Report: Favre Will Retire

Suntan Superman

WC's Resident Samoan

The Favre showing up is a potshot, I admit it.

While we're talking about championships, shouldn't Otto Graham be mentioned as one of the best? He has the most championships of any QB.

Also, it takes more than ONE player to win games. I think it's unfair to blame some of the Packers shortcomings on Favre. Things such as defensive play are completely out of his control! As far as in my book he's Top 5. And if anyone wants to put him at #1, I'd have a hard time debating that he isn't.



And what the hell are we supposed to do? Bow to you and say your opinion is right and ours isn't?
No shit we're going to defend what we believe, aren't you doing the same goddamn thing?

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

I haven't stated much of anything but facts. I recognized how stacked Starr's teams were, and I brought up some of Favre's lackluster playoff performances. I also said how I believed he was better than Elway and Marino and gave reasons but I guess you just didn't bother to read any of that did you? No, of course not. I'm supposedly hating on Favre now because I don't think he's top 5 of all-time.

I understand he's a likable guy, I love the guy.. I brought up the topic of best ever because I've seen a lot of people debating that subject on tv and at school.

Then Freak came to defend Favre.. no problem, I understand he's a Packer fan and wanted to know where I was coming from and then Tom gave us this percentage of INT's per pass attempts, but.. I never heard of Starr even losing a game in the playoffs. Maybe he did, but it wasn't often.. The guy basically does not have a blemish on his record.

Graham didn't play in what most consider the modern era of pro football or maybe I would have included him.

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

..And why am I the only one stating why I believe which Quarterback is better? Give me a reason or a few reasons why Favre is better than Starr than if you disagree with me. Yes, I'm a big believer in championships and outstanding playoff performances over regular season stats.

If we didn't judge sports on "moments" than Derek Jeter would be Edgar Renteria or Nomar Garciaparra.

Suntan Superman

WC's Resident Samoan

When did I EVER say you were hating on Favre. I have NEVER stated you were hating on Favre. I was DEFENDING Favre. You in fact just yourself that Starr was on stacked teams, so wouldn't that put him at an overall advantage when it comes to winning? It's really hard to base whether he's the greatest purely off of wins. Again Favre can't control every aspect of a game. You said you brought up facts. Well here are some more facts. Passing Yards: 61,655; Passing TDs: 442; 61% Completion rate. I think those are some pretty damn good facts. And I think all of those should factor into an argument over who is the best. Should they not?

Also I think the fact that they only played ONE playoff game during the time when Starr was hot, benefited him when it came to winning them. The less chances you have to lose, the less you're going to lose. That also being said, Starr only lost one playoff game out of 10.

When it comes to winning alone even, From 1957-1969 during the time in which Bart Starr was the primary QB for the Packers they had 3 losing seasons, from 1992-2008 during the time in which Favre was the only starter, the Packers have had ONE losing season. I think that speaks volumes about how good of a player that Favre was.

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

I'm not denying Favre's greatness, I've done nothing but praise him. No, I don't believe regular season stats should be the only basis on who is a better Quarterback because at the end of the day, I want to win games, championships.. In my opinion, playoff wins and losses and how you play in those games are the most important stat when it comes to judging a QB.

Starr's teams were stacked, but did he win the games? Yes. Did he cost them playoff games? No. To win championships, you have to get there..

You argue that they played less playoff games, that also means that less teams made the playoffs. Favre, in theory, has had more opportunities to win championships because you aren't eliminated with a 9-7 or 10-6 record in most seasons. You get that second chance.

As for the regular season stats you brought up, lets remember that when Starr was playing they only had 12 and 14 game seasons and the rules were much different. Defensive backs were allowed to do a lot more things to cover receivers than they are now.

5 NFL Championships for Starr including two Super Bowls. All those years Favre made the playoffs, he has the single championship.

WackoJako

I came into this thread to comment on Favre's career. I leave saying how the fuck can somebody say Staubach is better then Elway?

Suntan Superman

WC's Resident Samoan

If the game was different, how can you fairly compare the two then? And it still takes more than one person to win a championship. If you're a tremendous player but get stuck on a terrible team, how do you expect them to carry a team? Especially in football when you have an entirely different team on the field for another half of the game. It's so hard to fairly compare championships because there are millions of factors that go into championships. I suppose Mike Lowell is a better 3B than Alex Rodriguez because he has more championships right?

Also what good are playoff stats if you don't have a good enough regular season to get there?

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

No, Lowell is not better.. A-Rod dwarfs him in every statistical category and is a prominent figure on a good team while Lowell is a solid player on a great team. Two totally different things.

Suntan Superman

WC's Resident Samoan

I'm curious, just curious, have you seen a lot of old Bart Starr? I can't say that I have, but how do we know it was all him that made the Packers great? I mean certainly he's in the Hall of Fame, that means he was good. But how good? For all we know he could've been saved by receivers many many times.

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

Yes, I have seen him on ESPN Classic and the NFL Network, and I've seen some of his more memorable highlights in crucial situations. Regardless, I'm not alone in my opinions. NFL legends, experts, people that have watched the game for over 40 years, etc.. hold Starr in high praise. Of course, everyone loves Favre as well, as do I. So.. I really don't see what the huge issue here is with me ranking one hall of fame quarterback over another. I've given my reasons, I've back my opinions with facts, and my opinion is not going to be changed by you, anyone else on this forum, or anyone on ESPN whom by the way, a lot are caught up in a Favre craze and not looking at this debate in a logical manner. Same thing happens though whenever a great great and likable player retires. When Shaq retires they'll all go on tv praising him to no end, calling him the best ever, and a year later they'll be back to ranking him behind Wilt, Kareem, and Russell.