Dr. Giganto

FJM, of course, standing for firejoemorgan.com

Here's them ripping into some idiot talking about how pitch counts are stupid. The parts in bold are the writer's original words, the italics are FJM's responses:

One of life's great truisms is to finish what you start...This once applied to baseball, with precision, but now there's a new law: Just quit. Let somebody else finish the job. You did your part, now go be a cheerleader

It also stands to reason that pitchers probably have to work a little harder these days to be successful, what with all of the modern strength training, nutrition, drug abuse, tape-watching, analysis, and preparation that hitters have at their disposal. Albert Pujols (and others) routinely go into the clubhouse immediately after at bats to review the tape on how the pitcher got him out. If you could go back in time and take Nap Lajoie into a room after Rube Waddell K'd him on three pitches and show him a glowing box with a video replay of the at bat, he would call you a demon, slit your throat, tear out his eyes, and generally freak the fuck out. It's a different game, these days.



Lincecum, a freakish phenomenon who has not had a hint of arm trouble, was demonstrating why some sharp observers consider him the best pitcher in the National League. He had 13 strikeouts, no walks, radar readings of 98 mph and a 3-2 lead, striking out the side in the seventh inning and finishing it with his glorious, unhittable changeup.
Time out! That's it for Lincecum. He'd thrown 121 pitches in his last outing, and now he was at 111, and ... well, can't you see? It's right here on this piece of paper.


It's also right here in the part of my brain that creates and registers "common sense." This game is meaningless. Tim Lincecum is the future of your organization. Remove him from the game...it wouldn't really make sense to stretch him past 111 pitches in a meaningless game in late July when he'd thrown 126 pitches four days earlier.

As that one-run lead became a two-run loss, the fans couldn't believe it. They came for De Niro and got SpongeBob.


In this analogy:
Robert DeNiro = Good Actor
SpongeBob = ...Bad...Actor?



It would be misguided to blame Bochy, pitching coach Dave Righetti or general manager Brian Sabean. They only reflect a cautious stance taken throughout baseball, and if they have decided to protect Lincecum's arm - the better for him to dominate when the team becomes relevant - who's to argue? They've been consistent with their rules, involving all of the starters, so it would look silly for Lincecum to suddenly have a 150-pitch game.

Correct. Why did you write this article?


In a recent outing against Houston, CC Sabathia pitched his fifth complete game in the nine starts he'd made for Milwaukee. He threw 130 pitches, raising a torrent of alarmist nonsense. Fortunately, manager Ned Yost didn't join in the geeks' pencil party. What Sabathia has done for the Brewers is a story, something exceptional. It's called rising above the rest - the very essence of sports. Yost had a great answer, too, when asked if Sabathia threw too many pitches. "Never once did he labor," he said.

It has not occurred to Mr. Jenkins, apparently, that CC is 99% likely to leave the team after this season. Which means: the Brewers could not give less of two shits [sic] how beat up he gets. They are driving for the playoffs. If CC blows his arm out in June of next year, that's Hank Steinbrenner's problem. (Note from Dr. G: Fuck!)



Don't be so quick to blame then-Giants manager Felipe Alou of ruining an arm when Jason Schmidt crafted a one-hit, 144-pitch shutout at Wrigley Field ("I'd do it all over again," Schmidt recently said. "There's nothing like knowing the game is in your control.")

