This is a discussion on What went wrong with Michael Vick? within the North American Sports forums, part of the Sports Forums category; I'm not talking about the dogfighting stuff, but his on-field performance.
When he first came into the league, people thought ...
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I'm not talking about the dogfighting stuff, but his on-field performance.
When he first came into the league, people thought he was going to revolutionize the QB position, and that idea was solidifed when he become the only visiting QB to win a playoff game in Lambeau Field, despite playing his home games in a dome. But after making the NFC championship game a few years ago, the general consensus has been that Vick is a below-average QB. So, what do you think went wrong. I've identified a few potential reasons:
1. He was never that good...his team's previous success was more a refection of the talent around him
2. He's still good, but the team around him sucks
3. Unimaginative coaches couldn't figure out a way to utilize his talents.
4. Other teams figured out how to contain him.
5. He bought into his own hype and started half-assing his preparation
6. The broken ankle a few years fucked with his mental state
7. The Falcons were just unlucky...they're actually better than their 15-17 performance of the last few years
So, what do you guys think happened?
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That broken leg would kill anyone I think. Also I believe Jim Mora, Jr was not the best choice for a head coach to utilize Vicks talents. As is, Mora is a DEFENSIVE-minded coach. He had Greg Knapp try to do that, but they wanted to run a T-Style West Coast Offense, which focuses more on an established run and QB Accuracy. They got the first part right. So truthfully, I think it was more the system, and the talent played a part as he's never had a good reciever outside of Alge Crumpler
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wait are you saying Magic Johnson is black, has AIDS and has it better than ME?
Oh my God...I can't believe you actually brought up the "Vick plus other QB" backfield!!! I've been saying that shit for years, and none of my friends would buy into it!
Think about it...You put Schaub and Vick both in a shotgun formation, and after the snap, both guys pretend like they have the ball...Schaub rolls right and Vick rolls left, and the defense is confused as fuck...half the D follows Vick and half the D follows Schaub.
I also thought it was stupid that Mora tried to implement a West Coast offense. Vick has a strong arm and great feet, but poor accuracy. The West Coast offense is predicated on accuracy, so this scheme suits Vick very poorly. Sure, they gave him the opportunity to make plays with his feet (123 rushing attempts last season, for over 1000 yards), but when he dropped back to pass, the offense did not take advantage of his strengths
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Exactly, that's why it never really worked, a West Coast QB needs accuracy like Simon needs weed. And You NEED Smart WR's that can adjust to a defense. That's what it is, it's the QB and the WR both reading the defense. Vick never had a WR that could really read a Defense
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wait are you saying Magic Johnson is black, has AIDS and has it better than ME?
oh man, my mind is going crazy now thinking of plays you could run with Vick and Schaub in the backfield...
After the snap, you can have Vick run out into the flat, and Schaub could throw a lateral pass to him...if Vick has a lane to run he can take it, or throw deep to a streaking receiver.
Or, just occasionally send Vick out into pass patterns, as a decoy. If he gets WIDE open, you pass to him, otherwise, just hope he draws a defender and helps somebody else get open
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Exactly, that's why it never really worked, a West Coast QB needs accuracy like Simon needs weed. And You NEED Smart WR's that can adjust to a defense. That's what it is, it's the QB and the WR both reading the defense. Vick never had a WR that could really read a Defense
exactly
Also, one thing to keep in mind is that despite his inaccurate passing, Vick never really was a high-interception guy...which suggests that his problem wasnt reading defenses (since he wasn't throwing it to the other team). His problem was hitting his receivers, who either werent getting open or dropping passes when Vick put it on their hands
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All excellent points and I think it's more of a combination of all those factors that have lead to Vick's.. lets say.. underachieving status.
The Falcons didn't exactly have a standout WR either. They tried with Peerless Price but who knows why he didn't work out.. They drafted Jenkins who is pretty mediocre, they drafted that other guy.. who was it? White? He hasn't done anything yet and Ashlie Lelie has been a bust in the NFL as well.
Vick and Schaub were actually used together in certain formations last year. In fact, that's the main reason you're seeing green dots on the backs of quarterbacks' helmet this year -- so that referees can make sure only one player on the offense is receiving in-helmet audio from coaches. I don't recall if the Vick-Schaub plays had any success... and based on that, I'm assuming they didn't.
Second, Tom, Vick is actually a lot more interception-prone than you think; he just doesn't throw enough balls to make it clear. Consider than Brett Favre (1,760) attempted 664 more passes than Vick (1,096) in the past three years, good (or bad) enough for 1 INT every 27.5 attempts. Vick threw one every 28.84 attempts. Now compare that to Tom Brady (1 every 38 attempts), Drew Brees (1 every 44.06 attempts), and Peyton Manning's ridiculous 1 every 51.97 attempts. Vick is a turnover machine.
Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly that Vick has never been properly coached or utilized as a pro, but that's not to say he wasn't on some very well-coached football teams. I never got the feeling either that he worked very hard as a quarterback, whether it be learning how to lead a team or throw an accurate pass.
hmm...excellent point about the lack of pass attempts...I stupidly didnt think of that. I decided to do a little more research. Here are Vick's attempt per INT rate last season compared to the rest of the league:
Vick: 29.8
Eli Manning: 29.0
Peyton Manning: 61.9 (wow!!!)
Tom Brady: 43.0
Matt Hasselbeck: 24.7
Jon Kitna: 27.1
Brett Favre: 34.1
Tony Romo: 25.9
Ben Roethlisberger: 20.4
Steve McNair: 39.0
David Carr: 36.8
Drew Brees: 50.4
Jake Delhomme: 39.2
Vince Young: 27.5
Philip Rivers: 51.1
Rex Grossman: 24.0
JP Losman: 30.6
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