Giving Bonds some credit

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

Of course, none of you will agree that he's one of the best ever because of his attitude, which I don't get, there are a lot of asshole athletes out there doing worse shit then this guy, but lets take a moment to look at his career now that he's matched Hank Aaron at 755.

1st I'll start with his explosion in 2001 where he hit 73 home runs and then proceeded to lead the league in batting the following year and racked up many years of unbelievable statistics including over .800 slugging, over 200 walks, over .500 in on-base, etc..

Was he taking steroids or other enhancers? You have to believe he did, but how do we put that into what he's done here and say that without them he wouldn't have hit 755?

I believe Bonds would have hit 755 home runs with or without steroids and I'll tell you why. Every ball player that I've ever seen talk about Bonds..including Jeter, Papi, Tony Gwynn etc.. all say the same thing. Steroids doesn't help you hit the ball.

This explosion of his is more about the era and what baseball had become then anything.

Lets assume that Bonds was on something. How many pitchers has Bonds faced that were also on something? If you've looked into this steroid era, you would know that it's rediculous just how many people were using.. If it's fair for someone to say it about Bonds, then is it fair for me to say that Bonds has had home runs taken away from him because of using pitchers?

How about expansion? How about smaller ballparks? These are all factors here as to why Bonds might have exploded when he did.. He exploded with the era..

He's been hear the top of the game in every era he's played in.

A lot of people talk about how Bonds wasn't a home run hitter when he was younger which isn't accurate. Of course Bonds wasn't going to hit 60 home runs in 1991 but who did? Bonds prior to the steroid boom already had 3 MVP seasons and it should have been 4 as he was robbed in the voting one year. I bet a lot of you didn't know that Bonds ranked 3rd in the NL in home runs from 1986-92 just behind Strawberry and Dawson. Pretty good for a "skinny leadoff hitter" isn't it?

Now lets fast-forward to today. Bonds has hit 21 home runs, has an obp near .500 with 113 walks and he just turned 43!

I'd say he's pretty remarkable don't you think?

I can't stand it when people say "but he cheated the game, his records shouldn't count"..when they know nothing about the era or his career.

Invictus

[quote=Blade;419373]

I believe Bonds would have hit 755 home runs with or without steroids and I'll tell you why. Every ball player that I've ever seen talk about Bonds..including Jeter, Papi, Tony Gwynn etc.. all say the same thing. Steroids doesn't help you hit the ball.

[quote]

OK, I'm not as up on baseball as I am on the my NFL because baseball coverage over here sucks but every time I hear this argument when people talk about Bonds I have to say that although juicing up doesn't help you hit the ball, jucing up surely helps you spank the ball out of the park?

I'm sure there are a lot people who can hit a baseball but can't blast one out of the park.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

It's a fair point to make, but if you watched Bonds hit the ball, these aren't lazy fly balls that are somehow creeping over the fence. He's a line drive hitter and always has been.. he's always hit bullets, the difference is really not in the length as much as it is.. the awful watered down pitching, the smaller parks, etc..

You have to take into account that everyone hits 50 home runs these days. Why should Bonds be treated differently when he's always been the best player in the national league?

Shouldn't it give Bonds MORE cred because his position hasn't changed? He was the best then, he's still the best.. It's people like Brady Anderson or Luis Gonzalez that never did anything until this era..

Freak

Sure, Bonds has always been a line-drive hitter, but he only became the game's best home-run hitter in his late 30's, after he blew up to the size of a fucking mastodon.

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

So you're saying that Bonds is evil, he was playing unifair, and none of the pitchers he's faced ever used performance enhancers, nor the other hitters that have played in this era, and smaller ballparks, and watered down pitching didn't also play factors in any of this?

Of course, that's not what you're saying, but then again, I'm not really sure where any of you stand on this record or any of this man's achivements because the only thing I hear is "I can't fucking stand him"..

Look, I grew up a huge Bonds fan even when he was a Pirate, so I have more to say about this then most.

First of all, how is Bonds anymore of a prick then any other athlete? Ever see a Randy Johnson press conference? I don't get all this hate..

Secondly, how the hell was Roger Clemens still pitching to a sub 2.00 era at 100-years old?

3rd, How do we know players like A-Rod, Pujols, and Howard aren't on HGH?

This is the way I look at Bonds' record and tell me if you see something wrong with this..

He was the best player before the steroid era (3 MVP's, 500/500, GG's, etc..) and he was the best player during the stroid era (you know the numbers) and even now at 43 he's got an OBP near .500..