<TABLE class=tablehead style="WIDTH: 601px; HEIGHT: 761px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=oddrow><TD>July 16, 2008</TD><TD>Recalled from minors rehab </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>June 28, 2008</TD><TD>Sent to minors for rehabilitation </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>June 01, 2008</TD><TD>Recalled from minors rehab </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>May 20, 2008</TD><TD>Transferred to 60-day DL </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>May 11, 2008</TD><TD>Sent to minors for rehabilitation </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>March 30, 2008</TD><TD>Placed on 15-day DL (Recovery from right shoulder surgery)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>November 01, 2007</TD><TD>Removed from 60-day DL </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>August 13, 2007</TD><TD>Transferred to 60-day DL </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>June 18, 2007</TD><TD>Placed on 15-day DL (Right shoulder surgery - out for season)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>June 05, 2007</TD><TD>Removed from 15-day DL </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>May 30, 2007</TD><TD>Sent to minors for rehabilitation </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>April 17, 2007</TD><TD>Placed on 15-day DL (Right bursa sac inflammation)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>May 24, 2005</TD><TD>Removed from 15-day DL </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>May 10, 2005</TD><TD>Placed on 15-day DL (Strained right shoulder)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>April 16, 2004</TD><TD>Recalled from minors rehab </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>April 16, 2004</TD><TD>Removed from 15-day DL </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>April 10, 2004</TD><TD>Sent to minors for rehabilitation </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>April 03, 2004</TD><TD>Placed on 15-day DL (Right shoulder stiffness)</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>April 24, 2002</TD><TD>Recalled from minors rehab </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>April 13, 2002</TD><TD>Sent to minors for rehabilitation </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>May 11, 2001</TD><TD>Recalled from minors rehab </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>April 30, 2001</TD><TD>Sent to minors for rehabilitation </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>April 20, 2001</TD><TD>Recalled from minors rehab </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>April 13, 2001</TD><TD>Sent to minors for rehabilitation </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>September 01, 2000</TD><TD>Transferred to 60-day DL </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>August 23, 2000</TD><TD>Recalled from minors rehab </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>July 29, 2000</TD><TD>Sent to minors for rehabilitation </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>August 30, 1996</TD><TD>Recalled from minors rehab </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>August 11, 1996</TD><TD>Sent to minors for rehabilitation </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Not that many games have been under his control, really. What with all the injuries.

Fernando Valenzuela, with the 1986 Dodgers, was the last pitcher to have at least 20 complete games in a season. This century, no pitcher in either league has reached 10.

Then Fernando Valenzuela went on to pitch 10 more years of awesome baseball and got elected to the Hall of Fame with 350 wins.

Oh no wait -- that's not what happened.
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, he threw like 1550 innings before the age of 25, had that last good year in 1986, then the next year his WHIP shot up to 1.5 and he never had a good season again due to -- in no small part -- a lot of injuries.

The Giants' Juan Marichal had 30 in 1968, a season dominated by pitching statistics, but how about Ted Lyons with the 1930 White Sox? That was a hitters' year of almost comical proportions. The Yankees hit a collective .309, the National League hit .303, and eight batters hit .370 or better, yet Lyons had 29 complete games, and the co-leaders in the National League had 22.

Yeah, how about Ted Lyons and those 1930 numbers? Crazy. 297 IP. But more to the point, how about
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that made it impossible for him to throw his cut fastball anymore? And how about the fact that he never pitched anywhere close to that number of innings again? And how about the fact that he's in the HOF even though his 1.348 career
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is only slightly worse than Bronson Arroyo's? It was a different game, man.

Also, do you do any research? I have no idea if Ted Lyon's arm injury was due to the 297 innings he had thrown the year before. For all I know he injured his arm waving a sign of support for Herbert Hoover, who was President in 1930, because that's how fucking long ago 1930 is. But why use Fernando and Lyons, two guys who got badly arm-injured the very next year you cite for each of them, to try to prove your point? That's crazy.

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Guardian Devil

LOL wow, comparing apples to oranges really.

Great read Giganto.

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Dr. Giganto

The guys who write that site are fucking awesome. The main writer "Ken Tremendous" is actually the lead writer for The Office (US version), so it makes sense that the site is so funny and so well-written

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Guardian Devil

Really? That's good shit, I did not know that.

I'm going to have to start reading stuff from that site more often, the Office kicks a bunch of ass.

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chops

Good stuff! Although I think that a pitch count can be over rated. Why would'nt warm up throws at 100% count twoards the pitch count then? And if a pitcher took a bit longer between pitches to let his arm recoup, should'nt he be able to throw more pitches.

Dr. Giganto

There's actually another part that I cut out (the whole thing was VERY long) where the article talks about factors such as that, and the guy from FJM talks about how managers, even those who believe in pitch counts, take factors like that into account, and that they don't just have a "magic number" that they use to know when to pull a guy

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