Giving Bonds some credit

Dr. Giganto

oh, and I also dont think there should be any sort of asterisk or anything like that. The record is broken, what's done is done, let's move on.

And hopefully, baseball learned its lesson, and tries to nip any other problems in the bud before they become huge nation-wide scandals, instead of just ignoring it.

And, lastly, I hope the Players Union learns from all this b.s. They fought tooth and nail for years to prevent steroid testing, despite the fact that it would have been beneficial to the athletes it supposedly represents. So, when player's have to deal with all this bullshit from the media and its fans, just remember that the player's union could have prevented this years ago by agreeing to drug testing

Gregg Easterbrook from espn.com had a great article yesterday talking about how the NFL Player's union's willingness to cooperate with management has led to huge increases in player pay and retirement benefits. Butting heads with management may look productive, and make it seem like you're doing what's best for your constituents, but it really is not all that productive. Both sides get more out of cooperation on amicable terms, than constantly being at war.

Fuck the MLBPA...

Slimdust

ya i agree on I dont think there should be a asterisk next to him. It sucks that the record was broken the way it was, but its not only his fault, its the era he played in and we know he was not the only one, so we know the dude can hit because why wasnt anyone else hitting 70 home runs?

It is what it is, I will just go for A-Rod.

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

See, here's another point. I know all the stuff you mentioned about Marbury but what do the writers spend their time on? His tats and he supposed selfish play. Bullshit. He might score 20 points a game at the point, but he hits you with 8 or 9 dimes. The writers never want to write anything positive. Controversy sells, so that's what we're going to get.

And when did steroids all of a sudden become this magical fucking potion that allows you to break Hank Aaron's record? Bonds is the only one that broke the record and it's not because of steroids, it's because baseball changed dramatically from the time Bonds was a rookie and it made him even harder to pitch to then before.

Ask all the players. Steroids don't do a whole lot is what they all say. This is coming from guys like Jeter and A-Rod too.. Your Yankee homies.

Finally, how many homers do you think Bonds would have hit without juice? Would he have broken the record? I think it's not entirely impossible but even if he didn't he'd be up there at 660 with his Godfather Willie Mays. I'd say that's some good company to be in.

Dr. Giganto

Bonds is the only one who broke the record because he was the only one that was one of the top 5 players of all-time BEFORE using them.

We keep going in circles here. you keep saying "Why hasnt anyone else broke the record?" And I keep explaining why...

As for the A-Rod/Jeter comments (which I've personally never heard, but whatever...)of course they're going to say that. They're baseball players. They're going to defend their profession, and stick up for their fellow ballplayer. Plus, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they did it too. And if they did, and they get caught, then they have to be willing to deal with the same bullshit that Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire, etc have dealt with. If you're going to do the crime, you have to be willing to suffer the consequences.

Also, I think it's very naive to think that steroids don't help you play baseball. They make you stronger and make you recover from injuries faster. Of course it makes you a better baseball player. When you're stronger, you hit the ball harder. Warning track flyballs turn into homeruns. Weak groundballs become scorchers. Softliners become screamers. It doesn't take much understanding of chemistry, biology, or physics to see that steroids would help an athlete perform. Hence why they're called "performance-enhancing"

And lastly, as I said earlier, I think Bonds would certainly have passed 600 home runs, and maybe would have been knocking on 700's door. But no way in hell he breaks Hank Aaron's record without steroids

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

If that's the way you feel about it, then what do you think of him now? He's 43, he didn't test positive in the testing policy, he has 23 home runs (just hit another tonight) and his OBP is around .500.. If he didn't already have well over a 100 walks this year and take days off he'd probably be right up there close to A-Rod in the lead for homers again. A-Rod has an OBP of .405 with 66 walks.

Suntan Superman

WC's Resident Samoan

Ok I'm posting this before I do the math... Bonds averages pre-2001(the year he hit 73) 33 Hr's per year in 22 seasons of play multiplied by 33 HRs is 724 HR's, so it is to me at least viable he could've broken the record But Tom is right, It'd be hard with his averages to break Hank's record, but hey he would've still beaten Ruth

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

You are also assuming that he'd be fit as hell late in his career, but that's my point.. He's 43 and is still arguably one of the top 5 or 6 players in the game.

Are we supposed to just assume that he's on HGH and totally dismiss these stats?

Suntan Superman

WC's Resident Samoan

Well, him and A-Rod use HGH, so I think they should get an asterisk, Also Babe Ruth should get an asterisk as the pitching mound was lower and balls were easier to see as they were pitched










/end sarcasm

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

And Ruth didn't have to face Pedro Martinez or Bob Gibson because they weren't allowed to play back then and he also didn't have to face specialty relievers or anyone who threw a slider..

Ok, I'm not here to rip on Ruth lol.. I understand his greatness and yeah, the pitching too.

Suntan Superman

WC's Resident Samoan

Again, I was merely playing the asterisk card as some people would like to. And as I said in the SB, isn't amazing 26% of Bonds' hits are homeruns?