fouling to win the game

Dr. Giganto

This debate reminds me of something I saw a few years ago on ESPN Classic. It was an NBA Finals game in the late 70's, I think it was Celtics vs. Suns. The teams went to triple OT, and at the end of one of the OTs, the following happened:

The Celtics hit a shot to put them up 1. The Boston Garden timekeeper, long notorious for being slow to stop the clock when the Celtics were winning, let the clock continue to run despite the fact that there were clearly 1 or 2 seconds left in the game. Thinking the game was over, fans stormed onto the court and the Celtics players celebrated and ran back to their locker room.

During all this chaos, the referees were trying to get people off the court, explaining that there was 1 second left in the game. Finally, they got the court cleared, and they had to go back intot he locker rooms and get the teams to come back out. There was 1 second left on the clock.

So, the Suns had the ball and had to go the entire length of the court and throw up a prayer of a shot. However, the Suns coach realized a loophole in the playbook. If you had the ball and committed a technical foul, you got to inbound the ball at halfcourt. So, the Suns, knowing they had no timeouts, tried to call a timeout to purposely give themselves a technical foul. The Celtics hit the free throw to put them up by 2, but the Suns got to inbound the ball at midcourt.

They pass it in, a player for the Suns catches it, turns around and quickly throws up a prayer of shot that it such a high arc shot it looks like it's going to hit the roof of the Boston Garden...

...And it goes in.

I forgot who won the game (I think it ended up being the Celtics), but it was one of the craziest games I've ever seen.

After that year, they changed the rule about inbounding from halfcourt after a technical foul.

Dr. Giganto

Here's a good summary of the game, from Wikipedia:

Game 5 was a triple-overtime classic that is considered by many to be the greatest game in NBA history. With the series tied 2-2, Boston took a huge lead at Boston Garden but could not hold it. The game was enhanced by several controversies, including Boston's Paul Silas trying to call a timeout at the end of regulation that Boston did not have (with the officials simply ignoring him lest the game be decided upon a technical foul shot), but eventually went to Boston in three overtimes, 128-126. Phoenix, in tying the game, overcame a 22-point deficit.

The most notable portion of the game was the final 20 seconds of the second overtime. Boston led at that point 109-106 (with the three-point basket not yet in existence). Phoenix had possession of the ball. In an amazing and frantic sequence, the following transpired:

(a) The Suns' Dick Van Arsdale hit a short jumper from the corner, cutting the gap to 109-108,

(b) the Celtics inbounded the ball to John Havlicek, but the Suns' Paul Westphal came from seemingly out of nowhere to knock the ball out of Havlicek's hands. As his momentum was carrying him out of bounds, Westphal saved the ball to Van Arsdale, who passed it to Curtis Perry. Perry took an 18-footer from the left wing and missed.

(c) Havlicek went after the rebound on the Perry miss, but couldn't get a grip on it and ended up tapping the ball back to Perry on the left baseline.

(d) Perry then let fly from 15 feet and made the shot to put the Suns ahead.

Phoenix suddenly led, 110-109, with just six seconds left, and the team looked poised to win their third straight game and grab a 3-to-2 edge in the series. Not to be outdone, John Havlicek (already of "Havlicek Stole the Ball" fame) responded with a drive and a leaning one-hander in traffic that put Boston in front 111-110 as the horn sounded. The fans then poured onto the court to celebrate Boston's victory. The Celtics returned to their locker room. But, as CBS analyst Rick Barry loudly pointed out, the ball went through the hoop with two seconds left and the clock should have been stopped. The officials apparently agreed with Barry and ordered the Celtics back onto the floor. The game was not over.

During the ensuing pandemonium, a fan attacked referee Richie Powers and other fans turned over one of the scorer's tables. After clearing the court (the fan who attacked Powers was arrested) and getting the Celtics back on the floor, the officials put one second back on the clock. Still, Phoenix's chances seemed slim, as they had the ball under their own basket with a second left. Then Paul Westphal of the Suns made a heady play, signaling for a time out that the Suns did not have. Although this resulted in a technical foul being called on Westphal, the play was critical for Phoenix, because the rules at the time gave Phoenix the same advantage (save for the technical foul shot) that they would have had with timeouts remaining to use; namely, possession of the ball at half court. Boston's Jo Jo White made the technical free throw, increasing Boston's lead to 112-110. Then, Phoenix's Garfield Heard took the inbounds pass from Perry and made a buzzer-beating shot (a turn-around jumper at the top of the key) for the Suns that tied the score yet again, 112-112.

Boston eventually took a six-point lead, 128-122, late in the third overtime. Westphal scored the next four points for Phoenix, cutting the gap to 128-126, but could not get the ball again (with Westphal nearly stealing a pass near half court as the third overtime wound down).