How can anyone sit here and say he isn't deserving of the record given the cicumstances?

I'm not condoning the steroids, I'm saying that everybody was using them and he sill outperformed them on a level playing field.

If I give 25 guys the same shit I'm taking, how is it different then none of us doing anything?

Suntan Superman

WC's Resident Samoan

Does it matter? A-Rod's going to shatter Bonds mark anyway, I'd venture 850-900 HR's in his career. I mean he's one of the best HR hitters I've ever seen

Dr. Giganto

Sports Moderator

I give Bonds plenty of credit. Without steroids, he probably would have hit 600-700 home runs, depending on how well his body held up.

As I've said in the past, steroids can't take some schmo off the street and make him the game's best hitter. But it CAN take a great player and help him put up some of the best numbers the game has ever seen.

And it's true that we can't know for sure if A-Rod, Pujols, Howard, etc. did steroids or are on HGH now. But none of those players were implicated in a federal investigation of a steroid-producing laboratory as Bonds was. That's the major difference.

It also doesn't help that he's been surly and kind of a dick his entire career, until revealing his softer side during the recent HR chase. It is our natural tendency to give the benefot of the doubt to nice guys who show remorse for their mistakes.

Guys who get voted off their own team for being such a gigantic dick (as Bonds was at AZ St.), fight with their own teammates in the dugout (as Bonds did with Jeff Kent...although Kent is probably just a big a dick as Bonds), and just generally act like an asshole don't get nearly as much leeway with the American public

Slimdust

ya look at T.O. The man last year put up more touchdowns then any other WR and still gets no respect.

PS3 Online Name: xJimmyx23

www.haulingkings.com

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

To me it doesn't matter as I believe every athlete is a dick or almost all of them, some just don't open their mouths.. I give Bonds and Owens credit for saying what they want, at least they aren't liars like A-Rod.. I mean, that guy HAS to be a complete asshole in real life, there's no way.. I've seen some incidents with media and fans that suggest it. I'm not all for being politically correct.

Plus, have you seen the guys who cover baseball these days? Most of them deserve to be treated like shit.

Lastly, I hear a lot of talk about this Bonds record and should there be an asterisk next to it.. Have people just lost their fucking minds?

Ok, lets take the D-Backs series win away then because Luis Gonzalez was on steroids. Lets take away the Yankees divison titles because Sheffield and Giambi were using. Lets take away the A's World Series because the whole team was juicing.

Look, until there's a test for HGH, I'm not buying anything.. A-Rod, Pujols, and Howard aren't exactly the smallest guys I've ever seen..

Bonds was the best player in baseball at 190lbs.

Dr. Giganto

Sports Moderator

I agree that most sportswriters are complete assholes

However, I disagree that all professional athletes are total assholes.

Look at all the great stories you hear about Cal Ripken. Although he wasn't a chump on the field by any means, he was considered a MUCH greater player than he really was, because he was such a good-hearted guy. From everything I've ever heard, Derek Jeter is a great guy. Johnny Damon too. I've never heard a single negative thing about David Ortiz concerning his off-the-field persona.

My cousin works for the NY Rangers, and he's given me some insight into which players were dicks (Messier, Lindros), and which guys were nice guys (Gretzky, Leetch, Graves). In fact, my cousin told me that last time he was up in Toronto with the team, Adam Graves invited him over to his house, and he spent the night drinking wine with Graves and his wife, talking about hockey, cracking jokes, etc.

Alonzo Mourning, considered one of the "dirtiest" players in recent NBA history, spends countless hours doing charity work, stuff that you never hear about, because we only hear about the negative things that athletes do.

Stephon Marbury gave more money than any other athlete to Hurricane Katrina charities. Then, after releasing a $15 pair of sneakers that he probably could have sold for $100, he donated $1 million each to the NYPD, FDNY, New York Board of Education, and EMT services. But, those million-dollar donations only got a small mention in the NY newspapers.

It's not the case that all athletes are dicks, and some just choose to hide it. There are plenty of legitimately nice guys in sports. It's up to them how they want to act, and if they're going to act like a dick, then they have to be willing to accept the consequences. Bonds spent the bulk of his career being a dick, and now he has to lie in the bed he made for himself.

And, going back to T.O., his supposed "telling it like it is" is not that whatsoever. He says things to the detriment of his own team, in order to make himself look better, which is not the way it should be done.