About Stats and Hall of Fame Induction

pp2

Carrying this over from the other thread.

Ok Blitz, I guess the point D and I are trying to make is that the game changes. I think its fair to consider the 80s a different era of baseball as it was before the juiced balls and players of the 90s and current decade. Anyway, as the game changes so does the benchmark for what is considered to be solid statistics. Plus statistics alone don't make for a great player.

I'm going to list some career stats for unnamed players and I would like others to tell me whether or not they think they are HoF material. I'll fill in who they belong to later.

Mystery Player #1
19 years in MLB
Avg: .285
HR: 358
RBI: 1430
SB: 30
Fld % .988

Mystery Player #2
19 years in MLB
Avg: .262
HR: 28
RBI: 793
SB: 580
Fld %: .978

Mystery Player #3
10 years in MLB
Avg: .311
HR: 137
RBI: 734
SB: 197
Fld %: .983

Mystery Player #4
21 years in MLB
AVG: .305
HR: 317
RBI: 1595
SB: 201
Fld %: .970

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

Excellent thread PP2...I swear I was going to do something similar to this, when we were chatting. Great minds...

Anyway, I do agree for the most part that stats aren't everything in baseball, but I will try my best and list Yes or No next to each canidates name..This will be fun.




Mystery Player #1 Yes...batting stats are good and an excellent Fld % get him in.
19 years in MLB
Avg: .285
HR: 358
RBI: 1430
SB: 30
Fld % .988

Mystery Player #2 No...problem is, I think it's Ozzie Smith..guy was clutch and revolutionized his position...so he would be in if I knew for sure. So, there is where stats get thrown out. If it's not Ozzie though, screw him..lol
19 years in MLB
Avg: .262
HR: 28
RBI: 793
SB: 580
Fld %: .978

Mystery Player #3 Yes...I think I know who this is, but I'm not positive.
10 years in MLB
Avg: .311
HR: 137
RBI: 734
SB: 197
Fld %: .983

Mystery Player #4 Based on these stats I say NO, but it will prolly bite me in the ass somehow..21 years and those stats, I call a compiler.
21 years in MLB
AVG: .305
HR: 317
RBI: 1595
SB: 201
Fld %: .970

pp2

Ha! Great minds indeed!

Ok, for number 3...do you say yes because you think you know who it is (who do you think btw?), or because the stats merit entry?

Also, the stats for #1 are very similar to Ryne Sandberg's.

Here's one more for you, then I'll throw out the answers. Does the following player have what it takes for the MLB HoF?

17 years in MLB
AVG: .266
HR: 462
RBI: 1407
SB: 200
Fld %: .971

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

Hmm...good point about the stats comparable to Sandberg..With Sandberg, I was sitting there looking for the monster seasons and I couldn't find many, but when you look at the career totals..it does tell a different story.


Yes..I was saying the guy is in because I thought I knew who it was, but not based on his career totals. He only played 10 seasons, but if it's who I think it is, I treat him like I would treat Gale Sayers in football.


Finally, I say No..on the 5th player. Once again there may be something about him that didn't show up in the stats, and the 462 homers are impressive but I don't like guys with a .260 career average unless there is something else really special about him..

One other point about Sandberg that I mentioned...whether he deservers to be in or not for some people is debatable, just ask the HOF voters, but a point I was trying to make is...How does baseball now treat a guy like Jeff Kent who won an MVP and is going to dwarf Ryno's stats? Cuz I've watched Kent his whole career and I don't see a Hall of Famer out there...I just see a good player.

pp2

I think with Kent its going to come down to intangibles. Sandberg had them in the fact that he was a dominating force and a clutch player. Kent is a cracker and I don't like him either, but his numbers are very good. But you also need to figure in the era he's played in...between steroids, juiced balls, and expansion those numbers are inflated, as are the numbers of many players from the last 15 years.

I'd like to see a conversion method figured out to translate the stats between eras into something universal. I know its not possible, but it would be nice.

On another note, I was looking over the list of all the players in the HoF for MLB. Its not as many as I thought, but there are people in there that I don't think belong there based on "intangible" stuff...as in, when you say their name do you think "great player"? Which is what your point was pretty much, so we're on the same page there at least. I mean really...Dave Winfield? Here's the list: http://baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmem.shtml

I also PMed you the names to the above players. I'll give it a day or so and let some others look at it before I put names with the stats.

Blitzkrieg

Administrator

I don't remember much about Gary Carter's career...was he really that good to be on such a list? I know he's a catcher but still..



One guy also that I don't really like...I grew up hating him because I heard his name so much was Wade Boggs. Now, I'm not saying he wasn't great, he's got the 3,000 hits and all, but I never treated him like he was among the elite in the league.

Thoughts?

Necro

VIP Room Moderator

Wade Boggs was a pretty awsome player, true he hit tons of singles, and was a complete fucking dick. But if you reach 3,000 hits, and have a 328 batting average you are gona get in the hall of fame...

Dr. Giganto

Sports Moderator

Gary Carter's a definite Hall of Famer

Also, as far as Kent/Sandberg is concerned, Sandberg is superior defensively, plus he made almost three times as many All-Star games as Kent (I believe Kent has gone 4 times, compared to ryno's 10).

also, in the 80's, there werent many "superstars" in baseball, but I certainly think Sandberg was one of them, or at least close.

I mean, its the same reason why i think Don Mattingly at least warrants considering (I dont think he gets in though). They both stood out among their peers. Kent does not stand out among his peers (well, maybe among second basemen, but not the league in total)

pp2

You guys have any thoughts on the stats listed above, or should I just go ahead and say who the "mystery players" are?

Dr. Giganto

Sports Moderator

are they all hall of famers?