Pudge vs. Piazza

Dr. Giganto · 11-09-2006, 04:53 PM

This generated quite a bit of debate in that other thread, so I figure it warrants its own thread.

Here are the offensive stats

Piazza: .309/.379/.551, .930 OPS, 419 HRs, 1291 RBIs, 327 2Bs, 1052 Ks

Rodriguez: .304/.342/.437, .779 OPS, 277 HRs, 1119 RBIs, 473 2Bs, 1125 Ks

Note: Pudge has about 800 more plate appearances, in almost 200 more games

Obviously, Piazza is the better hitter. Unfortunately, defensive metrics are unreliable, so it's hard to quantify the value of Pudge's defense.

Baseballprospectus.com's Fielding Runs Above Replacement stat has Pudge at 585 runs, and Piazza at 173, which means that they view Pudge as about 3 times as valuable defensively than Piazza.

They have a stat called WARP3, which estimates how many wins above a AAA call-up a player has contributed. It takes into account offense, defence, base-stealing, home ballpark (hitter's park or pitcher's park), and a few other factors. Pudge's WARP3 is 120.2, Piazza's is 97.5. Also, WARP3 is a cumulative stat, so Piazza could potentially narrow the gap if he plays longer than Pudge.

Of course, those stats need to be taken with a grain of salt. But, I'll say in conclusion that they are both awesome catchers, and maybe Pudge gets a slight edge because the defensive difference is much bigger than the offensive difference. But, Piazza was definitely awesome in his prime

Slim · 11-09-2006, 04:56 PM

It is Pudge.

If you are talkign about a catcher, pudge is good all around. He can get you with his bat and with his glove. So what pudge does not have as many homeruns. Homeruns do not make the player unless that is all you can do. Pudge can hit the long ball, but he is a base hitter and for me I think base hitters are better.

Not to mention that if you are running against pudge, you dont dare to lead off big or steal. He almost always guns you down.

JP · 11-09-2006, 05:00 PM

Pude does have the all around look over Piazza just becuase Pudge has a rocket of a arm and throws out most runners who that the balls to run againest him, but I do see that is the only defensive thing he has againest piazza becuase I see piazza stoping pass balls or blocking the plate like a pro or even calling a hell of a game. You can not call me wrong there becuase that is all true, I am giving out what advantage Pudge has on Piazza and what the rest is completly even.

Offense wise we all now Piazza is the best hitting catcher ever to play the game and no one can argue againest that and if you do it shows you dont know basball to argue that kinda statement.

I have Piazza over Pudge just by a inch.

Slim · 11-09-2006, 05:04 PM

Home run wise, yes Piazza is better. But baseball is far more complex then just homeruns.

JP · 11-09-2006, 05:05 PM

It might be more complex but not when you are talking about a clean up hitter who is supposed to be the big RBI and Homerun kinda hitter. Once he got into his prime till a year ago he didn't know what batting 6 meant and he was to good for that spot in the line up where Pudge bats all over the place forcing new roles.

Slim · 11-09-2006, 05:13 PM

Pudge does his job, and that is getting on base.

Pudge was also the first catcher to join the 20/20 club I believe. He stole 20 bases and hit 20 homers in one season.

Usually catchers are slow as piazza *cough* I mean dirt.

JP · 11-09-2006, 06:20 PM

Mike Piazza does his job, and that is to be the leader of the offense.

Piazza also broke the homerun record carlton fisk set long before he in the pros, I dont see Pudge breaking a record like that anyday soon.

Last time I checked catches would hit homers like Piazza could.

Slim · 11-09-2006, 06:23 PM

all you have is home runs. I told you baseball is more then homeruns.

Pudge is simply a better player all around.

If they were to go head to head in a home run derby, then sure, piazza wins.

JP · 11-09-2006, 06:29 PM

Seems like you dont understand it, I have brought every stat to prove Piazza is a overall better offense player and you some how seem to bring up Defense everytime.

Realize all you can say is he has a better arm than Piazza...nothing else.

Further more if you disagree bring me some evidence beside documentation stating he won the gold glove winner.