical. Ryder hasn't looked strong against anybody clean since he was with Edge. This way he is in the ring with one of the top company wrestlers, gets his signature offense in and gets a few near falls. Realistically Ryder hasn't looked like a future US Champ...ever. They won't give him Ziggler any time soon one, because Ziggler is on fire and two, Ryder isn't seen as strong enough to win a title clean.

  8. #148
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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Aspergers View Post
    Hardly illogical. Ryder hasn't looked strong against anybody clean since he was with Edge. This way he is in the ring with one of the top company wrestlers, gets his signature offense in and gets a few near falls. Realistically Ryder hasn't looked like a future US Champ...ever. They won't give him Ziggler any time soon one, because Ziggler is on fire and two, Ryder isn't seen as strong enough to win a title clean.
    I wasn't talking about anybody in specific, it was a general statement. The WWE and WCW both have a history of doing illogical ****.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    Eh, I wouldn't go TOO far. He looks like a mid card threat now, but that's it.
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    Spoiler:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    I stopped reading when it became clear it was the same butthurt smarkf*g "real wrasslin'" crybaby rant on every youtube vid featuring Cena.



    Quote Originally Posted by Buff Bagwell on John Cena
    But I think he's bigger than Buff Bagwell. I really do.
    [02:00 AM] Dakstang : girls ain't dudes


  10. #150
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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    Ryder was dominated in a 2:25 match that saw him tap clean in the middle. Yeah, it's weird that people call that being jobbed out...

    It didn't help him in the slightest and there were plenty of other talents they could have put in the role rather than a guy who is crazy hot to a certain degree and didn't need this treatment. You want to elevate a guy in losing to the champion you don't do it by having him lose in 2:25 where you don't have time to get anything over before you have to rush to the finish.You give the match time to where the midcard guy gets enough sustained offense for the fans to seriously accept that he can provide a real challenger to the champion before he loses. It's a story that has been told countless times in wrestling and got over great but it's not one that can be told with any effectiveness in 2:25.



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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    That's ridiculous because the idea isn't he's even with the main eventer, but just BEING competitive with the main eventer for any period of time increases his stock, which wasn't high to begin with, and even if you don't think it does, thinking it slows any momentum is absolutely preposterous.
    I solemnly swear I am up to no good


    Spoiler:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    I stopped reading when it became clear it was the same butthurt smarkf*g "real wrasslin'" crybaby rant on every youtube vid featuring Cena.



    Quote Originally Posted by Buff Bagwell on John Cena
    But I think he's bigger than Buff Bagwell. I really do.
    [02:00 AM] Dakstang : girls ain't dudes


  12. #152
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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    Watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect Film.

  13. #153
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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Rage View Post
    It might be a decent point if he was getting some monster push, but he's not. He's very over, but he's an underdog and is still establishing himself in the midcard. Not being able to hang with a pissed off main eventer for more than a few minutes is not going to hurt him whatsoever. If a loss like that killed Ryder's momentum, then nobody would ever keep their momentum without some huge winning streak.

    And again, Del Rio has one of the most credible submission finishers I can remember and tapping to it doesn't harm anybody, especially not a guy who has only recently become a regular on RAW.
    That is exactly how I see it, TR.

    If Ryder just came in and beat ADR, it would look pretty silly. He's not Goldberg. If they want to ruin Ryder, push him too fast. Have the kid struggle (he's not going to lose his fans anytime soon), improve on screen, then get a United States title win (and this can be done by TLC). THEN after he establishes himself as a top mid-card guy and US champ, test him in the main event. Don't feed him to somebody, but put him there to see if it's the right time. If not, keep him in the mid-card. Listen to the crowd, but use a good booker's head about it.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Rage View Post
    Del Rio has one of the most credible submission finishers I can remember and tapping to it doesn't harm anybody, especially not a guy who has only recently become a regular on RAW.
    I have no problem with Ryder losing to Del Rio. I have no problem having Ryder submit to Del Rio. My only problem is the execution. Ryder should have waited longer to tap, instead he tapped right away (way too fast). He should have been allowed to show toughness. He should have held off from tapping out at least a few more seconds. They should have had him show some fight. that's my only problem. Had he waited 10 seconds to tap, I would have zero problem with the way it went down. Those seemingly little things mean a whole lot.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    Quote Originally Posted by Monsoon View Post
    I have no problem with Ryder losing to Del Rio. I have no problem having Ryder submit to Del Rio. My only problem is the execution. Ryder should have waited longer to tap, instead he tapped right away (way too fast). He should have been allowed to show toughness. He should have held off from tapping out at least a few more seconds. They should have had him show some fight. that's my only problem. Had he waited 10 seconds to tap, I would have zero problem with the way it went down. Those seemingly little things mean a whole lot.
    Exactly. I'm sure we haven't seen the rest of him, unless Vince is completely stupid. However, I'd like to see his in-ring work improve; he's got the rest. Also, I'd really like to see Ziggler push Ryder... to see if he can fully hang.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    I wouldn't have put Ryder in that spot to begin with. There was absolutely no reason to beat him so quickly and thoroughly. If he is getting the US title, at least have him lose a competitive match with a guy who can challenge for the title so the loss builds towards a future match and the booking follows a logical progression.



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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    The match was pretty even for the most part. It wasn't a squash. I do wish Ryder and Del Rio would have had the same type of match as Punk and Ziggler though. Like said though, my only problem with the Ryder/ADR match was Ryder tapping too quickly. Other than that, I have no problems with the way it went down. Yo can't win 'em all.

  18. #158
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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Discussion (21st November 2011)

    My prolem is just that the booking of Del Rio is so cyclic and predictable and they need to try something else with him. Every time they want him to look strong, they'll have him crush a midcarder in 3 minutes - I have no problem with that - but they've done it a few times over the past couple of months. Sometimes he'll get a one-up on a big face, usually via sneak attack, and most of the time the face will make a comeback and Ricardo takes a finisher. They've been doing this for a while now and they're not doing anything to make me care about him, even though I like that he's adding a bit more personality to his work (since NOC).

    I don't have a problem with them booking Del Rio to beat midcarders in 3 minutes and make him look dominant, what I do have a problem with is the lazy booking of the Del Rio character over recent months.

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