Boston then won Game 6 and took their 13th championship. Jo Jo White was named the Finals Most Valuable Player.

[edit] Game 5 trivia

• The Celtics led by 22 points (42-20) after the first quarter.

• Dave Cowens, Charlie Scott, and Paul Silas all fouled out (were disqualified due to six personal fouls) for the Celtics, and Alvan Adams and Dennis Awtrey both fouled out for the Suns. Silas picked up his fifth foul late in the fourth quarter, but played the entire remainder, including all three overtime periods before fouling out late in the third.

• The Suns had the lead in the game on only three occasions (twice in the second overtime) and never by more than 1 point. They led 95-94 late in the fourth, and 106-105 and 110-109 in the 2nd overtime.

• Glenn McDonald, a little-used Celtic reserve player, scored eight points in the game, all in overtime, including six in the 3rd overtime.

• Finals MVP Jo Jo White led all scorers with 33 points.

• Future Hall of Fame coach Pat Riley was a reserve on the Suns' bench, but never got in the game.

• Eight players in this game would go on to be NBA head coaches: Pat Riley, Don Nelson, Dave Cowens, Paul Silas, Paul Westphal, Garfield Heard, Dick Van Arsdale, and John Wetzel.

Twist of lEMOn

Not really, I think the point chops is trying to make is that if you give the team the option to just inbound rather then shot free throws after everyfoul. At somepoint they can just dribble out the clock because lets be honest, if your just fouling-inbound-repeat all your doing is milking the clock, your never getting the ball back. Unless the coach for the other team is a extreme douche, i think hed get the point.

Blitzkrieg

Chops, if a player in football commits a penalty at the end of the game.. there's still no way they are getting the ball back, so I don't see what point you're trying to make. Basketball cannot be changed.. they have to go possession by possession, changing the format in the final two minutes wouldn't work at all..

Besides, for all of you who think it's boring to watch foul after foul, I think it's boring to watch a team sit on the ball for 35 seconds..

Kansas deserved to win the game. They outplayed Memphis in the first half, they outplayed Memphis in overtime. Dorsey fouled out for Memphis which was his own damn fault and a horrible play.. and Rose and CDR couldn't get the job done at the line or in overtime.

I don't care if they were in shock going into overtime.. there was still a game to be played. I've seen plenty of teams blow a huge lead at the end of the game and still win it in overtime.. Memphis simply didn't have enough heart to pull through.

Dr. Giganto

yeah, but they're getting virtually unlimited chances to steal the inbounds pass. So the coach would obviously keep fouling.

Blitzkrieg

This argument is no different than the intentional walk in baseball. It's not cheap.. it's strategy and it's why in baseball, you need hitters to protect your star (i.e. Manny behind Papi) and in basketball you NEED to be able to make a free throw. Kansas made theirs, Memphis did not.

Freak, you mentioned the pressure of hitting a free throw at the end of the game, and it's true.. and again, Kansas made theirs.

And Tom, that kind of goes back to my argument in playoff games. I always maintain that it's harder to be a star in the playoffs in baseball because of the added pressure and the fact that you are only facing good pitching for the most part.. and I think in football, leading a team to victory in the final two minutes of the Super Bowl is not the same as leading a team to victory in September...or the kicking game, Adam Venitieri, for example.

Dr. Giganto

Kansas was up by 5 at halftime. The game was close throughout the first half. Kansas didnt dominate them in the first half, so what does the first half have to do with it? In fact, Memphis either led or was tied for the first 9 minutes of the game

You're 100% correct. I texted my friend during the game saying "Dorsey complains on every play. He'll fit perfectly in the NBA". You could see that everytime he didnt get a call, or a call went against him, on the next two or three possessions he sulked and loafed around the court.

By the way, I mentioned how Memphis missed Dorsey in OT, here are Kansas' scoring plays in OT:

65-63

KS

Brandon Rush made Layup

67-63

KS

Darrell Arthur made Slam Dunk

69-63

KS

Darnell Jackson made Finger-roll Layup

71-65

KS

Brandon Rush made Layup

And then 4 free throws in the final 45 seconds. They obviously missed Dorsey's presence inside

Captain Planet

WC's Resident Samoan

I think that an intentional foul should result in the team getting the ball back >_>

Dr. Giganto

By the letter of the law, they should.

But however long ago it was, referees decided to call it the way they do at the end of games

Blitzkrieg

It would never work.. An intentional foul is when a guy isn't going for the ball. They can claim that their fouls weren't intentional because they were swiping at the ball and hitting arm.. they weren't tugging on the back of a jersey.

If the refs started calling intentional fouls when someone is swiping at the ball, it'd ruin the game entirely and make defense non-existent. they're better off calling it how they do.